untrue claims...

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J

john

The future of vista looks grim.. and history will look upon it with a frown.

Some in here to justify vistas shortcomings, bugs and bad design claim that
XP too was like that before SP1 or 2

This is untrue... XP was a brilliant product right from the start and got
better and better.

This is very different from Vista...

Vista is clearly the Windows Me of 2007, far worse than any version of
windows ever made (compared with the available technology at the time).

Stop the lies and face reality... and the reality is that vista will not be
healed with any amount of service packs.
Because its concept and design is flawed from the start....and MS cannot
change those design concepts with a service pack...

Long live XP!
 
John

I have had Vista Ultimate RTM running on my main computer since November 18,
and I have zero desire to return to XP..

Perhaps you would like to recount to us your personal experiences of Vista,
although I get the impression that you haven't actually tried it..


john said:
The future of vista looks grim.. and history will look upon it with a
frown.

Some in here to justify vistas shortcomings, bugs and bad design claim
that
XP too was like that before SP1 or 2

This is untrue... XP was a brilliant product right from the start and got
better and better.

This is very different from Vista...

Vista is clearly the Windows Me of 2007, far worse than any version of
windows ever made (compared with the available technology at the time).

Stop the lies and face reality... and the reality is that vista will not
be healed with any amount of service packs.
Because its concept and design is flawed from the start....and MS cannot
change those design concepts with a service pack...

Long live XP!

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
 
I get that impression too.

Heck for anyone who thinks XP was perfect from the get go I can point out a
glaring issue that existed until SP2 (yes it was cosmetic, but that's what a
ton of the complaints are about)

If you have an early edition of XP go into the setup for your taskbar and
compare the picture of the recycle bin with the actual recycle bin.

Beta code in a final product for several years ;)

Hmm, interesting eh?
 
Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User said:
Perhaps you would like to recount to us your personal experiences of
Vista, although I get the impression that you haven't actually tried it..

Actually, I have the same impression as the original poster. And I did try
Vista on several computers. No other Windows OS was such step backwards
(except of cource WinME). Terrible driver support, many annoying UI bugs,
too few actual advantages for the user.
Just to name a few things:
- No driver support for HP6122 printer, although printer and driver is
identical to the 990cxi. Time to implement would probably have been <5 min.
- Columns in details view often change to completely useless settings.
Mostly without comprehensible reason (no music or picture files in that
folder). Even if there are many video clips or pictures, I rarely have a
"Date taken" or a "Tag". Why can Vista after 5 years of development not use
those categories that are present in the files? (If videos have the "date
taken" property, show it, else show "date created". Time to implement
probably again < 5 min.)
- The indexing feature is quite nice, but every 1-2 weeks, the index is
rebuilt (perhaps because the computer crashed again due to another driver
problem). During rebuild, which takes nearly one day (for ~40 GB documents
and ~2GB mails), I get no search results at all.
- I cannot open a Windows Explorer window with "run as Administrator"
anymore like I could under XP. because I need to access files of different
users, I am now mainly logged in as Admin instead of a standard user. This
is a step back in security for me.
- In addition, some files (like setup.exe files) require to be run as Admin.
You cannot choose the account anymore as you could with XP. This is another
big step back in security.

In contrast to the original poster, in my opinion, all these bugs and
annoyances can be repaired by a Sevice Pack.
But instead of firmly shutting its eyes and shouting "how brilliant, how
brilliant", Microsoft has to really do some homework now. Listen to
customers and get things fixed. (Which, in my impression, some at MS are
actually doing.) In the mean time, please, try not to sing praises in the
face of those who have enough troubles with Vista.

Mike, do you still think, people who complain about Vista haven't tried it?
If so, just tell me, I can post much more of my experience.
 
We are all having to get used to new conventions, and it takes time.. and
Vista is by no means the ME of today..

The driver issue is not too good especially regarding video drivers, but it
wasn't for XP either.. re the HP drivers and all others, they are submitted
to MS for inclusion.. how is anybody at Microsoft supposed to know that the
6122 drivers are identical to the 990cxi?

File indexing can be turned off, but it does help.. yes, it can be annoying
waiting for Vista to index, but it will be fixed in time, no doubt..

Windows Explorer hadn't changed in years.. if you click on the bar now,
there are many more column headings available with which to customize.. the
default setting is just that.. it would take you no more than 5 mins to
implement changes..

Security is a huge problem and getting worse.. quite how one combats the
unknown is open to question.. the Vista team are not clairvoyants and have
done what they can to minimize present threats both from outside of the
computer and in.. so what they have done may not suit everybody, but then
what do you know that ever does suit everybody?

MS have made no secret of the fact that they are working on SP1 already..
they will take on board what people say here and in other forums.. they may
not be able to get around to fixing everything to everybody's satisfaction,
but they will certainly try to do their best..

I never said that all of the complainers here had probably never run Vista,
or given it a chance, but some undoubtedly haven't, and are just either MS
bashers here for the ride or they have a friend of a friend of a friend who
says that Vista sucks..

Despite appearances, there have been more than a few improvements under the
hood, and Vista is altogether a better base to work from for the future.. it
is the way forward, like it or not.. it will get better, and nobody is being
forced to use it yet.. the XP option is still very much alive and kicking..

My own view of Vista is that it is good, and way better in these initial
stages than one could reasonably hope.. the graphics engine is taxing the
graphics card companies, but they will sort it in time.. for now, while
graphics performance is not all that it could be, most have found a
reasonable level that works for them.. other driver issues are in the hands
of the component manufacturers, not Microsoft.. Some programs are no longer
compatible, but hey, what's new? at every OS change, this has been a problem
for some.. but not all..




mister.jones said:
Actually, I have the same impression as the original poster. And I did try
Vista on several computers. No other Windows OS was such step backwards
(except of cource WinME). Terrible driver support, many annoying UI bugs,
too few actual advantages for the user.
Just to name a few things:
- No driver support for HP6122 printer, although printer and driver is
identical to the 990cxi. Time to implement would probably have been <5
min.
- Columns in details view often change to completely useless settings.
Mostly without comprehensible reason (no music or picture files in that
folder). Even if there are many video clips or pictures, I rarely have a
"Date taken" or a "Tag". Why can Vista after 5 years of development not
use those categories that are present in the files? (If videos have the
"date taken" property, show it, else show "date created". Time to
implement probably again < 5 min.)
- The indexing feature is quite nice, but every 1-2 weeks, the index is
rebuilt (perhaps because the computer crashed again due to another driver
problem). During rebuild, which takes nearly one day (for ~40 GB documents
and ~2GB mails), I get no search results at all.
- I cannot open a Windows Explorer window with "run as Administrator"
anymore like I could under XP. because I need to access files of different
users, I am now mainly logged in as Admin instead of a standard user. This
is a step back in security for me.
- In addition, some files (like setup.exe files) require to be run as
Admin. You cannot choose the account anymore as you could with XP. This is
another big step back in security.

In contrast to the original poster, in my opinion, all these bugs and
annoyances can be repaired by a Sevice Pack.
But instead of firmly shutting its eyes and shouting "how brilliant, how
brilliant", Microsoft has to really do some homework now. Listen to
customers and get things fixed. (Which, in my impression, some at MS are
actually doing.) In the mean time, please, try not to sing praises in the
face of those who have enough troubles with Vista.

Mike, do you still think, people who complain about Vista haven't tried
it? If so, just tell me, I can post much more of my experience.

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
 
I think Vista is not all that much different than the history of
Microsoft OS releases. It offers a lot, but I expect much of the
promise to be fulfilled with an SP1 (or SP2) along with faster and
lower cost hardware to match it.

This is pretty much the same as Windows 95 (OSR2 was when it really was
solid -- and in the interim the hardware moved up to make it a happy
combination for the time). Windows 98 -- (SE was when it was really
solid, though it was less of a push hardware wise). Windows 2K -- SP3
was it's crossover point, and again hardware improvements helped.
Windows XP -- SP2 there -- and yet again faster hardware made a
difference.

I really expect the same sequence with Vista.

The one thing which bothers me is not the upgrade stuff (consumers have
the choice to remain with their existing XP software), but the push for
all new consumer hardware to have Vista NOW.
 
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