The ultimate Backup method?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mervyn Thomas
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Mervyn Thomas

Can someone tell me how to cover the risk of a complete motherboard / hard
disk failure that could restore a mission critical stand alone PC.
Somehere else I have asked questions about bootable external hard drives and
got confusing answers. Surely there must be a way to collect everything on
a drive and to be able to replace it in a new off the shelf PC!
 
Use a backup utility like Norton Ghost, you can take a complete image of the
machine to another hard drive or CDR

Note, if you are running XP or greater.. that machine you are going to will
need to have the same h/w e.g. motherboard model, hdd model the same as
windows does not like the h/w change, also windows will need re-activating..
 
Thanks - it's never simple is it? I don't suppose the new machine would
have the same MB or disk but newer versions! So would Norton Ghost work if
we left out the OS restore but tried to restore everything else - programs
registry settings etc?
 
| Can someone tell me how to cover the risk of a complete motherboard / hard
| disk failure that could restore a mission critical stand alone PC.
| Somehere else I have asked questions about bootable external hard drives
and
| got confusing answers. Surely there must be a way to collect everything
on
| a drive and to be able to replace it in a new off the shelf PC!
|

Fred Langa has a good backup plan.

Have a look at http://www.langa.com/backups/backups(1).htm

--
Doug

I'm not an MVP a VIP nor do I have ESP.
I was just trying to help.
Please use your own best judgment before implementing any suggestions or
advice herein.
No warranty is expressed or implied.
Your mileage may vary.
See store for details. :)

Remove shoes to E-mail.
 
As mentioned by others you can create a complete system snapshot using
applications like Acronis TrueImage, Symantec Ghost, BootIt NG and a host of
other such programs. I use a 2 prong approach. The first involves a backing
up to a USB hard drive - I have two 120 GB hard drives, each in their own
USB hard drive enclosure. I use Acronis TrueImage to do a full system backup
weekly and I create daily incremental backups of the most important data
that changes frequently, swapping drives and keeping the one not used at an
alternate location in the case of fire or theft.

The one thing to remember when doing a full system restore of a backup image
to a different system - ie. motherboard - you need to run a Repair Install
immediately after you load the image and before attempting to boot to the
Desktop. this is necessary in order to rebuild the HAL. During a Repair
Install you will be asked fro your Product Key so have that handy. You may
also have to Reactivate once you've completed the Repair Install and you
will need to revisit the Windows Update Site for Service Packs and updates
however all other installed programs and you data should be retained.
 
Mervyn Thomas said:
Can someone tell me how to cover the risk of a complete motherboard / hard
disk failure that could restore a mission critical stand alone PC.
Somehere else I have asked questions about bootable external hard drives
and got confusing answers. Surely there must be a way to collect
everything on a drive and to be able to replace it in a new off the shelf
PC!


If it is a mission critical host, backups are not your first concern (but
definitely your second concern). The first concern is reliability in uptime
(i.e., hardware disaster recovery). For that, you should be looking for a
system with RAID 10 (RAID 1+0) or RAID 5 so the system stays up and can be
brought up very fast. Other factors would be dual power supplies, or a
supply with built-in UPS, or an external UPS to keep the system up (since a
local power outage may not also cause a network outage). Surge protection
is best performed back in the electrical system, not using endpoint devices
at the host, especially since this usually results in multiple surge devices
used for devices connected to one host that could be 10 feet apart on the
separate devices and incur a 400V+ surge across that 10-foot span of cords
between the surge devices. If the power is protected and if the hardware
isn't duplicated then it really is not a mission critical host.

Don't think RAID-1 (mirroring) provides data backup. It provides hardware
backup; i.e., you can use the mirrored drive when the primary drive fails
but the mirrored drive has the SAME files as the primary drive had (i.e., no
data backup). Same for all RAID; i.e., RAID is not use for data backup.
You could use logical backup programs (i.e., they backup/restore files and
do so through the file system in the operating system) but that backs up the
users' data. Obviously if the target for the backup files is the hard
drive(s) in the host then hardware loss in the host could result in losing
your backups, so you need to backup to a different host through the network.
Alternatively, require that all data files be created, stored, and modified
on a file server host (because nothing on the local host gets backed up).
Obviously how well this works depends on how fat is the pipe to the file
server: too little bandwidth and your users will be screaming about delays
to their work while waiting for files to update or contention over the
limited resources of the file server.

You could use something like RestoreIt or GoBack to provide the equivalent
of imaging that also provides incremental updates, akin to file versioning
on mainframes. That would allow the host's user to restore back to a known
state. The System Restore provided in Windows XP is not reliable.
Alternatively, you could simply save disk or partition images (but, again,
not on the same drive and preferrably off the host to avoid loss when
hardware fails). Acronis TrueImage permits full disk and partition images
along with incremental updates; however, I don't know if it works well to
save the image files over a network to another host. Incremental updates
only work well when using its hidden partition on an internal hard drive, so
you could lose your incrementals (so periodically wipe them by doing full
images to removable media).

If you think using an external hard drive provides reliable backup, remember
that when the mechanicals of the hard drive fail then you lose all your
backups. You are making logical data backups to circumvent user error
(i.e., deletes caused by the user) or hardware failure. Why do backups of
your mechanical hard drive to another mechanical hard drive? An external or
auxilliary internal hard drive that is used only for backups should be used
only for short-term backups, like daily incrementals for one week so, at
most, when the mechanical drive fails then you lose only one week's worth of
data. Permanent or long-term backups should be stored on media that is
separate of the drive mechanicals, like tape, CD-R, DVD-R, Zip, or whatever.
If the backup drive's hardware fails, you can buy another one and continue
to use the removable media.

NEVER do a backup with enabling its verify option. What good is a backup
that you cannot read later to retrieve the files on it? This doubles the
time to do the backup, but an unverified backup can be a huge waste of time.
You end up spending hundreds of hours doing backups only to find out later
that you cannot read from [some of] them.

Since you mention your host is a mission critical host but neglect to
provide ANY details of the network under which it operates, we really don't
know what you mean or how much protection would be sufficient or what is
your budget.
 
: Can someone tell me how to cover the risk of a complete motherboard / hard
: disk failure that could restore a mission critical stand alone PC.
: Somehere else I have asked questions about bootable external hard drives
and
: got confusing answers. Surely there must be a way to collect everything
on
: a drive and to be able to replace it in a new off the shelf PC!
:
----------
Mervyn for me the following is the Ultimate Backup Method.

I use Norton's Ghost, version 2003, from a floppy (3.5) disk.

My computer has two hard drives, both the same size. Once each week (Friday
night or Saturday morning) I use Ghost to transfer ALL files from C to D
drive. Drive D is not used except to back up drive C each week. I do not
trust the image methods.

Should drive C crash you still have drive D disk which can be installed in
the same computer as the master disk. You will have to change the cables.
Buy another hard drive to replaced the crash hard drive and use Ghost to
backup the working drive.

Should drive D crash you buy another disk to replace it and use Ghost from C
to D drive. If I make any major changes to drive C during the week
(installing a new program, etc. etc.) I wait two days and then run the Ghost
program. The reason for the two day wait is to insure the new program or
procedure works correctly. If it does not work properly I then use Ghost
from D drive to C drive. I still repeat the weekly Ghost on the next
weekend.

In the above method you will loose any data files you have done the past
week. To insure that you do not loose daily work you can use an external
4Gb flash drive or an external hard drive to backup those daily files.

Hope this helps and does not confuse.

Bquinn
 
Thanks Harry - your'e the only one who seemed to appreciate restoring the
operating system! Just a little additional query - is the Product Key the
code on the CD envelope for the XP software or can it be found somewhere on
the system?
Mervyn

Harry Ohrn said:
As mentioned by others you can create a complete system snapshot using
applications like Acronis TrueImage, Symantec Ghost, BootIt NG and a host
of
other such programs. I use a 2 prong approach. The first involves a
backing
up to a USB hard drive - I have two 120 GB hard drives, each in their own
USB hard drive enclosure. I use Acronis TrueImage to do a full system
backup
weekly and I create daily incremental backups of the most important data
that changes frequently, swapping drives and keeping the one not used at
an
alternate location in the case of fire or theft.

The one thing to remember when doing a full system restore of a backup
image
to a different system - ie. motherboard - you need to run a Repair Install
immediately after you load the image and before attempting to boot to the
Desktop. this is necessary in order to rebuild the HAL. During a Repair
Install you will be asked fro your Product Key so have that handy. You may
also have to Reactivate once you've completed the Repair Install and you
will need to revisit the Windows Update Site for Service Packs and updates
however all other installed programs and you data should be retained.

--

Harry Ohrn MS-MVP [Shell/User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp


Mervyn Thomas said:
Can someone tell me how to cover the risk of a complete motherboard /
hard
disk failure that could restore a mission critical stand alone PC.
Somehere else I have asked questions about bootable external hard drives and
got confusing answers. Surely there must be a way to collect everything on
a drive and to be able to replace it in a new off the shelf PC!
 
After reading your original statement and the other responses, I offer these
comments:
A. There are two basic types of backups (1) Copy of the entire drive [image
or ghost by such programs as Norton's Ghost 9 or Acronis True Image] which
offers complete restoration to the original computer. You will have
problems if you have to use a different computer; (2) Programs which will
back up your personal files such as My Documents, Windows Address Book,
E-mail folders, plus other stuff you create which would be lost if you had
to completely re-install Windows. Programs such as Argentum Backup or Genie
Backup Manager Pro.
b. I think you would need both type of backups based on your statement that
the stuff is mission critical.
Gene K
 
Thanks to you all who have answered. It now seems to me that it is
virtually impossible to do a total restore on a new machine especially if it
has a different configuration. So now my question is how do you identify
what files and registry entries are associated with particular programmes so
that some sort of backup script can be written as required bythe other type
of backup programmes? So my approach is to give up trying to back up the
operating system, data backup is easy, but those host of programs bought
years ago on 20 floppies, downloaded, borrowed etc - that is where the
problem lies!

And I thought this would be an easy exercise!!

Mervyn
 
Thanks to you all who have answered. It now seems to me that it is
virtually impossible to do a total restore on a new machine especially if it
has a different configuration.

That's not quite true. I have done a couple ghost images and restored
them to different systems, then one a repair/reinstall of XP and with
new drivers everything has worked fine.

There are several things you can do to make the process easier:

Uninstall NIC, Video, Sound, drivers for hardware not on the new system.

Once you have done that, make the IMAGE of the ENTIRE DRIVE, copy it to
a couple DVD's (or CD's) or a FAT32 Disk drive. Now you can restore it
to the new system in short order, run the repair/reinstall, and it will
be up and running.
So now my question is how do you identify
what files and registry entries are associated with particular programmes so
that some sort of backup script can be written as required bythe other type
of backup programmes? So my approach is to give up trying to back up the
operating system, data backup is easy, but those host of programs bought
years ago on 20 floppies, downloaded, borrowed etc - that is where the
problem lies!

And I thought this would be an easy exercise!!

Reinstalling programs without the source is never easy :)
 
Hi Mervyn,

People touting good backup options always seem to drift to two poles
-- the group advising total ghosting of your system periodically -- and
the group advising automated backup of your generated data only.

The problem with the first is that it's enough of a pain that people
tend to do it infrequently (perhaps weekly) which puts a week's data in
jeopardy. The second approach is also flawed because re-establishing
your system state can be very difficult and time consuming.

I suggest combining the two approaches on the cheap by separating out
all your personal and generated data into discrete folders (for
example, move your desktop, bookmarks, email and address books to the
"my documents" folder) then use inexpensive or free backup tools like
TaskZIP, SyncBack or Back2zip to keep that data backed up daily to
another drive or another computer. Then ghost your system once every
couple weeks or so also. If you do both, restoration will be quick and
easy with minimal data loss.

Here is a little roundup of some freeware backup tools which are
adequate for this:

http://free-backup.info/backup-software.htm
 
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