"Carl Ganz" <
[email protected]> schreef in bericht
"Tom Shelton" <
[email protected]> schreef in
berichtnews:OOJdN3%
[email protected]...
"You're right, I'm not the guy in charge and I'm baffled too. I did
manage to convince the firm to make C# their main language. The
developers are really old school VB6 people who have been there at
least 10 years each and are having a hard-time changing. I told them
that they picked the wrong profession if they can't handle change.
These people don't even use stored procs. They drop in-line SQL
wherever they need it in the code. I convinced them that this was a
bad idea and we can use them now."
This is where you went wrong !
Coders who come from Java , C , C++ or anny other curly brace language
feel
much more at home in C# Coders who come from COBOL , FORTRAN , or anny
Basic
variant ( Business Basic , QBasic , VB legacy ) or for a fact anny other
logic operator syntax language ( this could even include python and PHP )
feel mostly much more at home in VB.Net
Forcing VB coders to code in C# will result in .
Coders with lots of business knowledge leaving the companny
Coders who can`t keep up good quality of coding in this "new" language ,
wich will result in longer development cycles , higher maintenance costs
etc etc etc
Coders who might pick up C# pretty quickly ( i dare to say that i can code
as good in C# as in VB ( anny version including legacy ) however as it is
not my native language it takes me 10 times longer to code it , however
lets
say you have a VB coder who really likes the language and favors C# above
VB
why would he work for the companny if he can make annywhere else a few k`s
a
year more ? , and as extra bonus gets more respect from ignorant people
like
you who think C# is bether as VB.Net * wich for a fact it isn`t , it has
just a bether reputation
* You can code just as bad in C# as you can with VB and vice versa , You
can
code as good OOP in C# as you can in VB etc etc etc etc
"VB6 people who have been there at least 10 years"
I started with "Basic" on the C64 in the mid eighties at 13 years of agei
am now 34 years of age so 21 years of basic experience here but i
currently
Code mainly in VS.Net 2008 , for a fact the companny i work for was a
early
adaptor of VS.Net 2008 we rewrote all our projects in November 2007 from
2005 to 2008 and yes we code with Option explicit ON , Option strict ON
and
Option Infer ON .
What i try to say is that anny coder in whatever language he codes should
upgrade his skills when necesary , i always play with Beta MSDN versions
and
when i see something that i can use i make a proposition to my Boss to use
it if i can back it up cost efficiently .
"These people don't even use stored procs"
An why should they have to do this ? , if they code in IO routines (
seperate modules that can be shared among projects ) this might even be a
bether choice in certain situations , i for a fact have once written a
program that could connect to MSSQL , ACCESS , ORACLE , and MYSQL just by
using DBInterfaces in generic classes if you split the data logic there is
nothing wrong with plain SQL How do you think the MS data adapter wizzards
retrieve there data ?
SP`s are the most interesting when you do data batches cause only in these
situation you benefit from the compiled execution plan in other situation
a
Plain SQL statement might even be much faster for data IO , If you thinki
am full of $%%$ read a few books of Bill Vaughn and Buy yourself the
Inside SQL server series ( especially the Delany book ) .
You have made a bad proposition to your boss the costs of development will
go sky high in the near future and the quality will go down the drain, but
hey this is just experience speaking .- Hide quoted text -
You're making a number of assumptions here which are incorrect:
<<Coders with lots of business knowledge leaving the companny>>
The people who are rebuilding the app in C# will then have the
business knowledge and move in to replace the few who leave. I doubt
these VB people will leave anyway and I don't see them getting jobs
elsewhere.
<<Coders who can`t keep up good quality of coding in this "new"
language ,
wich will result in longer development cycles , higher maintenance
costs
etc etc etc>>
Costs will go down as mods will be far more manageable. The VB people
will be assigned tasks befitting their skill sets until they come up
to speed. No one expesct them to become gurus overnight.
<,* You can code just as bad in C# as you can with VB and vice versa ,
You can
code as good OOP in C# as you can in VB etc etc etc etc>>
I agree with you 100%. We 're putiing new standards in place to amke
sure speaghetti code doesn't return in the "just-make-it-work"
atnosphere they've always had here.
<< more respect from ignorant people like
you who think C# is bether as VB.Net * wich for a fact it isn`t , ithas
just a bether reputation>>
C'mon, name calling is appropriate in these forums, Its
unprofessional. In my memo to management I never said, nor do I
belive, that C# is "better" than VB. My point was that the market is
heading to C# and VB is becoming more and more marginlized. We're in
th NYC so at least that's the case here. All the recruiters I speak to
say that most of their reqs are C#. I went to C# for business reasons,
not technical ones. It seems the best people are all interedted in C#.
That's the market reality I hear from many people involved in hiring.
<<Option explicit ON , Option strict ON and Option Infer ON >>
Wonderful, and if these people did the same thing they would be in a
smaller mess right now.
I also never said we couldn't use in-line SQL. I just don't want it
dropped all over creation. Organize it into separate classes so it can
be managed better. There are times where they are building
hierarchical data from relational tables so rather then executed 100s
or 1000s of SQL sattements they could do all the work in an SP and
avoid the lower network IO.
Carl
------------
Carl,
"C'mon, name calling is appropriate in these forums, , Its
unprofessional. ..........."
First of all sorry if this was offending you but it was certainly not my
intention ( remember i am not a native English speaker )
With ignorant people i mean those people outta there that bash VB in favor
of C# while the two are both serving there purpose
"My point was that the market is
heading to C# and VB is becoming more and more marginlized. We're in
th NYC so at least that's the case here. All the recruiters I speak to
say that most of their reqs are C#. I went to C# for business reasons"
Well it is a self furfilling prophecy because everyone is saying that C#
is the "bether" language managers want to hire C# coders
because there are not enough C# coders the prizes of these people rise .
You can take a scholar and teach him / her VB.Net in weeks and thus
profitable in a few months , try the same with C# this is the reasson that
VB will never go away , the learning curve is to high for most people for C#
.
And this is also exactly the problem that VB is facing as it is suchan
easy to learn language it has a verry hughe user base of non professional
coders
however some interview questions when hiring should tackle this.
The market is certainly not heading to C# not internationaly have you ever
heard of the TIOBE index ?
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
As you see VB is rising while C# is stable and the last listing is from
April
VB.Net has another great benefit above all other .Net languages it is a
true RAD language a simple example is raise events VB builds the necesay
delegates for you where in C# you have to code them this means that a
skilled VB developer can code faster as a C# developer with equal knowledge
can .
I believe your companny would have been bether of to switch to VB.Net with
option infer and strict ON , and give the VB6 proggers a good book to read
like "Programming Microsoft Visual basic .Net" from Francesco Balena asit
has special attentions for VB legacy programmers
Then if they have the skills to abandon the VB namespace completely remove
the VB namespace dll ( wich will make VB a non RAD just as C# cause you
loose all the helper functions ) if they can do that well then they can
also write common C# code if they can learn to keep track of the curly
braces and weird variable declarations
For the rest i believe we speak the same language , if i read your response
and between the lines you try to make from bad VB6 coders ( the people that
say Huh ??? if you ask them "is this database BCNF " ) good C# coders well
i wish you lots of luck but i fear the most of them won`t survive :-|
regards
Michel Posseth [MCP]
