Thoughts about TUN and SP2

  • Thread starter Thread starter MLC
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M

MLC

Hi to all,

Today I've installed SP2 on my XP Home and now I'm wondering if it's still
safe uninstalling something I had monitored before in SP1 with Total
Uninstall.

Since SP2 has written 'billions' of new key values into the registry, if I
use TUN to uninstall something, I think I'm in danger of rewrite old key
values over the new ones.

What do you think about it?
Would it be safer to start again TUN from scratch?
 
_MLC_, mercoledì 15/set/2004:
Hi to all,

Today I've installed SP2 on my XP Home and now I'm wondering if it's still
safe uninstalling something I had monitored before in SP1 with Total
Uninstall.

Since SP2 has written 'billions' of new key values into the registry, if I
use TUN to uninstall something, I think I'm in danger of rewrite old key
values over the new ones.

What do you think about it?
Would it be safer to start again TUN from scratch?

Is there nobody to help me?
I'd like to uninstall some applications and don't know if it's safe now with
Total Uninstall...
 
MLC wrote in said:
I'd like to uninstall some applications and don't know if it's safe now with
Total Uninstall...

If you used TUN to log a install when you had SP1, and have since
updates with SP2, I would think not safe at all. Use the normal
Windows Control Panel "add/remove programs".

All the best,
Bjorn Simonsen
 
MLC said:
MLC, mercoledì 15/set/2004:


Is there nobody to help me?
I'd like to uninstall some applications and don't know if it's safe
now with Total Uninstall...

Maria Luisa,

I agree with Bjorn... without precautions it can be very awkward, if
not dangerous, to uninstall using TUN after installing SP2. Now, what
you *could* do, is uninstall the applications through the Windows
Control Panel, and delete the entries from TUN. Next, install exactly
the same versions of the programs you just deinstalled... using TUN to
register the registration process... let it record all changes and then
use TUN to uninstall the whole mess (but this time TUN knows about
SP2). Reeat this fror every program you really and completely want to
get rid of...

HtH
Dick
 
_Dick Hazeleger_, venerdì 17/set/2004:
Maria Luisa,

I agree with Bjorn... without precautions it can be very awkward, if
not dangerous, to uninstall using TUN after installing SP2. Now, what
you *could* do, is uninstall the applications through the Windows
Control Panel, and delete the entries from TUN. Next, install exactly
the same versions of the programs you just deinstalled... using TUN to
register the registration process... let it record all changes and then
use TUN to uninstall the whole mess (but this time TUN knows about
SP2). Reeat this fror every program you really and completely want to
get rid of...

These are also the deductions I made after having read Bjorn's message.
Thanks to you both for the help :-)
 
Dick Hazeleger said:
.....

I agree with Bjorn... without precautions it can be very awkward, if
not dangerous, to uninstall using TUN after installing SP2. Now, what
you *could* do, is uninstall the applications through the Windows
Control Panel, and delete the entries from TUN. Next, install exactly
the same versions of the programs you just deinstalled... using TUN to
register the registration process... let it record all changes and then
use TUN to uninstall the whole mess (but this time TUN knows about
SP2). Reeat this fror every program you really and completely want to
get rid of...

Hang on a bit ...

Maybe I'm missing something, but this doesn't sound all that
logical to me. When you use the Windows Control Panel to
uninstall something, aren't you simply running an uninstall
script that was created by the original software designer before
SP2 came into existence?

I can't understand why this would be any more reliable than TUN.

If I have missed something I would be grateful for an explanation
of why the unistall script would be safer than TUN's reversal of
the changes it initially monitored.

Also I don't see much point in uninstalling via the control
panel, then monitoring a re-install with TUN. Surely, if the
control panel uninstall was incomplete (eg fails to remove the
programme's main folder), then TUN won't become aware of those
incompletely removed elements when the reinstall is done, so TUN
will subsequently be unable to do any better uninstall than
Windows control panel did in the first place??

cheers,

John S
 
John said:
Hang on a bit ...

Maybe I'm missing something, but this doesn't sound all that
logical to me. When you use the Windows Control Panel to
uninstall something, aren't you simply running an uninstall
script that was created by the original software designer before
SP2 came into existence?

I can't understand why this would be any more reliable than TUN.

If I have missed something I would be grateful for an explanation
of why the unistall script would be safer than TUN's reversal of
the changes it initially monitored.

Also I don't see much point in uninstalling via the control
panel, then monitoring a re-install with TUN. Surely, if the
control panel uninstall was incomplete (eg fails to remove the
programme's main folder), then TUN won't become aware of those
incompletely removed elements when the reinstall is done, so TUN
will subsequently be unable to do any better uninstall than
Windows control panel did in the first place??

cheers,

John S

Hi John,

Under normal conditions: Yes; however given the impact XP SP2 has, the
new (security related) modules that are installed, and subsequent
entries that are made in the registry ton-wise, and also given the fact
that TUN registers certain area's in your registry during tracing a
registration it is very unwise just to run TUN to get rid of programs
installed before Sp2 was installed.

Add/Remove Programs... sure, but that is just a "dumb follower of
scripts", which for instance won't uninstall ad/spyware that came with
a program, which TUN will do. Most installation scripts are just as
"dumb", they accept user input and will install over any existing
occurrence of the program... which we can make use of when either
repairing a program's installation, or - as in this case - when
updating TUN after SP2 has been installed!

In case of incomplete uninstals, the install script will either offer a
"Repair" (don't do that), an uninstall by itself; after which the
re-install still can take place (always reboot!), or an complete
install which TUN can monitor.

Regards
Dick
 
_John S._, domenica 19/set/2004:
Hang on a bit ...

Maybe I'm missing something, but this doesn't sound all that
logical to me. When you use the Windows Control Panel to
uninstall something, aren't you simply running an uninstall
script that was created by the original software designer before
SP2 came into existence?

I can't understand why this would be any more reliable than TUN.

I think it is because TUN writes again the old values which were changed by
that installation, while an uninstall script AFAIK does not.
If I have missed something I would be grateful for an explanation
of why the unistall script would be safer than TUN's reversal of
the changes it initially monitored.

Also I don't see much point in uninstalling via the control
panel, then monitoring a re-install with TUN. Surely, if the
control panel uninstall was incomplete (eg fails to remove the
programme's main folder), then TUN won't become aware of those
incompletely removed elements when the reinstall is done, so TUN
will subsequently be unable to do any better uninstall than
Windows control panel did in the first place??

True. Then probably it's better to uninstall an 'old' application (before
SP2) with control panel and then to clean the registry with some tool.
 
John S. wrote in said:
I can't understand why this would be any more reliable than TUN.

From TUN help
"In the most of the cases monitored application is a setup
utility but can be also any kind of application or other activity
that make changes in the system."

So any "other activity" that made changes to the system will be
recorded by TUN. Some changes might not be very harmful if you restore
the old settings, but the thing is - you never know. Should be a
particular consern after having upgraded the OS with a large Service
Pack update.

All the best
Bjorn Simonsen
 
John S. said:
Hang on a bit ...

Maybe I'm missing something, but this doesn't sound all that
logical to me. When you use the Windows Control Panel to
uninstall something, aren't you simply running an uninstall
script that was created by the original software designer before
SP2 came into existence?

I can't understand why this would be any more reliable than TUN.

If I have missed something I would be grateful for an explanation
of why the unistall script would be safer than TUN's reversal of
the changes it initially monitored.


A well written uninstall script will cleanly remove all traces of
a program including any registry entries that might have been
added long after the program was installed (eg a change to
the programs preferences might add a new registry value).

TUN will remove the changes it detected between its two
scans, a few of these may have nothing to do with the
installed program and need to be removed from its list
otherwise using it to uninstall might cause problems.

As I recall as a safety feature TUN will not remove registry
values that have been subsequently added to keys that
were created by the install process as it has no way of
knowing which keys were created exclusively for the use
of the monitored program.

I find Tun useful for removing programs where the proper
uninstall fails dismally (I've also used it to uninstall a
spyware app as I didn't trust the supplied uninstaller).
I sometimes use its tun files to create a registry merge file
of what if anything was left behind by a programs
uninstaller so I can edit out anything I'm unsure about
and remove the rest.

(I use TUN with Windows 98 and did a first pass scan
left the system running for a short while followed by a reboot
and let TUN do the second scan without installing anything
to get a list of keys and files I should add to TUN's ignore list)
Also I don't see much point in uninstalling via the control
panel, then monitoring a re-install with TUN. Surely, if the
control panel uninstall was incomplete (eg fails to remove the
programme's main folder), then TUN won't become aware of those
incompletely removed elements when the reinstall is done, so TUN
will subsequently be unable to do any better uninstall than
Windows control panel did in the first place??

I agree, Total Uninstall works using a pre install snapshot
so it will just detect and remove the components the uninstall
script removes anyway, plus any incidental changes made
by windows or background process that have nothing to do
with the install so shouldn't be reversed (unless those modified
folders/registry keys have previously been added to the ignore
list or you manually prune them out). At best it would
do exactly the same job as the uninstall script.

For this to work one would need an uninstaller that monitored
and logged writes to the registry and filesystem as they happened.
 
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