Troubleshooting a failing system

[MPBrede]

Hi, I hope it is OK to post this type of question here, if not, please
recommend a more suitable place. On the off chance that it is OK, I'll
post my question, but feel free to pass it by if it shouldn't be here.

I have an old computer - 850Mhz AMD. It is used to run games for my
kid. The system has become quite unstable and I've been upgrading it
piecemeal, first the HD, then the sound card, then the video card (I
stayed with older technology, nothing new or fancy). Then an extra fan,
then a wireless card to connect to the Internet. I also swapped out the
power supply (220 Watt) for a 340 watt, but the same problem. Finally I
moved all the components to a newer case with better airflow and more
fans, but my problem persists.

The problem is that for no reason at all the computer will die and the
only way to get it to power up again is to unplug the mains cord and
replug it after 10 seconds or so. This does not only happen when the
computer is in use, but also overnight when it should be doing nothing.
I suspect overheating to be a cause, but the new case has a thermostat
that I've placed on the heat sink for the processor and the temp never
goes over 43C (109F), so I don't think it is a heat problem.

Any advice on what I can look at or how to go about troubleshooting
this type of problem? I'm at the point where I'm considering swapping
out the MB and processor, but that means I have to get new memory, so
it looks like it will be more than $100 to do so.

 

[johns]

A computer has a limited lifetime. There are components on
the motherboard that have a rated lifetime of about 3 years
if the computer is left on constantly. Older computers are
far worse in this regard than newer ones, but even then,
the state of the art changes fast enough that a 4 year old
PC may not run modern apps or games. Along with that,
the vendors cannot afford to keep parts in stock that would
match your hardware. They are forced to keep up with
the new technology if they want to stay in business. Fixing
old technology is like buying a can of beans from the
grocery store .. eating the beans .. and then taking the
can back for a refill. May be logical .. just wrong headed.

johns

 

[JAD]

check the power supply (again)
remove any extra memory (leave 1 module in it)
what OS? check XP event log?

Computers do have a limited life time , NOBODY can (including johns),
predict when the end will be. 3 years, as some people would like you to
believe, is unreasonable.

 

[MPBrede]

A computer has a limited lifetime. There are components on
the motherboard that have a rated lifetime of about 3 years
if the computer is left on constantly. Older computers are
far worse in this regard than newer ones, but even then,
the state of the art changes fast enough that a 4 year old
PC may not run modern apps or games. Along with that,
the vendors cannot afford to keep parts in stock that would
match your hardware. They are forced to keep up with
the new technology if they want to stay in business. Fixing
old technology is like buying a can of beans from the
grocery store .. eating the beans .. and then taking the
can back for a refill. May be logical .. just wrong headed.

Sorry, I see I've not supplied as much information as I should've. My
kid is small, the games are not leading edge, and mostly works better
on Win98 than on WinXP. I've set up the machine to dual-boot Win98 for
her games and WinXP for Internet access. I've bought the replacement
parts from internet vendors, old, but unused (new), $20 for the video
card, $12 for the sound card. $7 for the fan and $24 for the case.
Getting to replace the MB, processor and memory is going to be a LOT
more expensive, so if I could troubleshoot this system and get it
working, I'd be real happy. Granted, the processor is about 7 years
old, but I was hoping it'd have another few years of life in it so that
my upgrade could be to an affordable system for Vista.

 

[JAD]

A computer has a limited lifetime. There are components on
the motherboard that have a rated lifetime of about 3 years
if the computer is left on constantly.

Where do you get this crsp from?


Older computers are

far worse in this regard than newer ones,

Tell that to the 8088 board pulled from the dirt of a demolished garage,
cleaned it up and powered it up. Worked and all 640k soldered memory was
working.



but even then,

the state of the art changes fast enough that a 4 year old
PC may not run modern apps or games.

what exactly is 'modern'? 'Games' can be 'played' maybe you won't see the
detail, however it still can be played. If it is a new release, the 'gamer'
who is most likely the consumer of these, knows what system he needs.

Along with that,

the vendors cannot afford to keep parts in stock that would
match your hardware.

<<<<<<<,SIGH>>>>>>>>>>>

They are forced to keep up with

the new technology if they want to stay in business.

yeah and toss out all those 'olden day' tech parts to make room

Fixing

old technology is like buying a can of beans from the
grocery store .. eating the beans .. and then taking the
can back for a refill. May be logical .. just wrong headed.

Let me guess this is another "worm post"...you sir are
............misguided.....to put it nicely

 

[MPBrede]

Any ideas on how/what to check for in the PS? Last time I bought a new
PS from Fry's, when my machine failed with that installed I returned
the power supply to Fry's, but I think that is unethical since they
then had to mark the PS down to a lower price. Hate to have to do it to
them again.

I did run two different memory test programs (Memtest and a MS-based
utility) on all the memory (512M), and checked the individual memory
sticks to make sure they all reported the correct amount of memory
through the BIOS.

I'm very loath to replace the motherboard, since the Win98 I have is
the manufacturer's restore disks for the system and I'm not sure it'll
work on a new processor. As it is, after I replaced the HD, I found
that MS wasn't supporting Win98 anymore and I couldn't get the browser
updated or any security patches, hence I now run the machine in
dual-boot mode.

 

[Compfix]

Any ideas on how/what to check for in the PS? Last time I bought a new
PS from Fry's, when my machine failed with that installed I returned
the power supply to Fry's, but I think that is unethical since they
then had to mark the PS down to a lower price. Hate to have to do it to
them again.

I did run two different memory test programs (Memtest and a MS-based
utility) on all the memory (512M), and checked the individual memory
sticks to make sure they all reported the correct amount of memory
through the BIOS.

I'm very loath to replace the motherboard, since the Win98 I have is
the manufacturer's restore disks for the system and I'm not sure it'll
work on a new processor. As it is, after I replaced the HD, I found
that MS wasn't supporting Win98 anymore and I couldn't get the browser
updated or any security patches, hence I now run the machine in
dual-boot mode.

FWIW I resurrected an old PC recently with parts obtained from Ebay. There
seems to be a wealth of time expired kit there which could still be useful.


Bob

 

[Mike T.]

Hi, I hope it is OK to post this type of question here, if not, please
recommend a more suitable place. On the off chance that it is OK, I'll
post my question, but feel free to pass it by if it shouldn't be here.

I have an old computer - 850Mhz AMD. It is used to run games for my
kid. The system has become quite unstable and I've been upgrading it
piecemeal, first the HD, then the sound card, then the video card (I
stayed with older technology, nothing new or fancy). Then an extra fan,
then a wireless card to connect to the Internet. I also swapped out the
power supply (220 Watt) for a 340 watt, but the same problem. Finally I
moved all the components to a newer case with better airflow and more
fans, but my problem persists.

The problem is that for no reason at all the computer will die and the
only way to get it to power up again is to unplug the mains cord and
replug it after 10 seconds or so.

That right there tells me that it's down to the power supply (99%) or
mainboard (1%). Even though you've replaced the power supply, it's still
more likely to be a power supply problem. A power supply that is brand new
out of the box isn't necessarily good. But then, it could be a bad
mainboard, also. -Dave

 

[Rod Speed]

A computer has a limited lifetime. There are components
on the motherboard that have a rated lifetime of about
3 years if the computer is left on constantly.

Oh bullshit.

Older computers are far worse in this regard than newer ones,

More bullshit.

but even then, the state of the art changes fast enough
that a 4 year old PC may not run modern apps or games.

More bullshit.

Along with that, the vendors cannot afford to keep
parts in stock that would match your hardware.

More bullshit.

They are forced to keep up with the new
technology if they want to stay in business.

Fixing old technology is like buying a can of beans from the
grocery store .. eating the beans .. and then taking the
can back for a refill. May be logical .. just wrong headed.

More bullshit.

 

[Rod Speed]

check the power supply (again)
remove any extra memory (leave 1 module in it)
what OS? check XP event log?

Computers do have a limited life time ,

Most dont, actually, they get discarded when their performance isnt adequate.

NOBODY can (including johns), predict when the end will be.
3 years, as some people would like you to believe, is unreasonable.

Just plain silly in fact.

 

[ducky]

Any ideas on how/what to check for in the PS?

Checked for popped, burned out or, blackened capacitors. i have seen
computers that will boot even with a damaged one on the MOBO, but they
are SLOOOW.

AR

 

[Rod Speed]

Hi, I hope it is OK to post this type of question here, if not, please
recommend a more suitable place. On the off chance that it is OK,
I'll post my question, but feel free to pass it by if it shouldn't be here.

I have an old computer - 850Mhz AMD. It is used to run games for my
kid. The system has become quite unstable and I've been upgrading it
piecemeal, first the HD, then the sound card, then the video card (I
stayed with older technology, nothing new or fancy). Then an extra
fan, then a wireless card to connect to the Internet. I also swapped
out the power supply (220 Watt) for a 340 watt, but the same problem.
Finally I moved all the components to a newer case with better
airflow and more fans, but my problem persists.

In that case its almost certainly a failing motherboard.

Check for bad caps, those are the usually blue or black plastic covered
post like things that stick up vertically from the motherboard. The tops
should be flat. If any have bulged or have leaked, thats the problem.

The problem is that for no reason at all the computer will die and the
only way to get it to power up again is to unplug the mains cord and
replug it after 10 seconds or so. This does not only happen when the
computer is in use, but also overnight when it should be doing nothing.

I suspect overheating to be a cause,

Nope, that wont produce the overnight effect.

but the new case has a thermostat that I've placed on the heat sink for the processor
and the temp never goes over 43C (109F), so I don't think it is a heat problem.

Yep, the temp is fine.

Any advice on what I can look at or how to
go about troubleshooting this type of problem?

See above.

I'm at the point where I'm considering swapping out
the MB and processor, but that means I have to get new
memory, so it looks like it will be more than $100 to do so.

Yeah, looks like the best thing to do now, particularly if any caps look bad.

Its remotely possible you could have got two bad power
supplys with the same unusual symptom in a row, particularly
the overnight effect, but that is extremely unlikely indeed.

I'm very loath to replace the motherboard, since the Win98
I have is the manufacturer's restore disks for the system
and I'm not sure it'll work on a new processor.

Yeah, it likely wont, which manufacturer ?

Another copy of Win98 from ebay isnt going to cost that much
and you could just download a copy since you paid for the original.

 

[Conor]

Hi, I hope it is OK to post this type of question here, if not, please
recommend a more suitable place. On the off chance that it is OK, I'll
post my question, but feel free to pass it by if it shouldn't be here.

I have an old computer - 850Mhz AMD. It is used to run games for my
kid. The system has become quite unstable and I've been upgrading it
piecemeal, first the HD, then the sound card, then the video card (I
stayed with older technology, nothing new or fancy). Then an extra fan,
then a wireless card to connect to the Internet. I also swapped out the
power supply (220 Watt) for a 340 watt, but the same problem. Finally I
moved all the components to a newer case with better airflow and more
fans, but my problem persists.

Any advice on what I can look at or how to go about troubleshooting
this type of problem? I'm at the point where I'm considering swapping
out the MB and processor, but that means I have to get new memory, so
it looks like it will be more than $100 to do so.

Mains lead. THe contacts in the plug that goes into the PSU have become
splayed.

 

[johns]

You should make a recording saying "Bullshit" over and
over. My wife says she wants a monkey doll with a tummy
button to play the recording when she needs to.

johns

 

[johns]

Go buy a new computer. Geeze! Your kid will like
it. Your wife will like it. All your friends will think you
are a genius. You will become a hero at work.
All the secretaries will show you their secret key
presses. You will upgrade years from now when
SP4 comes out for Vista. All the time you save
will let you go out and take dancing lessons with
your wife.

johns

 

[Rod Speed]

Some gutless ****wit desperately cowering behind
johns <[email protected]> desperately
attempted to bullshit its way out of its predicament
and fooled absolutely no one at all, as always.

 

[SteveH]

Go buy a new computer. Geeze! Your kid will like
it. Your wife will like it. All your friends will think you
are a genius. You will become a hero at work.
All the secretaries will show you their secret key
presses. You will upgrade years from now when
SP4 comes out for Vista. All the time you save
will let you go out and take dancing lessons with
your wife.

johns

Still talking bollocks I see.

SteveH

 

[job]

Get one of the $349 Dell deals and be done with it.

 

[Conor]

Get one of the $349 Dell deals and be done with it.

What the ****? Spend $349 for a $0.99 part?

 

[JAD]

You should make a recording saying "Bullshit" over and
over. My wife says she wants a monkey doll with a tummy
button to play the recording when she needs to.

johns

I have absolutely NO DOUBT she does.


Next time you have a thought..........just let it go!