To defrag or not

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Buddy B buddyb

I read an article recently, PCWorld I think, that said that someone ran
a test and that defragging didn`t make much difference in the way the
cpr ran.
Ideas and comments welcome.
 
Defragging your hard drive is one of the most effective ways
to optimize the performance of your PC. What you read appears
to be utter nonsense.

Utilize the following utility programs, at least monthly, in this order:

Description of the Disk Cleanup Tool in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;310312&Product=winxp

How to Perform Disk Error Checking in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;315265&Product=winxp

HOW TO: Analyze and Defragment a Disk in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;305781&Product=winxp

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


| I read an article recently, PCWorld I think, that said that someone ran
| a test and that defragging didn`t make much difference in the way the
| cpr ran.
| Ideas and comments welcome.
 
I read an article recently, PCWorld I think, that said that someone ran
a test and that defragging didn`t make much difference in the way the
cpr ran.
Ideas and comments welcome.

If you have a HUGE HDD with loads of free (contiguous) space then I can see
the logic behind that. The smaller the disk then the more affect defragging
will have on performance.
 
Defrag will have absolutely no effect on your cpr, however it will improve
performance of your computer slightly.

Testy
 
Testy said:
Defrag will have absolutely no effect on your cpr, however it will improve
performance of your computer slightly.

Testy

I think the OP was using "cpr" as a form of abbreviation for "computer" !
 
-----Original Message-----
I read an article recently, PCWorld I think, that said that someone ran
a test and that defragging didn`t make much difference in the way the
cpr ran.
Ideas and comments welcome.
.


2) Defrag Nay...
The item on "[Is] Defragging Pointless?" (
http://www.langa.com/newsletters/2004/2004-01-22.htm#3 )
brought some interesting mail on both sides of the issue:

Fred, I wasn't sure from the item in the latest LangaList
as to whether you had looked at the PC World item about
defragmenting your hard drive or not. If not, you should
take a look - they mentioned the conventional wisdom that
you gave for why defragmenting will increase performance,
but when they ran actual tests on the matter, they found
no significant increase in performance.

Also, on the issue of partitioning, they were right there
with you, that partitioning made a great deal of sense.

If you haven't already, the article is worth a look - go
to
http://www.pcworld.com/howto/article/0,aid,113743,00.asp
for the start of the main article, and the page with the
tests on defragging
is found at
http://www.pcworld.com/howto/article/1,aid,113743,pg,8,00.
asp
---Tim Fitzpatrick

Thanks, Tim. I did see the piece, but either they
mismeasured, or their definition of what constitutes
a "significant" change differs from mine.

I can see how that might happen. For example, if you
compare the performance of a fragmented drive to a
defragged one over the course of a full day, the
defragged drive's time savings might not seem to add up
to all that much (maybe a couple minutes). One could
argue that that isn't a "significant" improvement. But to
me, having a PC that feels snappier, more responsive and
less "in the way" all day long, is indeed significant.
I'll take a defragged drive any day.

And sometimes, the defrag differences are actually quite
dramatic. See next item.

Click to email this item to a friend
http://langa.com/sendit.htm

return to top of page

3) ...and Yea
Sometimes, defragging makes a *huge* difference:

Hi Fred. On the article in the newsletter on defragging (
http://www.langa.com/newsletters/2004/2004-01-22.htm#3 ),
I completely agree that PC World are dead wrong. I use
chat programs a fair bit as well as surfing the net and
in the past have noticed that my internet connection
(dial-up) would progressively deteriorate until it became
unstable. Once I had defragged though I would be back at
full speed both on chat programs and normal surfing.

And this degradation used to occur once my defragged
level went below 97%. Since then I have regularly
defragged at least once a week and have found not only
does my internet connection work better but both games
and applications I use as well ---Robert Mitchell,
Queensland, Australia

You're probably seeing fragmentation problems with the
internet cache, Robert. By default, Internet Explorer
sets aside a huge cache for itself. That alone can cause
performance issues, but if that huge cache ends up
scattered all over a fragmented drive, your PC will
thrash itself senseless trying to manage the cache as you
surf.

The solution is twofold. First, defragging will help, as
you've seen, because the cache will be all in one easy-to-
access piece. But you also can reduce the raw size of the
cache: In IE, go to Tools/Internet options and in
the "Temporary Internet Files" area use the Settings
button to make the cache something reasonable. (Other
browsers have similar settings.) For dial up systems, 20
or 25MB is usually enough cache. For always-on, high-
speed connections, 10MB or so is all you need.

Keeping the cache reasonably sized, and then keeping it
contiguous (defragged), should eliminate virtually all
cache-related performance problems
 
-----Original Message-----
Defragging your hard drive is one of the most effective ways
to optimize the performance of your PC. What you read appears
to be utter nonsense.

Utilize the following utility programs, at least monthly, in this order:

Description of the Disk Cleanup Tool in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en- us;310312&Product=winxp

How to Perform Disk Error Checking in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en- us;315265&Product=winxp

HOW TO: Analyze and Defragment a Disk in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en- us;305781&Product=winxp
I would be interested to see the objective test data that
led you to the conclusion you so obnoxiously put forth
above. But I know that you have none, and you're just
spewing ingnorant, ill-founded crap.
 
I believe every OP in this post is missing the primary reason for defragging/optimizing. The difference it makes to most users is insignificant. Where the difference and benefit lies is the constant use/movement of the reader/writer head over the disk. The wear and tear are the main reasons for harddrives and CD-Roms to fail or crash. Defragging or optimizing will result in less movement thus a longer life of the harddrive and/or CD-Rom.
 
"I/O performance is strongly influenced by the layout of files on disk.
Files and directories that are heavily fragmented or dispersed across
the disk will hurt performance. While Windows XP will automatically
reposition some files to improve performance, this will generally be
done infrequently and will usually include only a small fraction of the
files on the disk. Therefore, it is a good idea to defragment the disk
following an installation."

Windows XP Performance
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tr...hnet/prodtechnol/winxppro/evaluate/xpperf.asp

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


| I believe every OP in this post is missing the primary reason for defragging/optimizing.
The difference it makes to most users is insignificant. Where the difference and benefit
lies is the constant use/movement of the reader/writer head over the disk. The wear and
tear are the main reasons for harddrives and CD-Roms to fail or crash. Defragging or
optimizing will result in less movement thus a longer life of the harddrive and/or CD-Rom.
 
Actually, Windows XP will perform best when one partition
is used.

"When performing a clean install, Microsoft recommends that
NTFS be used and that the system be installed in a single partition
on each disk. Under Windows XP, big partitions are better managed
than in previous versions of Windows. Forcing installed software
into several partitions on the disk necessitates longer seeks when
running the system and software."

Benchmarking on Windows XP
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hwdev/platform/performance/benchmark.mspx

NTFS Preinstallation and Windows XP
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hwdev/tech/storage/ntfs-preinstall.mspx

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


|
| 2) Defrag Nay...
| The item on "[Is] Defragging Pointless?" (
| http://www.langa.com/newsletters/2004/2004-01-22.htm#3 )
| brought some interesting mail on both sides of the issue:
|
| Fred, I wasn't sure from the item in the latest LangaList
| as to whether you had looked at the PC World item about
| defragmenting your hard drive or not. If not, you should
| take a look - they mentioned the conventional wisdom that
| you gave for why defragmenting will increase performance,
| but when they ran actual tests on the matter, they found
| no significant increase in performance.
|
| Also, on the issue of partitioning, they were right there
| with you, that partitioning made a great deal of sense.
|
| If you haven't already, the article is worth a look - go
| to
| http://www.pcworld.com/howto/article/0,aid,113743,00.asp
| for the start of the main article, and the page with the
| tests on defragging
| is found at
| http://www.pcworld.com/howto/article/1,aid,113743,pg,8,00.
| asp
| ---Tim Fitzpatrick
|
| Thanks, Tim. I did see the piece, but either they
| mismeasured, or their definition of what constitutes
| a "significant" change differs from mine.
|
| I can see how that might happen. For example, if you
| compare the performance of a fragmented drive to a
| defragged one over the course of a full day, the
| defragged drive's time savings might not seem to add up
| to all that much (maybe a couple minutes). One could
| argue that that isn't a "significant" improvement. But to
| me, having a PC that feels snappier, more responsive and
| less "in the way" all day long, is indeed significant.
| I'll take a defragged drive any day.
|
| And sometimes, the defrag differences are actually quite
| dramatic. See next item.
|
| Click to email this item to a friend
| http://langa.com/sendit.htm
|
| return to top of page
|
| 3) ...and Yea
| Sometimes, defragging makes a *huge* difference:
|
| Hi Fred. On the article in the newsletter on defragging (
| http://www.langa.com/newsletters/2004/2004-01-22.htm#3 ),
| I completely agree that PC World are dead wrong. I use
| chat programs a fair bit as well as surfing the net and
| in the past have noticed that my internet connection
| (dial-up) would progressively deteriorate until it became
| unstable. Once I had defragged though I would be back at
| full speed both on chat programs and normal surfing.
|
| And this degradation used to occur once my defragged
| level went below 97%. Since then I have regularly
| defragged at least once a week and have found not only
| does my internet connection work better but both games
| and applications I use as well ---Robert Mitchell,
| Queensland, Australia
|
| You're probably seeing fragmentation problems with the
| internet cache, Robert. By default, Internet Explorer
| sets aside a huge cache for itself. That alone can cause
| performance issues, but if that huge cache ends up
| scattered all over a fragmented drive, your PC will
| thrash itself senseless trying to manage the cache as you
| surf.
|
| The solution is twofold. First, defragging will help, as
| you've seen, because the cache will be all in one easy-to-
| access piece. But you also can reduce the raw size of the
| cache: In IE, go to Tools/Internet options and in
| the "Temporary Internet Files" area use the Settings
| button to make the cache something reasonable. (Other
| browsers have similar settings.) For dial up systems, 20
| or 25MB is usually enough cache. For always-on, high-
| speed connections, 10MB or so is all you need.
|
| Keeping the cache reasonably sized, and then keeping it
| contiguous (defragged), should eliminate virtually all
| cache-related performance problems
|
 
"I/O performance is strongly influenced by the layout of files on disk.
Files and directories that are heavily fragmented or dispersed across
the disk will hurt performance. While Windows XP will automatically
reposition some files to improve performance, this will generally be
done infrequently and will usually include only a small fraction of the
files on the disk. Therefore, it is a good idea to defragment the disk
following an installation."

Windows XP Performance
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tr...hnet/prodtechnol/winxppro/evaluate/xpperf.asp


Fred Langa`s info convinced me.
Thanks to all replyers.
 
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