UPS questions

  • Thread starter Thread starter Adam Russell
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Adam Russell

I was told (by someone who should know) that I should buy a UPS to protect
my computer from damage due to brownouts. He sent me to the APC website and
said I could find what I needed there. So I used their how-to-choose tool,
and found one and went to frys and got it. When I got home the guy told me
it wasnt good enough. He says I needed something over 1000W since I have a
1kW power supply in the computer. But the high end home model UPS on the
APC site is less than half that (model LS 700 is 410W). Even the highest
wattage business model is only 865W. Is he pulling my leg? Also he said
that when I plugged into the 330W model that I got at frys I may have
damaged the computer. Is this true?
 
Adam Russell said:
I was told (by someone who should know) that I should buy a UPS to protect
my computer from damage due to brownouts. He sent me to the APC website
and said I could find what I needed there. So I used their how-to-choose
tool, and found one and went to frys and got it. When I got home the guy
told me it wasnt good enough. He says I needed something over 1000W since
I have a 1kW power supply in the computer. But the high end home model UPS
on the APC site is less than half that (model LS 700 is 410W). Even the
highest wattage business model is only 865W. Is he pulling my leg? Also
he said that when I plugged into the 330W model that I got at frys I may
have damaged the computer. Is this true?
Click to expand...

I have 2 computers
- Barton XP 3200, ATI 9800XT, 2 stick of ddr, 3 HD, and a 400W power supply
a the first pc which is OC and water cooled using a Eheim 1250 pump (28W);
and
- Core 2 duo 6300 overclocked about 10% more with 8600GTS and 500W power
supply also slightly OC with 2 DDR2 sticks and 2 HD's;
- 17' CRT monitor connect by KVM;
- speaker, cable modem, WIFI

Can't say how much all this consumes but my UPS never goes beyond 50%-60%
capacity. I have an APC Smart UPS 750XL. This UPS has 600W of output
capacity thus all the stuff plugged into it consumes around 300W-350W. So
All I can say on my side is that I doubt that you need a 1000W UPS for only
one computer. That is unless your pc consumes all 1000W of the power supply
capacity which i doubt. Even if all your pc components were running at 100%,
i wonder if your pc would even reach anywhere close to 1000W. However, I
wonder if your sales person did not mean VA (volt-amps) instead.

Also I must say that a crt screen requires a heavy load on power on or when
performing a degauss, if all my components are running and I turn on the
screen afterwards or do a degauss, the UPS with dislike the heavy load and
will indicate an overload. However, it goes back to normal within 1 second
or 2. Thus, maybe my config would require a UPS with more VA (volt-amps) but
again, All i do is turn on the monitor before turning on a second PC first
and never bother with a degauss anyways. LCD monitors might not have this
issue if I'm not mistaken as they consume less power.

Hope this helps
 
Best Buy sells a 1500 VA UPS. This is puny compared to commercial UPSs.
The best way to tell how big a UPS you need is to measure the power that it actually used; you will need an ammeter to do this. The UPS should be rated for at least twice the wattage (not VA) that the computer uses, four times if you want decent run time.
A properly designed UPS will not damage a computer (not any more than a power failure). If the output voltage of the UPS drops too low it should shut down.
 
Adam Russell said:
I was told (by someone who should know) that I should buy a UPS to protect
my computer from damage due to brownouts. He sent me to the APC website and
said I could find what I needed there. So I used their how-to-choose tool,
and found one and went to frys and got it. When I got home the guy told me
it wasnt good enough. He says I needed something over 1000W since I have a
1kW power supply in the computer. But the high end home model UPS on the
APC site is less than half that (model LS 700 is 410W). Even the highest
wattage business model is only 865W. Is he pulling my leg? Also he said
that when I plugged into the 330W model that I got at frys I may have
damaged the computer. Is this true?
Click to expand...

I don't see how your computer could get damaged, but a safe
way to proceed might be to buy a Kill-a-Watt watt meter at
(for example):
http://www.amazon.com/P3-International-Kill-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU
and measure the actual power draw of your computer. Often the
actual power draw is far less than the sum of the wattages given
for the components (which are usually maximums).

Once you know the actual power draw, you can better make a
judgment about your UPS.

-- Bob Day
http://bobday.vze.com
 
i own a bank,and i know how important ups is to every bank,usually we
equipt our bank with two diffierent styles of electiric power,but
nothing is impossible,we can not guess what will happen next,2yers
ago,my bank will have some issues with some other banks on accounts
transfer or something the same,usually it was caused by the power
shut,so our computer lost every information on the line,so i suggest u
have a ups for ur computer if ur work needs to .it is a must for u to
do that.
http//www.xowow.com
 
I was told (by someone who should know) that I should buy a UPS to protect
my computer from damage due to brownouts.
Click to expand...

No, that is just the wrong information.

A line conditioner is used to protect against brownouts, not
an UPS. However, some of the better quality UPS are an
online type, so they are regulating an output from onboard
supply continuously and that could be enough during a
brownout moderate enough in depression, providing the UPS is
also suitably high in current capability.

It's a bit of a side-step though, to think in terms of an
UPS like this as it is a lot of extra wasted money unless
you actually needed only a short duration until you could
safely power down the system.



He sent me to the APC website and
said I could find what I needed there. So I used their how-to-choose tool,
and found one and went to frys and got it. When I got home the guy told me
it wasnt good enough. He says I needed something over 1000W since I have a
1kW power supply in the computer.
Click to expand...

Based on the info you have provided, the guy has no idea
what he's talking about.

Perhaps you should just back up and supply all relevant
info. What is this computer, exactly, with the 1KW PSU in
it? What exactly is the requirement, the grid anomoly in
voltage depression and duration that you need to correct.
Are you expecting the system to run all day during a
brownout?

But the high end home model UPS on the
APC site is less than half that (model LS 700 is 410W). Even the highest
wattage business model is only 865W. Is he pulling my leg?
Click to expand...

Just ignore him and start by supplying all relevant facts,
here. Remember, you don't want an UPS to run through a
brownout, you want a line conditioner, and for any "$x" you
will get a better line conditioner if a large part of that
budget isn't spent on the UPS as well... but maybe you
"need" an UPS too, require both different functions.



Also he said
that when I plugged into the 330W model that I got at frys I may have
damaged the computer. Is this true?
Click to expand...

That 330W is not likely to be an online type, just running
through it's outlets will not do anything of harm. IF/when
the power drops below the UPS' threshold to switch on, at
that point if your plugged in devices consumed too much
current it could cause the UPS to switch off (usually
immediately, but in some cases it might be a certain event
later, like if you were trying to run a laser printer that
would tend to happen when the printer tried to heat the
fuser).

There should be no damage but thus far everything this guy
has told you has been wrong. Just start over as if he'd
told you nothing yet.
 
i own a bank,and i know how important ups is to every bank,usually we
equipt our bank with two diffierent styles of electiric power,but
Click to expand...

<snip>

No wonder the economy is doing so well.

<sigh>
 
Adam said:
I was told (by someone who should know) that I should buy a UPS to protect
my computer from damage due to brownouts. He sent me to the APC website and
Click to expand...

Buy the biggest and heaviest UPS for your system. I will cost at least
three times more than you are expecting to pay...
 
kony said:
No, that is just the wrong information.
Click to expand...

<lotta good info snipped>
Ok thanks, thats about what I thought but I needed to check. This was the
tech support guy at the place I bought this computer, and I think he was
just trying to find a way to make me think it was my fault the computer went
bad.
 
Adam said:
I was told (by someone who should know) that I should buy a UPS to protect
my computer from damage due to brownouts. He sent me to the APC website and
said I could find what I needed there. So I used their how-to-choose tool,
and found one and went to frys and got it. When I got home the guy told me
it wasnt good enough. He says I needed something over 1000W since I have a
1kW power supply in the computer. But the high end home model UPS on the
APC site is less than half that (model LS 700 is 410W). Even the highest
wattage business model is only 865W. Is he pulling my leg? Also he said
that when I plugged into the 330W model that I got at frys I may have
damaged the computer. Is this true?
Click to expand...

What sort of computer is this with a 1KW power supply in it? There are
only two manufacturers that make such a beast and one of those only
started selling it within the past couple of months. Look at a price of
$400+ for such a power supply all by itself. I'll wager that this
"someone who should know" has no clue as to how big a UPS you should
have. You need a UPS big enough to support your computer and your
monitor for a short period during a power failure and the rating of your
power supply says nothing about how much power it is actually drawing. I
have a relatively big computer with 2tB worth of hard drives, an
overclocked processor, and moderate graphics system that, together with
its 17" LCD monitor draws a grand total of ~200W. And realistically that
is how much the UPS needs to supply. The 600W APC it is plugged into is
far more than it will ever need.
 
What sort of computer is this with a 1KW power supply in it? There are
only two manufacturers that make such a beast and one of those only
started selling it within the past couple of months.
Click to expand...

Don't forget about larger servers, one of the more typical
types of systems where it might be more important, and more
common, to include brownout power, problem preventative
measures.



Look at a price of
$400+ for such a power supply all by itself. I'll wager that this
"someone who should know" has no clue as to how big a UPS you should
have. You need a UPS big enough to support your computer and your
monitor for a short period during a power failure and the rating of your
power supply says nothing about how much power it is actually drawing. I
have a relatively big computer with 2tB worth of hard drives, an
overclocked processor, and moderate graphics system that, together with
its 17" LCD monitor draws a grand total of ~200W. And realistically that
is how much the UPS needs to supply. The 600W APC it is plugged into is
far more than it will ever need.
Click to expand...


True but a brownout isn't necessarily a short-term event,
going with the 600W UPS if the voltage is low enough for it
to kick in, you still won't have an hour of runtime (with
any typical APC unit at least, there's probably something
industrial that would do the job though in such cases a
generator is a more likely solution).
 
kony said:
Don't forget about larger servers, one of the more typical
types of systems where it might be more important, and more
common, to include brownout power, problem preventative
measures.






True but a brownout isn't necessarily a short-term event,
going with the 600W UPS if the voltage is low enough for it
to kick in, you still won't have an hour of runtime (with
any typical APC unit at least, there's probably something
industrial that would do the job though in such cases a
generator is a more likely solution).
Click to expand...

What I look for now is a UPS with 1) surge protection 2) AVR (brownout
protection) 3) at least 15 minutes of power during a blackout (this will
depend on the power draw and the UPS battery capacity) and 4) enough
smarts to shut down the computer gracefully before the UPS batteries
give out. I just received a relatively inexpensive CyberPower unit today
that will support my "downstairs" computer, LCD, and an outboard USB
drive for about 20 minutes. Something like $130 including shipping. I
picked up a couple of smaller refurbished units made by the same company
a couple of years ago and they are still working fine. Of course that
doesn't mean that every one of their UPSs will be trouble free...

In my former job we used some big Toshiba online UPS units that weighed
at least 120 pounds and came with wheels. Rated at 1400W and they really
meant it because the technicians in the shop used to plug a heat gun
into them as a test load and they would keep that 1300W load going for
an impressively long time. They typically powered some largish AT&T
3B2-type servers we had. I'd love to pick up one of those surplus
sometime but sure wouldn't want to pay full price for one.
 
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