UAC into the (Vista) platform was to annoy users

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S

SG

"The reason we put UAC into the (Vista) platform was to annoy users--I'm
serious," said Cross"

http://www.news.com/Microsoft-Vista-feature-designed-to-annoy-users/2100-1016_3-6237191.html


I've read this article several times and I'm still not sure what Cross means
by forcing independent software vendors (ISVs) to make their code more
secure. Is he saying by annoying user that we are to put pressure on these
vendors?
Opinions welcome....

--
All the best,
SG

Is your computer system ready for Vista?
https://winqual.microsoft.com/hcl/
 
SG said:
"The reason we put UAC into the (Vista) platform was to annoy users--I'm
serious," said Cross"

http://www.news.com/Microsoft-Vista-feature-designed-to-annoy-users/2100-1016_3-6237191.html



I've read this article several times and I'm still not sure what Cross
means by forcing independent software vendors (ISVs) to make their code
more secure. Is he saying by annoying user that we are to put pressure
on these vendors?
Opinions welcome....
Click to expand...
Fact. Quickbooks demanded admin rights.

Fact. Vista by the very nature of how it's coded ensures that vendors
like Intuit can't get away with that anymore.

I never see UAC unless I am updating a piece of software.

But QB 2007 and 2008 now support running without admin rights.
 
Hi Susan,

Thanks for the reply.
I'm well aware of UAC and the forcing of (ISVs) to comply, but I don't
understand why Cross stated that how annoying users will force these (ISVs)
to do so. What part does the users have to do with making vendors comply?.
Maybe I'm just not reading this article correctly.

--
All the best,
SG

Is your computer system ready for Vista?
https://winqual.microsoft.com/hcl/
 
SG said:
Hi Susan,

Thanks for the reply.
I'm well aware of UAC and the forcing of (ISVs) to comply, but I don't
understand why Cross stated that how annoying users will force these
(ISVs) to do so. What part does the users have to do with making vendors
comply?. Maybe I'm just not reading this article correctly.
Click to expand...

I'm a user and I complained to Intuit to make Quickbooks run without
admin rights.
 
OTOH, as discussed in another thread (started by me) Microsoft is one of the
vendors whose software (Visual-Studio 2005 and 2008) does not play correctly
with UAC. In fact, in order to have Visual Studio installed on my Vista
machine, I am FORCED to turn UAC off and LEAVE IT OFF! Even uninstalling
Visual Studio does not fix the problems. Only a fresh install of Vista will
fix it. <argh!>
 
It is annoying when independent software vendors don't
write their software with the "least privilege" concept.

UAC just sort of pressures them to get in line with what
is already a standard security measure. People will want
software that works without the 'surprise' prompts. The
vendors will want people to use their software.

It's sort of a 'if you build it, they will come' mindset.
 
Jim Kay said:
OTOH, as discussed in another thread (started by me) Microsoft is one of
the vendors whose software (Visual-Studio 2005 and 2008) does not play
correctly with UAC. In fact, in order to have Visual Studio installed on
my Vista machine, I am FORCED to turn UAC off and LEAVE IT OFF! Even
uninstalling Visual Studio does not fix the problems. Only a fresh install
of Vista will fix it. <argh!>
Click to expand...
I am glad you mention this fact, so I will know not to install VC++ 2008 in
case I get a Vista machine. I will have to keep an XP machine or just dump
VC++ 2008 and stick to GCC. I guess you could cross-compile for Vista on an
XP machine.
 
Jim Kay said:
OTOH, as discussed in another thread (started by me) Microsoft is one of
the vendors whose software (Visual-Studio 2005 and 2008) does not play
correctly with UAC. In fact, in order to have Visual Studio installed on
my Vista machine, I am FORCED to turn UAC off and LEAVE IT OFF! Even
uninstalling Visual Studio does not fix the problems. Only a fresh install
of Vista will fix it. <argh!>
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean - I'm running Visual Studio 2005 and 2008 on a vista
box with no problems. With UAC on. I usually run them as administrator so I
can attach to a service for debugging. Moving to sp1 didn't cause any
difficulties either.

M
 
I have installed Visual Studio 2008 a few times already and have not had any
problems with it. I did not have to turn off UAC, and I never have turned it
off. You do not have to read about one instance of a person having to turn
UAC off and conclude that you should not touch Vistual Studio 2008.
 
Susan Bradley said:
I'm a user and I complained to Intuit to make Quickbooks run without admin
rights.
Click to expand...

Well done, you!

Most users, however, neither know or care what admin rights are. They just
see this annoying box thing pop up and wonder why Microsoft chose to annoy
them like that.

Most people, in fact, won't even distinguish between Microsoft and other
vendors. They just see that Vista (which includes all the software on the
computer) is harder to use than XP was.

The point SG is making is this: why slap the user round the head for
something they are neither responsible for, nor reasonably expected to
understand.
 
In message <[email protected]> "Rojo
Habe said:
The point SG is making is this: why slap the user round the head for
something they are neither responsible for, nor reasonably expected to
understand.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Damn car, complaining it needs oil, it should just maintain
itself.

Why is it that users demand the ability to do whatever they want on a
computer, but don't take responsibility when they do something stupid?
 
Complaining about a click or two is trivial when you consider how
much effort it took to run a program in the olden days. Switches,
patch cables, and shoeboxes of IBM keypunch cards. Now it's
sooo easy to do - people complain about UAC prompts.
 
FromTheRafters said:
Complaining about a click or two is trivial when you consider how
much effort it took to run a program in the olden days. Switches,
patch cables, and shoeboxes of IBM keypunch cards. Now it's
sooo easy to do - people complain about UAC prompts.
Click to expand...

Yes, but back then you needed to know how to use a computer. Nowadays
people get them for Christmas; we're all told how easy it is and how it's
impossible to break them (yeah, right) and When XP was released it came
complete with a Fischer Price visual style to encourage everybody that it
really is easy.

We have a whole new generation of computer users who've been brought up to
treat them like consumer goods. Your TV set doesn't start asking you if
you're REALLY sure you want to change channels.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily having a go at Vista. UAC doesn't
actually bother me that much. It just seems a weird that they've attracted
hordes of non-computer-savvy users and then put the onus on them to complain
to software vendors when the Windows Logo requirements are breached.

Oh, and if pushed, I could probably name loads of people who don't know
where the oil goes in their car.
 
Rojo Habe said:
Yes, but back then you needed to know how to use a computer. Nowadays
people get them for Christmas; we're all told how easy it is and how it's
impossible to break them (yeah, right) and When XP was released it came
complete with a Fischer Price visual style to encourage everybody that it
really is easy.
:o)

We have a whole new generation of computer users who've been brought up to
treat them like consumer goods. Your TV set doesn't start asking you if
you're REALLY sure you want to change channels.
Click to expand...

No, but it is generally acceptable to be asked if you really want to
delete something after you pressed the delete button. Nobody said
a word about how annoying it was - and deleting is not really as
important a consideration as running foriegn code is.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily having a go at Vista. UAC doesn't
actually bother me that much. It just seems a weird that they've
attracted hordes of non-computer-savvy users and then put the onus on them
to complain to software vendors when the Windows Logo requirements are
breached.
Click to expand...

This paradigm has been looming on the horizon for years if not decades. The
vendors should have been prepared for this - it is they who annoy the users
by not writing 'least privilege' code in the first place. It was a good idea
long
before Vista made it more of a necessity.
Oh, and if pushed, I could probably name loads of people who don't know
where the oil goes in their car.
Click to expand...

It goes everywhere, even on your clothes - you can even smell it from a
distance. :o)
 
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