Urgent help needed: can't switch off PC

  • Thread starter Thread starter Terry Pinnell
  • Start date Start date
T

Terry Pinnell

I installed a 4-socket self-powered USB hub today on my XP Home PC. My
various USB devices seemed to work OK (with exception of the new one,
a QX3 microscope, that had prompted the purchase, but that's a
separate issue). Here's a picture of it:
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/USBHub.jpg

But, on switching off my PC, which seemed to power down as usual, the
amber and green power lights on the Mesh Athlon 1800 didn't go out.
And the PC wouldn't then respond to being switched on again. Nor did
Reset have any effect. Nor holding the power button depressed. Serious
worry and seems to defy logic.

The power lights would go out if I removed either the DC power to the
hub, or the USB lead connecting it to the PC. But even then the PC
wouldn't start up again. Removing and replacing mains plug, or on/off
button at rear of PC had no effect either

Somehow, after fiddling around, cursing a bit, it DID then respond.
But naturally I am now very nervous about switching it off. Using
Start>Turn Off Computer>Restart works OK - it's just the full Turn Off
that doesn't.

There's nothing to help in the single page 'User Manual' (headed USB
1.1 Hub GUH-01 GUH-02, with no contact or web info.

Can anyone offer any help please?
 
Don't think it is the USB. Sounds like something is loose. Is your power
cable tight? Might be power supply dying or on button.
Plug it in and see if it happens again.
 
I installed a 4-socket self-powered USB hub today on my XP Home PC. My
various USB devices seemed to work OK (with exception of the new one,
a QX3 microscope, that had prompted the purchase, but that's a
separate issue). Here's a picture of it:
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/USBHub.jpg

But, on switching off my PC, which seemed to power down as usual, the
amber and green power lights on the Mesh Athlon 1800 didn't go out.
And the PC wouldn't then respond to being switched on again. Nor did
Reset have any effect. Nor holding the power button depressed. Serious
worry and seems to defy logic.

The power lights would go out if I removed either the DC power to the
hub, or the USB lead connecting it to the PC. But even then the PC
wouldn't start up again. Removing and replacing mains plug, or on/off
button at rear of PC had no effect either

Somehow, after fiddling around, cursing a bit, it DID then respond.
But naturally I am now very nervous about switching it off. Using
Start>Turn Off Computer>Restart works OK - it's just the full Turn Off
that doesn't.

There's nothing to help in the single page 'User Manual' (headed USB
1.1 Hub GUH-01 GUH-02, with no contact or web info.

Can anyone offer any help please?
Click to expand...

Yer not gonna solve the problem if you don't start experimenting...and
post the results here.


Have a nice week...

Trent

If the cheese isn't yours...its Nacho cheese, man!
 
Tj said:
Don't think it is the USB. Sounds like something is loose. Is your power
cable tight? Might be power supply dying or on button.
Plug it in and see if it happens again.
Click to expand...

Thanks, but it consistently happens only when the USB hub is powered.
After removing the DC supply plug from the USB hub, I can switch off
the PC fully as normal.

In fact, that's what I'm going to do for the time being, because I
can't get the device (for which I bought the powered hub) to work
anyway. It's a 'Digital Blue QX3 Computer Microscope', and, after
installing software and drivers from its CD, refuses to communicate
with my XP PC ;-[
 
Tj said:
Don't think it is the USB. Sounds like something is loose. Is your power
cable tight? Might be power supply dying or on button.
Plug it in and see if it happens again.
Click to expand...

Thanks, but it consistently happens only when the USB hub is powered.
After removing the DC supply plug from the USB hub, I can switch off
the PC fully as normal.

In fact, that's what I'm going to do for the time being, because I
can't get the device (for which I bought the powered hub) to work
anyway. It's a 'Digital Blue QX3 Computer Microscope', and, after
installing software and drivers from its CD, refuses to communicate
with my XP PC ;-[
Click to expand...

It may be the microscope that's keepin' the computer from workin'
properly.

Here's my suggestions...in order of preference...

1. Take the hub back. Get a PCI USB 2.0 card. Make sure you can
find room for one on your computer.

You can get one that has 2 ports on the card...to access in the back
of the computer. It also has 4 internal ports...and comes with a
tray that fits in front of the computer...in a free floppy bay. That
way, you'll have 6 high-speed USB connections...and you won't hafta
fool around with that hub.

2. Connect the microscope directly to the computer...and connect the
hub to the other USB port...and anything else to the hub. Some
devices just don't like hubs for some reason.

You might want to re-install any necessary software for the
microscope.

Good luck.


Have a nice week...

Trent

If the cheese isn't yours...its Nacho cheese, man!
 
Trent© said:
It may be the microscope that's keepin' the computer from workin'
properly.

Here's my suggestions...in order of preference...

1. Take the hub back. Get a PCI USB 2.0 card. Make sure you can
find room for one on your computer.

You can get one that has 2 ports on the card...to access in the back
of the computer. It also has 4 internal ports...and comes with a
tray that fits in front of the computer...in a free floppy bay. That
way, you'll have 6 high-speed USB connections...and you won't hafta
fool around with that hub.

2. Connect the microscope directly to the computer...and connect the
hub to the other USB port...and anything else to the hub. Some
devices just don't like hubs for some reason.

You might want to re-install any necessary software for the
microscope.
Click to expand...

Thanks Trent. But I now reckon the power problem (as opposed to the
microscope problem) is a fundamental design issue, caused because the
arrangement must look like this:

External
5V supply
|
|
diode \/
--
| USB DC supply bus
|_____________________________
|
|
|
/\ diode
--
|
|
Internal
5V supply


The same behaviour occurred when I connected the powered USB hub to my
alternative W98 PC in my shed/workshop. It's incredible that the
manufacturer makes no mention of this fundamental flaw in the
accompanying sheet ('User manual'!)

I side-stepped the problem by removing the USB DC supply before using
Turn Off. In fact, I've now removed the powered hub altogether, as I
can't get the device (Digital Blue QX3 microscope) working on my XP PC
anyway, with or without it. And, after much effort and totally
inconsistent behaviour, I have got it working on my W98 PC, without
the hub.

=========================

On the microscope issue, elsewhere (the asus mobo newsgroup) I had a
post advising that sw doesn't work on XP. Which if so is a revelation!
I had given suppliers, Digital Blue, a detailed description of what
was happening on my XP PC, and they didn't so much as mention any of
those key points. In particular, no suggestion that sw doesn't RUN on
XP...

I had mixed success on my alternative W98 PC. I did get it running on
Saturday, after several hours involving half a dozen installation
attempts. But then when I tried Sunday it failed. Again it was that
'Having trouble communicating' message, as on XP, interspersed with
messages telling me microscope wasn't connected, when it plainly was.
I then tried with a self-powered USB hub I'd ordered specially, but
that gave no more joy.

Then, suddenly, late yesterday afternoon, it started working. No idea
how or why. I had done nothing special. It was just one more desultory
attempt (connected to one of the direct USB sockets, not to the
powered hub, although I suspect that's irrelevant.) I expected it to
then fail next time I booted/reran. But so far, over several repeat
runs yesterday, it still ran OK. Of course, when I try TODAY, that
might be back to square one again. Go figure...
 
On the microscope issue, elsewhere (the asus mobo newsgroup) I had a
post advising that sw doesn't work on XP.
Click to expand...

Like in any other group, you'll sometimes have someone give you advice
who doesn't know what the hell he's talkin' about. If you do a Google
search, you'll see that that is the case here.
Which if so is a revelation!
I had given suppliers, Digital Blue, a detailed description of what
was happening on my XP PC, and they didn't so much as mention any of
those key points. In particular, no suggestion that sw doesn't RUN on
XP...
Click to expand...

That's because it does run on XP.
I had mixed success on my alternative W98 PC. I did get it running on
Saturday, after several hours involving half a dozen installation
attempts. But then when I tried Sunday it failed. Again it was that
'Having trouble communicating' message, as on XP, interspersed with
messages telling me microscope wasn't connected, when it plainly was.
I then tried with a self-powered USB hub I'd ordered specially, but
that gave no more joy.

Then, suddenly, late yesterday afternoon, it started working. No idea
how or why. I had done nothing special. It was just one more desultory
attempt (connected to one of the direct USB sockets, not to the
powered hub, although I suspect that's irrelevant.)
Click to expand...

That's not irrelevant at ALL. That's the ISSUE...as I mentioned in my
first post. Some devices don't like being connected to the hub...they
must be connected directly to the computer. Obviously, the microscope
is one of those devices.
I expected it to
then fail next time I booted/reran. But so far, over several repeat
runs yesterday, it still ran OK. Of course, when I try TODAY, that
might be back to square one again. Go figure...
Click to expand...

Glad to hear you solved the problem.


Have a nice week...

Trent

If the cheese isn't yours...its Nacho cheese, man!
 
Trent© said:
Like in any other group, you'll sometimes have someone give you advice
who doesn't know what the hell he's talkin' about. If you do a Google
search, you'll see that that is the case here.


That's because it does run on XP.
Click to expand...

I agree some users do seem to run OK on XP, so you're right. Perhaps
the word 'reliably' was implied by that other responent? Anyway, I
still don't have it running on *my* XP PC!
That's not irrelevant at ALL. That's the ISSUE...as I mentioned in my
first post. Some devices don't like being connected to the hub...they
must be connected directly to the computer. Obviously, the microscope
is one of those devices.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you misunderstood me. I had tried it on the direct hub *many*
times previously, in vain. It may well have sprung to life with the
powered hub too. There should be no difference apart from a slightly
longer cable length for the signal; current requirement in particular
should be satisfied in both cases.
Glad to hear you solved the problem.


Have a nice week...
Click to expand...

Thanks for you help.
 
Perhaps you misunderstood me. I had tried it on the direct hub *many*
times previously, in vain. It may well have sprung to life with the
powered hub too. There should be no difference apart from a slightly
longer cable length for the signal; current requirement in particular
should be satisfied in both cases.
Click to expand...

Its not a matter of power. Its a matter of addresses...and the way
the code is written by the manufacturer to find the appliance address.


Have a nice week...

Trent

If the cheese isn't yours...its Nacho cheese, man!
 
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