Trouble obtaining IP address

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dual Trace
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Dual Trace

I’ll try to make this as short and clear as possible and then reply with
details as needed / requested.

I have an old computer connected to internet via DSL modem which used to
work fine. Decided to connect a new computer to internet using the same
modem, so I moved the Ethernet cable from the old one to the new one. The new
one was not able to get the IP address. Went back and forth through the
ipconfig deal with Verizon tech support, but could not make it work. Tried
the same maneuvers with the old one, just to prove modem and connection are
fine and indeed everything worked fine when the old computer was hooked.

Tech support from the new computer (HP) advised me to go through the system
recovery because some Windows socket registry might be corrupted. Done the
recovery and was able to connect the new computer. IP address, etc. were
acquired and all was OK.

Now I switched the Ethernet cable to the old computer again and guess what:
it shows the same symptom. Cannot obtain the IP address. Verizon tech support
said I cannot switch Ethernet cable from one computer to another and expect
to work because the last computer obtaining an IP address will somehow keep
that route occupied and the attempt of another one to get an IP address will
fail. They said I need a router.

Well, how come it worked after restoring the new computer? At that stage of
the game, the old computer had obtained an IP address and then the new one
was able to connect and get his as well.

Note: When trying the ipconfig command, both IP and Subnet Mask seem to get
valid addresses, but none is shown for Default Gateway.

I know this is not black magic, but it certainly looks to me.

Any help is appreciated.
Thank you,
Dual Trace
 
I'll try to make this as short and clear as possible and then reply with
details as needed / requested.

I have an old computer connected to internet via DSL modem which used to
work fine. Decided to connect a new computer to internet using the same
modem, so I moved the Ethernet cable from the old one to the new one. The new
one was not able to get the IP address. Went back and forth through the
ipconfig deal with Verizon tech support, but could not make it work. Tried
the same maneuvers with the old one, just to prove modem and connection are
fine and indeed everything worked fine when the old computer was hooked.

Tech support from the new computer (HP) advised me to go through the system
recovery because some Windows socket registry might be corrupted. Done the
recovery and was able to connect the new computer. IP address, etc. were
acquired and all was OK.

Now I switched the Ethernet cable to the old computer again and guess what:
it shows the same symptom. Cannot obtain the IP address. Verizon tech support
said I cannot switch Ethernet cable from one computer to another and expect
to work because the last computer obtaining an IP address will somehow keep
that route occupied and the attempt of another one to get an IP address will
fail. They said I need a router.

Well, how come it worked after restoring the new computer? At that stage of
the game, the old computer had obtained an IP address and then the new one
was able to connect and get his as well.

Note: When trying the ipconfig command, both IP and Subnet Mask seem to get
valid addresses, but none is shown for Default Gateway.

I know this is not black magic, but it certainly looks to me.

Any help is appreciated.
Thank you,
Dual Trace
Click to expand...

If you want to connect the two PCs to the Internet, to easiest way is
to have a Cable/DSL boardband router. You should be able to pick one
up at most local computer shops, office supply stores or major
electronic retail stores.
 
I don’t want to have them both connected simultaneously. The new one is
supposed to take over, but until I’m done moving e-mails, various files, etc.
from the old to the new one, I wanted to be able to switch internet to either
one.
 
I’ll try to make this as short and clear as possible and then reply with
details as needed / requested.

I have an old computer connected to internet via DSL modem which used to
work fine. Decided to connect a new computer to internet using the same
modem, so I moved the Ethernet cable from the old one to the new one. The new
one was not able to get the IP address. Went back and forth through the
ipconfig deal with Verizon tech support, but could not make it work. Tried
the same maneuvers with the old one, just to prove modem and connection are
fine and indeed everything worked fine when the old computer was hooked.

Tech support from the new computer (HP) advised me to go through the system
recovery because some Windows socket registry might be corrupted. Done the
recovery and was able to connect the new computer. IP address, etc. were
acquired and all was OK.

Now I switched the Ethernet cable to the old computer again and guess what:
it shows the same symptom. Cannot obtain the IP address. Verizon tech support
said I cannot switch Ethernet cable from one computer to another and expect
to work because the last computer obtaining an IP address will somehow keep
that route occupied and the attempt of another one to get an IP address will
fail. They said I need a router.

Well, how come it worked after restoring the new computer? At that stage of
the game, the old computer had obtained an IP address and then the new one
was able to connect and get his as well.

Note: When trying the ipconfig command, both IP and Subnet Mask seem to get
valid addresses, but none is shown for Default Gateway.

I know this is not black magic, but it certainly looks to me.

Any help is appreciated.
Thank you,
Dual Trace
Click to expand...

You do need a router. I'm surprised that an ISP would actually tell you that,
though.

Switching two computers back and forth using the same Internet service is a
dodgy process. With some services, it will work, with others it may work but
take time for one computer be accepted after another was used previously.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/07/connecting-different-devices-to-your.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/07/connecting-different-devices-to-your.html

My guess is the amount of time that it took you to run the Winsock repair was
enough time for the one MAC address to clear from the Verizon DHCP server, and
allow the second address to work. You can't tell though for sure. Only Verizon
can tell you, if they will.

Get a router, they are not expensive and they will help you in many ways.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/01/proper-network-design.html#Router>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/01/proper-network-design.html#Router

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.
 
Dual said:
I’ll try to make this as short and clear as possible and then reply with
details as needed / requested.

I have an old computer connected to internet via DSL modem which used to
work fine. Decided to connect a new computer to internet using the same
modem, so I moved the Ethernet cable from the old one to the new one. The new
one was not able to get the IP address. Went back and forth through the
ipconfig deal with Verizon tech support, but could not make it work. Tried
the same maneuvers with the old one, just to prove modem and connection are
fine and indeed everything worked fine when the old computer was hooked.

Tech support from the new computer (HP) advised me to go through the system
recovery because some Windows socket registry might be corrupted. Done the
recovery and was able to connect the new computer. IP address, etc. were
acquired and all was OK.

Now I switched the Ethernet cable to the old computer again and guess what:
it shows the same symptom. Cannot obtain the IP address. Verizon tech support
said I cannot switch Ethernet cable from one computer to another and expect
to work because the last computer obtaining an IP address will somehow keep
that route occupied and the attempt of another one to get an IP address will
fail. They said I need a router.

Well, how come it worked after restoring the new computer? At that stage of
the game, the old computer had obtained an IP address and then the new one
was able to connect and get his as well.

Note: When trying the ipconfig command, both IP and Subnet Mask seem to get
valid addresses, but none is shown for Default Gateway.

I know this is not black magic, but it certainly looks to me.

Any help is appreciated.
Thank you,
Dual Trace
Click to expand...

I agree with you. You do not need a router if what you intend to do is
to keep the new one as the only computer connected to the Internet once
you get all your data transferred to it.

Let's start with the basics. What is the device that you are calling a
DSL modem" (make and model)? Often, these boxes are not just modems but
one-port routers as well.

A related question: when you were able to connect using the old
computer, did you have to enter your userid and password, or was it an
"always on" connection? If you go to Network Connections on the old
computer, did the active connection show as a "Local Area Connection," a
"WAN Miniport (PPPoE)," or something else?

What does ipconfig /all show (on both computers)?

--
Lem -- MS-MVP - Networking

To the moon and back with 2K words of RAM and 36K words of ROM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer
http://history.nasa.gov/afj/compessay.htm
 
Chuck,
Very interesting reading in your links. So some internet providers will not
let you switch from one computer to another without waiting some amount of
time. Then it looks like the new computer would have been able to get the IP
address even without the Windows recovery job, just by waiting long enough
before attempting it. You know, I tend to think this “conspiracy†theory
applies.
Thanks.


Chuck said:
I’ll try to make this as short and clear as possible and then reply with
details as needed / requested.

I have an old computer connected to internet via DSL modem which used to
work fine. Decided to connect a new computer to internet using the same
modem, so I moved the Ethernet cable from the old one to the new one. The new
one was not able to get the IP address. Went back and forth through the
ipconfig deal with Verizon tech support, but could not make it work. Tried
the same maneuvers with the old one, just to prove modem and connection are
fine and indeed everything worked fine when the old computer was hooked.

Tech support from the new computer (HP) advised me to go through the system
recovery because some Windows socket registry might be corrupted. Done the
recovery and was able to connect the new computer. IP address, etc. were
acquired and all was OK.

Now I switched the Ethernet cable to the old computer again and guess what:
it shows the same symptom. Cannot obtain the IP address. Verizon tech support
said I cannot switch Ethernet cable from one computer to another and expect
to work because the last computer obtaining an IP address will somehow keep
that route occupied and the attempt of another one to get an IP address will
fail. They said I need a router.

Well, how come it worked after restoring the new computer? At that stage of
the game, the old computer had obtained an IP address and then the new one
was able to connect and get his as well.

Note: When trying the ipconfig command, both IP and Subnet Mask seem to get
valid addresses, but none is shown for Default Gateway.

I know this is not black magic, but it certainly looks to me.

Any help is appreciated.
Thank you,
Dual Trace
Click to expand...

You do need a router. I'm surprised that an ISP would actually tell you that,
though.

Switching two computers back and forth using the same Internet service is a
dodgy process. With some services, it will work, with others it may work but
take time for one computer be accepted after another was used previously.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/07/connecting-different-devices-to-your.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/07/connecting-different-devices-to-your.html

My guess is the amount of time that it took you to run the Winsock repair was
enough time for the one MAC address to clear from the Verizon DHCP server, and
allow the second address to work. You can't tell though for sure. Only Verizon
can tell you, if they will.

Get a router, they are not expensive and they will help you in many ways.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/01/proper-network-design.html#Router>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/01/proper-network-design.html#Router

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.
Click to expand...
 
Lem,
My DSL modem is a Westell WireSpeed (or maybe SpeedWire) device.

No userid or password needed; I only had to power up the DSL modem and after
10-15 seconds I could use the internet.

On the Network Connections it’s shown as Local Area Connection.

I have not tried ipconfig/all
I only tried:
ipconfig
ipconfig/release this will bring all zeroes
ipconfig/renew
The IP Address, Subnet Mask and Default Gateway all displayed something like
xxx.xxx.xx.xxx when all was working on. Applies to both computers
When the connection could not be established the default Gateway did not
show anything.
Thank you.
 
Dual said:
Lem,
My DSL modem is a Westell WireSpeed (or maybe SpeedWire) device.

No userid or password needed; I only had to power up the DSL modem and after
10-15 seconds I could use the internet.

On the Network Connections it’s shown as Local Area Connection.

I have not tried ipconfig/all
I only tried:
ipconfig
ipconfig/release this will bring all zeroes
ipconfig/renew
The IP Address, Subnet Mask and Default Gateway all displayed something like
xxx.xxx.xx.xxx when all was working on. Applies to both computers
When the connection could not be established the default Gateway did not
show anything.
Thank you.
Click to expand...


Power down both the modem and your computer. Connect the modem to the
computer with an Ethernet cable. Turn on the modem. Wait until the
lights stabilize, particularly until the DSL light turns green. Power
up the computer. Open a command prompt on the computer and type
ipconfig /all [enter]. Copy and paste the output into your next post.

[right click in command prompt window; select all; CTRL-C; click in an
open message window; CTRL-V]

--
Lem -- MS-MVP - Networking

To the moon and back with 2K words of RAM and 36K words of ROM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer
http://history.nasa.gov/afj/compessay.htm
 
Chuck,
Very interesting reading in your links. So some internet providers will not
let you switch from one computer to another without waiting some amount of
time. Then it looks like the new computer would have been able to get the IP
address even without the Windows recovery job, just by waiting long enough
before attempting it. You know, I tend to think this “conspiracy” theory
applies.
Click to expand...

No conspiracy. Just how DHCP, and DHCP leases, work. Until a lease expires,
your service isn't going to need a new IP address. That lessens the load on the
DHCP server. Unfortunately, since your computer (if that's what is connected to
the modem) has a different MAC address than the device that was previously
assigned the IP address, its MAC address won't be recognised. Since the IP
address for your connection was already assigned, you don't get another.

MAC addresses is a Layer 2 identity, and DHCP / IP is a Layer 3 identity. This
is just how the layers work.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.
 
Dual Trace said:
I’ll try to make this as short and clear as possible and then reply with
details as needed / requested.

I have an old computer connected to internet via DSL modem which used to
work fine. Decided to connect a new computer to internet using the same
modem, so I moved the Ethernet cable from the old one to the new one. The
new
one was not able to get the IP address.
Click to expand...

And it won't if you don't log in.
Went back and forth through the
ipconfig deal with Verizon tech support, but could not make it work. Tried
the same maneuvers with the old one, just to prove modem and connection
are
fine and indeed everything worked fine when the old computer was hooked.

Tech support from the new computer (HP) advised me to go through the
system
recovery because some Windows socket registry might be corrupted. Done the
recovery and was able to connect the new computer. IP address, etc. were
acquired and all was OK.

Now I switched the Ethernet cable to the old computer again and guess
what:
it shows the same symptom. Cannot obtain the IP address. Verizon tech
support
said I cannot switch Ethernet cable from one computer to another and
expect
to work because the last computer obtaining an IP address will somehow
keep
that route occupied and the attempt of another one to get an IP address
will
fail. They said I need a router.

Well, how come it worked after restoring the new computer? At that stage
of
the game, the old computer had obtained an IP address and then the new one
was able to connect and get his as well.

Note: When trying the ipconfig command, both IP and Subnet Mask seem to
get
valid addresses, but none is shown for Default Gateway.

I know this is not black magic, but it certainly looks to me.

Any help is appreciated.
Thank you,
Dual Trace
Click to expand...

I don't think you've mentioned whether you've actually logged into the DSL
service. If you haven't, you wont' get an IP address. DSL normally
requires a username and password (unlike Cable services).

It may be that your old system logs on automatically in the background, and
you've just fogotten about it.

Create a new network connection and see if that helps.

HTH
-pk
 
Dual Trace said:
Chuck,
Very interesting reading in your links. So some internet providers will
not
let you switch from one computer to another without waiting some amount of
time.
Click to expand...

That mostly applies to cable services that don't authenticate with usernames
and passwords. On newer systems, you have to power cycle the cable modem
to make it work reliably, with a pause of about a minute between off and on.
It's a quirk of the modem, not ISP policy.

Some older Cable systems authenticated by MAC address. This is what the
"clone MAC address" function on routers is for - you log into the router
from the system that was originally connected to the cable modem, and clone
the address. The Router can then connect immediately. Otherwise, you
have to ask the cable company to reset the cable modem.

In my area, all DSL providers require a username and password, and Cable
providers don't.

As far as I can tell from the Verizon support site, they *do* require a
username and password, like other DSL systems.

HTH
-pk

Then it looks like the new computer would have been able to get the IP
address even without the Windows recovery job, just by waiting long enough
before attempting it. You know, I tend to think this “conspiracy†theory
applies.
Thanks.


Chuck said:
I’ll try to make this as short and clear as possible and then reply with
details as needed / requested.

I have an old computer connected to internet via DSL modem which used to
work fine. Decided to connect a new computer to internet using the same
modem, so I moved the Ethernet cable from the old one to the new one.
The new
one was not able to get the IP address. Went back and forth through the
ipconfig deal with Verizon tech support, but could not make it work.
Tried
the same maneuvers with the old one, just to prove modem and connection
are
fine and indeed everything worked fine when the old computer was hooked.

Tech support from the new computer (HP) advised me to go through the
system
recovery because some Windows socket registry might be corrupted. Done
the
recovery and was able to connect the new computer. IP address, etc. were
acquired and all was OK.

Now I switched the Ethernet cable to the old computer again and guess
what:
it shows the same symptom. Cannot obtain the IP address. Verizon tech
support
said I cannot switch Ethernet cable from one computer to another and
expect
to work because the last computer obtaining an IP address will somehow
keep
that route occupied and the attempt of another one to get an IP address
will
fail. They said I need a router.

Well, how come it worked after restoring the new computer? At that stage
of
the game, the old computer had obtained an IP address and then the new
one
was able to connect and get his as well.

Note: When trying the ipconfig command, both IP and Subnet Mask seem to
get
valid addresses, but none is shown for Default Gateway.

I know this is not black magic, but it certainly looks to me.

Any help is appreciated.
Thank you,
Dual Trace
Click to expand...

You do need a router. I'm surprised that an ISP would actually tell you
that,
though.

Switching two computers back and forth using the same Internet service is
a
dodgy process. With some services, it will work, with others it may work
but
take time for one computer be accepted after another was used previously.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/07/connecting-different-devices-to-your.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/07/connecting-different-devices-to-your.html

My guess is the amount of time that it took you to run the Winsock repair
was
enough time for the one MAC address to clear from the Verizon DHCP
server, and
allow the second address to work. You can't tell though for sure. Only
Verizon
can tell you, if they will.

Get a router, they are not expensive and they will help you in many ways.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/01/proper-network-design.html#Router>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/01/proper-network-design.html#Router

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Patrick,
Just the internet connection works without logging in. For e-mail I need to
use password.
 
Chuck,

Understood. What I don’t understand then is how come three different tech
support guys from Verizon spent a total of more than 2 hours with me going
back and forth through various schemes instead of telling me about the real
issue. Were they that dumb? I thought conspiracy is more plausible.

And by the way, last night I plugged again the old computer and it acquired
an IP address and worked fine. So the waiting period rule applies. Then I
spent all evening moving Outlook files from one to another etc. and this
morning I plugged the new computer and it got connected with no problem.

Thanks again,
Dual Trace


Chuck said:
Chuck,
Very interesting reading in your links. So some internet providers will not
let you switch from one computer to another without waiting some amount of
time. Then it looks like the new computer would have been able to get the IP
address even without the Windows recovery job, just by waiting long enough
before attempting it. You know, I tend to think this “conspiracy†theory
applies.
Click to expand...

No conspiracy. Just how DHCP, and DHCP leases, work. Until a lease expires,
your service isn't going to need a new IP address. That lessens the load on the
DHCP server. Unfortunately, since your computer (if that's what is connected to
the modem) has a different MAC address than the device that was previously
assigned the IP address, its MAC address won't be recognised. Since the IP
address for your connection was already assigned, you don't get another.

MAC addresses is a Layer 2 identity, and DHCP / IP is a Layer 3 identity. This
is just how the layers work.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.
Click to expand...
 
Chuck,

Understood. What I don’t understand then is how come three different tech
support guys from Verizon spent a total of more than 2 hours with me going
back and forth through various schemes instead of telling me about the real
issue. Were they that dumb? I thought conspiracy is more plausible.

And by the way, last night I plugged again the old computer and it acquired
an IP address and worked fine. So the waiting period rule applies. Then I
spent all evening moving Outlook files from one to another etc. and this
morning I plugged the new computer and it got connected with no problem.
Click to expand...

Verizon Tech Support is not known for employing, consistently, the most
technically knowledgeable staff. You were helped by those who are less
technically knowledgeable.

The folks that you talked to aren't the ones that actually maintain the DHCP
servers, and it's always possible that the two groups don't communicate. Which
is one of the advantages of getting help here, or in DSLR Forums.
<http://www.dslreports.com/forum/sharing>
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/sharing

Anyway, I'm glad that we were able to help you sort the problem.

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.
 
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