Trouble Installing Cloned HD

  • Thread starter Thread starter Haz
  • Start date Start date
H

Haz

The saga continues - but a new thread

Purchased a larger HD to become my main C: boot drive. Ran the clone
procedure, replaced the old HD with the new cloned one (actually I have done
this twice - same result.)

When I try to boot with the cloned drive, I get several screens I don't
want:
1) Big DELL logo
2) "Please select the operating system to start, and it lists 'Windows
(default)' twice - for troubleshooting hit F8"
3) Continues in into Windows startup screen
4) Windows logo with flag - comp hangs here

Any suggestions? I believe I have the BIOS/jumpers set right - but never
sure.

Note: Immediately after cloning the new drive (external USB), and while the
original drive was still in the case, the system booted perfectly, although
obviously on the cloned (USB) drive. If I turned off the external cloned
USB drive, it would not boot (could be BIOS difference maybe?)

Appreciate any help

Dave
WinXP SP2 Dell 3000 EIDE
 
Haz said:
The saga continues - but a new thread

Purchased a larger HD to become my main C: boot drive. Ran the clone
procedure, replaced the old HD with the new cloned one (actually I have done
this twice - same result.)

When I try to boot with the cloned drive, I get several screens I don't
want:
1) Big DELL logo
2) "Please select the operating system to start, and it lists 'Windows
(default)' twice - for troubleshooting hit F8"
3) Continues in into Windows startup screen
4) Windows logo with flag - comp hangs here

Any suggestions? I believe I have the BIOS/jumpers set right - but never
sure.

Note: Immediately after cloning the new drive (external USB), and while the
original drive was still in the case, the system booted perfectly, although
obviously on the cloned (USB) drive. If I turned off the external cloned
USB drive, it would not boot (could be BIOS difference maybe?)

Appreciate any help

Dave
WinXP SP2 Dell 3000 EIDE
Click to expand...

Here is a short checklist of things to have been done in order:

1. Install new HD in external USB enclosure, jumpered properly.

2. Power on the computer. Power on the USB enclosure and hook it up
to the USB port in the computer.

3. Run cloning program. Select option to clone entire hard drive to
target HD drive in USB enclosure. Run cloning program to completion.

4. Turn off computer. Open case. Remove original HD. Remove new HD
from USB enclosure, re-jumper accordingly. Install in computer.
Check cable and power connections. Do not run the computer with
both the original and new HD's installed.

5. Turn on computer. Run bios setup to verify that new HD is being
identified. Re-set to Auto-detect, if necessary. Save and exit
bios setup. (The other optional Dell bios settings can be changed
during this stop.)

NOTE: Computer will hang at the Windows logo screen if...(a) Original
hard drive is less than 120 GB and running original Windows XP with no
service pack or (b) New hard drive is greater than 120 GB but bios has
not been upgraded for hard drives greater than 120 GB.

HTH
 
Thank you HT - as you can tell, things are not going well.

Let me make a couple of points based on your (much appreciated )
suggestions:

1) I have basically done steps 1 - 4.
2) Regarding your step 5; I have tried several different BIOS settings,
starting with changing nothing after swapping the drives, i.e.; only HD was
the new now internal cloned drive. This system would not boot.
3) About your 'NOTE' :
Point a) Original HD was less than 120 (40g), and was with original XP Home
edition, but with SP2. I just recalled I lost the original HD early on,
including a Dell partition which contained a bunch of diagnostics. The
machine would not work at all when I got it, and after fooling around for
over 30 days, it still wouldn't work and they would no longer help or take
it back, I cleaned house and stated over BAH! The cloning software showed
it had no partitions, however.

Point b) New HD is 320 gig. About upgrading bios, it was my understanding
SP1 and above corrected the 120-137 gig limitation. At various times, the
320 gig drive has shown up properly on Explorer, about 270 gigs after
cloning. I thought that would address whether the BIOS could handle the
larger drive.

About the bios - not sure how to actually verify the new HD is being
recognized by looking in the bios. Also, how can I confirm the 120 BIOS
limitation has been corrected?

Everything else being equal, I may just run your steps 1 - 5 again. I have
a feeling the new drive is properly cloned, just having trouble getting the
system to recognize it. The comp recognized the new drive after the first
cloning - but the System Restore wouldn't work, so I though I'd try it
again. Not a good idea, I guess.

Thanks again
Dave
 
Haz said:
Thank you HT - as you can tell, things are not going well.

Let me make a couple of points based on your (much appreciated )
suggestions:

1) I have basically done steps 1 - 4.
2) Regarding your step 5; I have tried several different BIOS settings,
starting with changing nothing after swapping the drives, i.e.; only HD was
the new now internal cloned drive. This system would not boot.
3) About your 'NOTE' :
Point a) Original HD was less than 120 (40g), and was with original XP Home
edition, but with SP2. I just recalled I lost the original HD early on,
including a Dell partition which contained a bunch of diagnostics. The
machine would not work at all when I got it, and after fooling around for
over 30 days, it still wouldn't work and they would no longer help or take
it back, I cleaned house and stated over BAH! The cloning software showed
it had no partitions, however.

Point b) New HD is 320 gig. About upgrading bios, it was my understanding
SP1 and above corrected the 120-137 gig limitation. At various times, the
320 gig drive has shown up properly on Explorer, about 270 gigs after
cloning. I thought that would address whether the BIOS could handle the
larger drive.

About the bios - not sure how to actually verify the new HD is being
recognized by looking in the bios. Also, how can I confirm the 120 BIOS
limitation has been corrected?

Everything else being equal, I may just run your steps 1 - 5 again. I have
a feeling the new drive is properly cloned, just having trouble getting the
system to recognize it. The comp recognized the new drive after the first
cloning - but the System Restore wouldn't work, so I though I'd try it
again. Not a good idea, I guess.

Thanks again
Dave
Click to expand...

As you know, there is a significant difference between hardware and
the [Windows] operating system. The bios factors into the equation
insofar as the location of the boot tracks. I think where GRider is
going concerns the physical setup of the first 1,024 cylinders of a
hard drive. In cloning from a small HD (40 GB) to a really large one
(320 GB), the sector-by-sector transfer of the boot track and the
location of the MBR can be misread if LBA or the appropriate bios
HD table does not exist.

OTOH, the bios and Windows will properly identify the new HD due to
its DMTF information in its ID chip.

If all else fails, clone to the first 120 GB of the new hard drive
and partition the remainder as extended, logical drive(s).
 
Thanks - I'm beginning to see a light -
As I mentioned, the original HD was wiped and the operating system
reinstalled from scratch. Does that mean there is no Master Boot Record on
my original HD, and because the clone just copies the HD, there is no MBR on
the clone either?

Dave (on another comp)

GHalleck said:
Thank you HT - as you can tell, things are not going well.

Let me make a couple of points based on your (much appreciated )
suggestions:

1) I have basically done steps 1 - 4.
2) Regarding your step 5; I have tried several different BIOS settings,
starting with changing nothing after swapping the drives, i.e.; only HD
was the new now internal cloned drive. This system would not boot.
3) About your 'NOTE' :
Point a) Original HD was less than 120 (40g), and was with original XP
Home edition, but with SP2. I just recalled I lost the original HD early
on, including a Dell partition which contained a bunch of diagnostics.
The machine would not work at all when I got it, and after fooling around
for over 30 days, it still wouldn't work and they would no longer help or
take it back, I cleaned house and stated over BAH! The cloning software
showed it had no partitions, however.

Point b) New HD is 320 gig. About upgrading bios, it was my
understanding SP1 and above corrected the 120-137 gig limitation. At
various times, the 320 gig drive has shown up properly on Explorer, about
270 gigs after cloning. I thought that would address whether the BIOS
could handle the larger drive.

About the bios - not sure how to actually verify the new HD is being
recognized by looking in the bios. Also, how can I confirm the 120 BIOS
limitation has been corrected?

Everything else being equal, I may just run your steps 1 - 5 again. I
have a feeling the new drive is properly cloned, just having trouble
getting the system to recognize it. The comp recognized the new drive
after the first cloning - but the System Restore wouldn't work, so I
though I'd try it again. Not a good idea, I guess.

Thanks again
Dave
Click to expand...

As you know, there is a significant difference between hardware and
the [Windows] operating system. The bios factors into the equation
insofar as the location of the boot tracks. I think where GRider is
going concerns the physical setup of the first 1,024 cylinders of a
hard drive. In cloning from a small HD (40 GB) to a really large one
(320 GB), the sector-by-sector transfer of the boot track and the
location of the MBR can be misread if LBA or the appropriate bios
HD table does not exist.

OTOH, the bios and Windows will properly identify the new HD due to
its DMTF information in its ID chip.

If all else fails, clone to the first 120 GB of the new hard drive
and partition the remainder as extended, logical drive(s).
Click to expand...
 
Haz said:
Thanks - I'm beginning to see a light -
As I mentioned, the original HD was wiped and the operating system
reinstalled from scratch. Does that mean there is no Master Boot Record on
my original HD, and because the clone just copies the HD, there is no MBR on
the clone either?
Click to expand...

Don't worry about the lost Dell diagnostic partition. The MBR resides
in the original Drive C. When Drive C (or the boot/system partition)
is cloned, because it is sector-by-sector, it goes into Drive C of the
new hard drive. The problem is in the translation. For example, going
from 40 GB to 320 GB, the number of logical heads may change from 2
heads in the former HD to 16 in the latter, assuming that the number
of cylinders and sector size remain constant. The bios needs to have
this information; hence bios updates.

We used to always worry about cylinders, heads and sectors and the 1,024
limit before the LBA bioses had appeared. And, come to think about it, a
different concern may be that Dell has deliberately crippled the bios to
just the HD sizes and types that it supports.
 
Interesting -
I noticed on my original 40G HD, a Hitachi, the jumper label refers to 16
heads.
Dave
 
That's mostly irrelavent. Look in the BIOS with the new 320GB drive
attached to the internal IDE port, and see if you can discern whether or
not the BIOS is seeing the full capacity of the drive. Look for anything
relating to LBA or the total drive size and post back. "LBA supported",
"LBA sectors" perhaps. (LBAsectors * 512)=drive size in bytes. It (the BIOS)
might also just simply report the size.

What did you use to clone the drive? I assume it saw the full capacity
of the drive..?
 
Bill -

I don't have that drive internally at the moment, however, I have had it
there and I believe it shows the full 320 GB
This was done with software that came with the WD 320GB drive. They refer
to it as 'copying' they don't use the word 'cloning' but others have posted
that it worked for them.

Dave
 
It's important to know that the BIOS recognizes the drive as. "Size" or
"LBA sectors".

So, what happens if you try to boot the newly cloned drive without the
old source drive connected? What errors?
 
The saga continues - but a new thread

Purchased a larger HD to become my main C: boot drive.  Ran the clone
procedure, replaced the old HD with the new cloned one (actually I have done
this twice - same result.)

When I try to boot with the cloned drive, I get several screens I don't
want:
1) Big DELL logo
2) "Please select the operating system to start, and it lists 'Windows
(default)' twice - for troubleshooting hit F8"
3) Continues in into Windows startup screen
4) Windows logo with flag - comp hangs here

Any suggestions?  I believe I have the BIOS/jumpers set right - but never
sure.

Note: Immediately after cloning the new drive (external USB), and while the
original drive was still in the case, the system booted perfectly, although
obviously on the cloned (USB) drive.  If I turned off the external cloned
USB drive, it would not boot (could be BIOS difference maybe?)

Appreciate any help

Dave
WinXP SP2 Dell 3000 EIDE
Click to expand...

It seems that you might have been trying to boot with both drives
connected to the IDE ports. Have you tried booting with just the new
larger drive?
 
The saga continues - but a new thread

Purchased a larger HD to become my main C: boot drive. Ran the clone
procedure, replaced the old HD with the new cloned one (actually I have
done
this twice - same result.)

When I try to boot with the cloned drive, I get several screens I don't
want:
1) Big DELL logo
2) "Please select the operating system to start, and it lists 'Windows
(default)' twice - for troubleshooting hit F8"
3) Continues in into Windows startup screen
4) Windows logo with flag - comp hangs here

Any suggestions? I believe I have the BIOS/jumpers set right - but never
sure.

Note: Immediately after cloning the new drive (external USB), and while
the
original drive was still in the case, the system booted perfectly,
although
obviously on the cloned (USB) drive. If I turned off the external cloned
USB drive, it would not boot (could be BIOS difference maybe?)

Appreciate any help

Dave
WinXP SP2 Dell 3000 EIDE
Click to expand...

It seems that you might have been trying to boot with both drives
connected to the IDE ports. Have you tried booting with just the new
larger drive?

IIRC, you are nailing the problem. Don't clone-softwares warn you to
immediately shut down system after cloning, removing original h/d, replacing
newly-cloned drive into its place, and then reboot? Else, the poor comp.
knows NOT where to boot from--at which point all h*** breaks loose? HTH, s
 
Haz said:
Thank you HT - as you can tell, things are not going well.

Let me make a couple of points based on your (much appreciated )
suggestions:

1) I have basically done steps 1 - 4.
2) Regarding your step 5; I have tried several different BIOS settings,
starting with changing nothing after swapping the drives, i.e.; only HD
was the new now internal cloned drive. This system would not boot.
3) About your 'NOTE' :
Point a) Original HD was less than 120 (40g), and was with original XP
Home edition, but with SP2. I just recalled I lost the original HD early
on, including a Dell partition which contained a bunch of diagnostics.
The machine would not work at all when I got it, and after fooling around
for over 30 days, it still wouldn't work and they would no longer help or
take it back, I cleaned house and stated over BAH! The cloning software
showed it had no partitions, however.

Point b) New HD is 320 gig. About upgrading bios, it was my understanding
SP1 and above corrected the 120-137 gig limitation. At various times, the
320 gig drive has shown up properly on Explorer, about 270 gigs after
cloning. I thought that would address whether the BIOS could handle the
larger drive.

About the bios - not sure how to actually verify the new HD is being
recognized by looking in the bios. Also, how can I confirm the 120 BIOS
limitation has been corrected?

Everything else being equal, I may just run your steps 1 - 5 again. I
have a feeling the new drive is properly cloned, just having trouble
getting the system to recognize it. The comp recognized the new drive
after the first cloning - but the System Restore wouldn't work, so I
though I'd try it again. Not a good idea, I guess.

Thanks again
Dave
Click to expand...

Pls. see response to " smlunatick" below. HTH, s
 
That's exactly what I did. Clone new HD as external, install as new
internal (and only drive), boot. Only difference was, all h*** broke loose
anyway. But that was many man-hours ago -

Subsequently, I wiped the new drive, reloaded XP (version -500 from my
original disc), installed 80 (that's 8 * 10) of Bill Gate's latest and best
updates, reloaded many years of software, etc., etc. Piece of cake :-)
Fortunately, data files were both backed up and copied - so that was easy.

I am left with 2 conundrums, however, if you have any thoughts on either I
'd appreciate them:
1) If I add additional users, they do not appear on Explorer, e.g., no way
to move/copy files to the new user, and
2) I really should get some decent backup software. Any suggestions?

Thank you for your interest. It's been fun but I'm basically up and
running -

Dave
 
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