to subsite or not to subsite?

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G

Guest

I use a satellite connection to publish a website on US servers. So,
sometimes my connect speed is less than fast. I use FP2003 with all of the
latest updates (according to MS Update anyway).

My web has more the 3000 files and is fatter than 100M in total size. I
have a lot of images that i display using the "photo gallery" option in FP.
(so there are more files being created here....)

I now get what looks like a timeout error ("500 ST not understood") when i
try to publish the whole web. so i started to FTP the individual files to
the ISP. this sort of works - except that it takes me forever as I can only
FTP about 25 files at a time otherwise i get the same timeout error. I want
to be able to use the "publish web site" button so that i don't have to do so
much manual FTP'ing.

It was recommended that i split up the website into a few subsites. So,
after backing the website up I thought i'd give it a try. "How hard can this
be?" I thought.

I was still unable to publish the website with subsites, so I unchecked that
box in the "remote website properties" called "include subsites".

Still no luck. I checked the properties of the remaining website
(presumably without the subsites) and it was shocked to find that the number
of files had not changed!

so - here's the questions:

1 - what is the real max size for FP2003 webs? number of files?
2 - once i move the files form the website to the subsite can they be safely
removed from the website?
3 - what about the FP2003 files and folders? like photo gallery?
4 - do the links for photo galleries work from website to subsite?

any and all help will be very - well - helpful.

thanks

roger
 
1 - what is the real max size for FP2003 webs? number of files?

There is no limit. Any limit is set by the systems invoved in moving
the data from one machine to the other - your PC hardware, The server
hardware, the transmission method and connection speed, what is running
on your PC (to occupy memory etc.), what is running on the server (2
websites or 2000?), how congested is the network?

A few years ago I got time-outs publishing a 750KB website (about 30
pages, not many images) using 37Kbps dial-up. The workaround was to
publish at 5am on Sunday morning. Upgrading the server hardware cured
the problem.
2 - once i move the files form the website to the subsite can they be safely
removed from the website?
Click to expand...

Yes. If you right click on a folder and choose "Convert to web" the
files in that folder are placed in a subweb and removed from the main
web simultaneously.
3 - what about the FP2003 files and folders? like photo gallery?
Click to expand...

I place each gallery in its own subweb.
4 - do the links for photo galleries work from website to subsite?
Click to expand...

Yes - but you may have to code them as absolute links. In practice, I
let FrontPage do the coding and use the Hyperlink dialogue to browse to
the target pages. Subwebs are ALWAYS inside the main web, so relative
links do work. Don't forget links back from the subsite to the main
web.


In my opinion, if FTP times out uploading just 25 files, you will have
major problems publishing your site with FrontPage. The
connection/hardware involved is not good enough. FrontPage requires a
much longer timeout period that an FTP client.
--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp
 
so what you're implying to me is that once you make a folder a subweb it
looks, acts and smells like the folder it once was - but it's not. so -
what's the point in making subwebs in the first place?

funny thing about the 25 file limit - there doesn't seem to be a size limit,
only the number of files. just yesterday i started to upload a 93M file. it
took about 14 hours - but it did work. seems like if there was going to be a
timeout error that would have done it.
 
To the rest of the world it is
- To FP it is a stand alone web that can be published on its own and have all the features of a web (w/i a web)

--

_____________________________________________
SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
"Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
http://www.frontpagemvps.com/FrontPageNewsGroups/tabid/53/Default.aspx
_____________________________________________


| so what you're implying to me is that once you make a folder a subweb it
| looks, acts and smells like the folder it once was - but it's not. so -
| what's the point in making subwebs in the first place?
|
| funny thing about the 25 file limit - there doesn't seem to be a size limit,
| only the number of files. just yesterday i started to upload a 93M file. it
| took about 14 hours - but it did work. seems like if there was going to be a
| timeout error that would have done it.
|
|
|
| "Ronx" wrote:
|
| > > 1 - what is the real max size for FP2003 webs? number of files?
| >
| > There is no limit. Any limit is set by the systems invoved in moving
| > the data from one machine to the other - your PC hardware, The server
| > hardware, the transmission method and connection speed, what is running
| > on your PC (to occupy memory etc.), what is running on the server (2
| > websites or 2000?), how congested is the network?
| >
| > A few years ago I got time-outs publishing a 750KB website (about 30
| > pages, not many images) using 37Kbps dial-up. The workaround was to
| > publish at 5am on Sunday morning. Upgrading the server hardware cured
| > the problem.
| >
| > > 2 - once i move the files form the website to the subsite can they be safely
| > > removed from the website?
| >
| > Yes. If you right click on a folder and choose "Convert to web" the
| > files in that folder are placed in a subweb and removed from the main
| > web simultaneously.
| >
| > > 3 - what about the FP2003 files and folders? like photo gallery?
| >
| > I place each gallery in its own subweb.
| >
| > > 4 - do the links for photo galleries work from website to subsite?
| >
| > Yes - but you may have to code them as absolute links. In practice, I
| > let FrontPage do the coding and use the Hyperlink dialogue to browse to
| > the target pages. Subwebs are ALWAYS inside the main web, so relative
| > links do work. Don't forget links back from the subsite to the main
| > web.
| >
| >
| > In my opinion, if FTP times out uploading just 25 files, you will have
| > major problems publishing your site with FrontPage. The
| > connection/hardware involved is not good enough. FrontPage requires a
| > much longer timeout period that an FTP client.
| > --
| > Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
| > Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
| > FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
| > http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp
| >
| >
| >
| > | >
| > > I use a satellite connection to publish a website on US servers. So,
| > > sometimes my connect speed is less than fast. I use FP2003 with all of the
| > > latest updates (according to MS Update anyway).
| > >
| > > My web has more the 3000 files and is fatter than 100M in total size. I
| > > have a lot of images that i display using the "photo gallery" option in FP.
| > > (so there are more files being created here....)
| > >
| > > I now get what looks like a timeout error ("500 ST not understood") when i
| > > try to publish the whole web. so i started to FTP the individual files to
| > > the ISP. this sort of works - except that it takes me forever as I can only
| > > FTP about 25 files at a time otherwise i get the same timeout error. I want
| > > to be able to use the "publish web site" button so that i don't have to do so
| > > much manual FTP'ing.
| > >
| > > It was recommended that i split up the website into a few subsites. So,
| > > after backing the website up I thought i'd give it a try. "How hard can this
| > > be?" I thought.
| > >
| > > I was still unable to publish the website with subsites, so I unchecked that
| > > box in the "remote website properties" called "include subsites".
| > >
| > > Still no luck. I checked the properties of the remaining website
| > > (presumably without the subsites) and it was shocked to find that the number
| > > of files had not changed!
| > >
| > > so - here's the questions:
| > >
| > > 1 - what is the real max size for FP2003 webs? number of files?
| > > 2 - once i move the files form the website to the subsite can they be safely
| > > removed from the website?
| > > 3 - what about the FP2003 files and folders? like photo gallery?
| > > 4 - do the links for photo galleries work from website to subsite?
| > >
| > > any and all help will be very - well - helpful.
| > >
| > > thanks
| > >
| > > roger
| >
| >
 
To FrontPage a subweb looks, smells and acts like a completely
independent web site. To a browser a subweb is just another folder.
The "completely independent website" aspect is why large sites need to
be broken into subwebs, so that each subweb can be edited and published
without any interaction from the rest of the website.

As for the 25 file limit, it could be a limit your ISP is imposing to
prevent you from hosting your own website or to stop you hogging
bandwidth (I have been with an ISP that placed this kind of limit on
their news-server), but the timeout may be occurring when changing from
one file to the next - but that would not explain *exactly* 25 files.

If there were continuous traffic between your PC and the server there
would not be a time-out, but there is always a pause between files which
when extended by satellite latency could stretch to 1 second and could
be just too much for the server, though I doubt that.
--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp
 
I’m starting to think that their’s no way to really publish a web of that
size using the connection that i have. is there a way to use FP2003 and
publish it in some 'other-than-standard' way that will get the web published?
can i break it up into subwebs small enough to make this all work?

as far as your previous comment about photogalleries - FP2003 makes its own
photogalleries so do i need to mess with the "absolute" vs. "relative" links?
does FP2003 do all of the for me?

thanks for the help so far.
 
It sounds like you will need to break your web into subwebs containing
no more than 25 files each. This will be impractical - your
photogalleries will be limited to about 8 - 10 pictures each, for
example - and FTP may be a better option, though using FTP will prevent
you using components that require the FrontPage extensions.

As far as links are concerned, if you let FrontPage create the links
using the browse option in the hyperlinks dialogues, there will be no
problems regarding relative/absolute links. Links within the
photogalleries are always relative.
--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp
 
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