Upgrade issues not yet discussed?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Colin Barnhorst
  • Start date Start date
C

Colin Barnhorst

I am starting a thread to discuss an as yet untested upgrade scenario. All
of the upgrade scenarios tried to date with Vista in both TechBeta and CPP
have been upgrades to running operating systems, either XP or an earlier
build of Vista. MS has not yet released a beta build that is an upgrade
only build. All of them have been full editions. So I'd like to speculate.

(Note: Upgrading with Vista is different from previous versions of Windows
in that all upgrades to Vista are actually clean installations of Vista. A
traditional, XP style, "clean installation" in Vista is called a "Custom
Installation." The difference is whether or not you are keeping your
programs and files in place or having to reinstall everything.)

What I am talking about here is an upgrade sku. What will Vista Upgrade
editions do?

For those who have forgotten, all retail XP editions can do both a clean
installation or an upgrade. The only difference between the Upgrade and
full editions is that the Upgrade installer checks for a qualifying previous
edition of Windows before proceeding, either installed or on the original
cd. This is what none of the Vista builds we have received to date will do.
All the builds are full editions.

So what upgrade scenarios will be supported?

Using XP as an example, you can do an in place upgrade from Win98 or ME to
XP Home, or Win98, ME, or 2000 to XP Pro by simply inserting the XP cd while
the older OS is running and clicking Install Windows on the splash screen.
However, if you try that with Win95 running you will get the message
"Upgrade is not an Option" when you click on Install Windows. The same will
happen if you try to upgrade from 2000 to XP Home that way.

Does that mean that Win95 does not qualify for moving up to XP by buying the
Upgrade edition? No. It just means you have to do a clean installation of
XP and have a Win95 cd that you can insert when the XP Upgrade Setup
requests proof that you qualify for the upgrade price.

The reason is that Win95 had reached the End Of Support before XP released
and so MS did not test the Win95 to XP upgrade scenario. Win95 was no
longer a supported OS. Since it was untested, Microsoft Product Support
Services could not guarantee users that they could help them through the
upgrade process from Win95 to XP so the option to upgrade in place was
disabled. PSS could only guarantee success if the user was doing a clean
installation. Thus the odd situation where an unsupported OS qualified one
to take advantage of Upgrade pricing but only when doing a clean
installation.

And that brings me to Vista. Win98/ME reached End of Support on July 11 of
this year. MS has no need to test any upgrade scenarios for unsupported
OS's and clearly PSS will not support users trying to do an in place upgrade
to Vista. Upgrade is not an Option will be the message if attempting to
upgrade to Vista via a Win98/ME desktop.

Question of the day: Will a Vista Upgrade edition Setup accept a Win98/ME
cd as a copy of a previous edition of Windows qualifying for the Upgrade
price? Should it still accept a Win95 cd?

My thought: If MS wants to get the remaining installed base of Win98/ME
users off of those systems, it will. (Who cares anymore about Win95 anymore
anyway?)

I imagine that the majority of those moving up from the Win9x/ME editions
will simply get Vista preinstalled on a new computer, but there will be some
Win98/ME users who have adequate hardware for the upgrade.

Remember, none of us has seen a Vista Upgrade edition build.

Colin Barnhorst - MVP (Virtual Machine)
 
I wouldn't bother with the spaghetti of upgrading...I'd just do a clean
install, the recommended option for previous upgrades of Windows.
 
All installations of Vista are clean installations. There is no spaghetti
upgrading anymore. That ended with XP. There is no difference between
upgrading and Custom installing as to how Vista gets installed. Upgrading
just means a clean installation of Vista with the additional reinstallation
of your programs and files. But that is not the subject of the post.
Please re-read.
 
I have been super busy the last two weeks and
meant to update you guys about the upgrade I
did on another box. Well, I did it and the upgrade
went off without a hitch. As I stated before, it was
a WinXP Pro SP2 computer, with hardly anything
else installed. Even so, I was quite impressed.

Looking forward to doing the RC1 upgrade
on my Vista Beta 2 partition.


-Michael
 
Not that I consider him a very good source, but Paul Thurrott has an article
on this very topic:

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_upgrade.asp

"If you are running any DOS-based version of Windows--including Windows 95,
Windows 98, Windows 98 Second Edition, or Windows Millennium Edition--or
Windows NT (any version), you don't qualify. That means you cannot purchase
an Upgrade version of Windows Vista at all, and you will need to grab a more
expensive Full version instead."
 
Colin said:
I am starting a thread to discuss an as yet untested upgrade
scenario. All of the upgrade scenarios tried to date with Vista in
both TechBeta and CPP have been upgrades to running operating
systems, either XP or an earlier build of Vista. MS has not yet
released a beta build that is an upgrade only build. All of them
have been full editions. So I'd like to speculate.
(Note: Upgrading with Vista is different from previous versions of
Windows in that all upgrades to Vista are actually clean
installations of Vista. A traditional, XP style, "clean
installation" in Vista is called a "Custom Installation." The
difference is whether or not you are keeping your programs and files
in place or having to reinstall everything.)
What I am talking about here is an upgrade sku. What will Vista
Upgrade editions do?

For those who have forgotten, all retail XP editions can do both a
clean installation or an upgrade. The only difference between the
Upgrade and full editions is that the Upgrade installer checks for a
qualifying previous edition of Windows before proceeding, either
installed or on the original cd. This is what none of the Vista
builds we have received to date will do. All the builds are full
editions.
So what upgrade scenarios will be supported?

Using XP as an example, you can do an in place upgrade from Win98 or
ME to XP Home, or Win98, ME, or 2000 to XP Pro by simply inserting
the XP cd while the older OS is running and clicking Install Windows
on the splash screen. However, if you try that with Win95 running you
will get the message "Upgrade is not an Option" when you click on
Install Windows. The same will happen if you try to upgrade from
2000 to XP Home that way.
Does that mean that Win95 does not qualify for moving up to XP by
buying the Upgrade edition? No. It just means you have to do a
clean installation of XP and have a Win95 cd that you can insert when
the XP Upgrade Setup requests proof that you qualify for the upgrade
price.
The reason is that Win95 had reached the End Of Support before XP
released and so MS did not test the Win95 to XP upgrade scenario. Win95
was no longer a supported OS. Since it was untested, Microsoft
Product Support Services could not guarantee users that they could
help them through the upgrade process from Win95 to XP so the option
to upgrade in place was disabled. PSS could only guarantee success
if the user was doing a clean installation. Thus the odd situation
where an unsupported OS qualified one to take advantage of Upgrade
pricing but only when doing a clean installation.

And that brings me to Vista. Win98/ME reached End of Support on July
11 of this year. MS has no need to test any upgrade scenarios for
unsupported OS's and clearly PSS will not support users trying to do
an in place upgrade to Vista. Upgrade is not an Option will be the
message if attempting to upgrade to Vista via a Win98/ME desktop.

Question of the day: Will a Vista Upgrade edition Setup accept a
Win98/ME cd as a copy of a previous edition of Windows qualifying for
the Upgrade price? Should it still accept a Win95 cd?

My thought: If MS wants to get the remaining installed base of
Win98/ME users off of those systems, it will. (Who cares anymore
about Win95 anymore anyway?)

I imagine that the majority of those moving up from the Win9x/ME
editions will simply get Vista preinstalled on a new computer, but
there will be some Win98/ME users who have adequate hardware for the
upgrade.
Remember, none of us has seen a Vista Upgrade edition build.

Colin Barnhorst - MVP (Virtual Machine)
Click to expand...

It looks like you'll only be able to upgrade from XP or win2k.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/upgradeinfo.mspx
 
Hello Mr. Brown

Looking at the notes of my Dad's on his test machine he has entered the following in an entry on page 8 in his notes.

Windows95,all98 versions, ME and Windows XP Home will not Update with this version

Windows XP Pro,W2K Advanced Server and Windows 2003 will Update but he also has noted that some files do not install with Updating on W2K Advanced Server and XP Pro.Only W2K3 Updated completely at this point

I hope this makes sense
 
NT4 may be supported in the same sense as Win98/ME. Of course it is not in
the upgrade matrix either, so let's hope folks can at least take advantage
of the cd to get the upgrade price. There won't be many.
 
I consider him the Michael Moore of Windows journalism. I hear he is doing
a documentary on Microsoft titled "Fahrenheit 1024x768."
 
Win95 was not in the upgrade matrix for XP but XP Upgrade edition still
accepts the Win95 cd when doing a clean installation. By the same token,
Win 2000 Pro is not in the upgrade matrix for XP Home (cannot be upgraded in
place to XP Home) but the XP Home Upgrade edition will still accept a Win
2000 Pro cd when doing a clean installation of Home. So all is not that
clear just from the matrix for an OS.
 
I think you may be right about allowing upgrades from 98 and ME but I
doubt 95. Anyone still running 95 is highly unlikely to have a machine
capable of running Vista. Lots of people running 98 and ME will have
machines that should at least run Basic.

I doubt MS would go to the trouble of coding the Vista setup program to
cope with all the possible scenarios with a 9x O/S that is no longer
supported but they might do for NT4 which is still around in large
numbers in a lot of businesses I've been to in the last year.

I wonder how many home users are even aware of the fact that the O/S is
not a permanent fixture but something that can be changed.
 
Bernie said:
I think you may be right about allowing upgrades from 98 and ME but I doubt
95. Anyone still running 95 is highly unlikely to have a machine capable of
running Vista. Lots of people running 98 and ME will have machines that
should at least run Basic.
Click to expand...

I still have an old laptop in the closet that runs Windows 95. Occasionally
I dig it out of the closet for nostalgic reason and let it boot up. It is a
Pentium 133 Mhz, 32 meg ram and has the wide screen display. Maybe someday
Microsoft will release a Vista CE that I can install on it :D.

It doesn't have to have everything in it, just the black task bar and
network capability. Maybe just release the theme. Isn't it ironic that the
HP Jordana handheld PC has a 133 Mhz processor, 16 meg ram and runs Windows
CE.
 
Hello Daphne,

Did you happened to note which column on page 8 of dad's notes?

:D

Hello Mr. Brown

Looking at the notes of my Dad's on his test machine he has entered the
following in an entry on page 8 in his notes.

Windows95,all98 versions, ME and Windows XP Home will not Update with this
version

Windows XP Pro,W2K Advanced Server and Windows 2003 will Update but he also
has noted that some files do not install with Updating on W2K Advanced
Server and XP Pro.Only W2K3 Updated completely at this point

I hope this makes sense
 
The issue discussed here is not just the in place upgrade scenario but the
acceptance by the Vista Upgrade edition installer of a Win 2000 Pro cd as
proof of eligibility for the upgrade edition price. Please review the
thread.
 
I have about 6 HP Jornadas, but I can't get them to turn on. I also have a
Compaq Aero with Windows CE. Pretty basic, but you get Word, Excel, and many
other programs. Plus they turn on immediately after you push the power button.

I really like my Toshiba Libretto with Windows 95. It is the cutest thing.
It is probably smaller than the smallest computers you have seen.

Here is a picture. They are even better when you see them in real life. Too
bad the keyboard is so small. It is very hard to see how small it actually is
with these pictures, but you get the point.

http://i3.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/d2/dd/d8_1_sbl.JPG

http://www.dgen.net/china/pix/libretto_big.jpg
 
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