The Big Question...

[Terry Mulvany]

I am constantly struggling with the problem of what 'type' of application to
develop. WinForm or WebForm?
The customer says I need a central database for all sites but the sites are
geographically disperse limited to DSL Internet access (VPN solution not an
option due to huge support burden).
The users at each site want a rich, high performance interface but the folks
back at headquarters want a birds-eye view of all data.
It would be nice to provide a solution that provides the richness and
performance of Java Applets all hitting a central DB. I've tried no-touch
deployment/href exe and do not like the fact that I'm restricted to the
IEExec 'sandbox'.
What is the equivalent to Java Applet in .NET?
I spent 10 minutes slapping together a quick href exe that just brings up a
form and I launched it over the Internet and was pleased with it, but when I
tried adding simple DB access (to SQL Server), either directly through
ADO.NET SqlClient or through a Web Service... nightmare! All kinds of
security errors. In my opinion the only protection .NET should provide is
on the client machine (file I/O, registry, etc.), not on the server as in
the case of DB access. I even gots error when I added that web site (where
the exe lives) as a Trusted Site in IE. Are these errors correctable on the
server or the client? If it's the client, then we would have to support
hundreds of people which would be crazy!
Any advise or recommended reading on this supject is greatly appreciated.

-Terry Mulvany

 

[Alvin Bruney [MVP]]

Your big question is answered in your requirements. If you need a rich
client interface, you will probably need windows forms. If what you need a
thin client accessible from a browser, you will no doubt need a webforms
application.

The client is not related to the database as they are able to talk to a
datasource. This distributed model works best when the datasource is not on
the client machine but rather on the server. This eliminates the need to
support each and every client desktop. Design your application in such a way
that the data tier layer talks to the datasource for data retrieval and the
client end talks to the datatier level.

One good resource is matthew macdonalds distributed applications book. It
hashes out the discerning differences between each model and explores when
to use each model.

 

[Terry Mulvany]

Thanks for the reply, but I think you are missing what I am asking.
Many sites, goegraphically disperse all need access to a central db back at
headquarters (obviously on a server, i know db's do not run on clients).
sites need to do data entry, run reports, etc.(rich interface) against this
remote db. now there's the webform (remote) solution (slow, lack of
richness) and the winform (local lan) solution (rich and fast).
is there a way for the remote users to use a winforms app 'over the
internet' like a java applet does without the headaches of .net remoting or
the ieexec sandbox?
thanks.

Your big question is answered in your requirements. If you need a rich
client interface, you will probably need windows forms. If what you need a
thin client accessible from a browser, you will no doubt need a webforms
application.

The client is not related to the database as they are able to talk to a
datasource. This distributed model works best when the datasource is not on
the client machine but rather on the server. This eliminates the need to
support each and every client desktop. Design your application in such a way
that the data tier layer talks to the datasource for data retrieval and the
client end talks to the datatier level.

One good resource is matthew macdonalds distributed applications book. It
hashes out the discerning differences between each model and explores when
to use each model.
--
Regards,
Alvin Bruney [ASP.NET MVP]
Got tidbits? Get it here...
http://tinyurl.com/3he3b

I am constantly struggling with the problem of what 'type' of

application

to
develop. WinForm or WebForm?
The customer says I need a central database for all sites but the sites are
geographically disperse limited to DSL Internet access (VPN solution not an
option due to huge support burden).
The users at each site want a rich, high performance interface but the folks
back at headquarters want a birds-eye view of all data.
It would be nice to provide a solution that provides the richness and
performance of Java Applets all hitting a central DB. I've tried no-touch
deployment/href exe and do not like the fact that I'm restricted to the
IEExec 'sandbox'.
What is the equivalent to Java Applet in .NET?
I spent 10 minutes slapping together a quick href exe that just brings

up

a
form and I launched it over the Internet and was pleased with it, but

when

I
tried adding simple DB access (to SQL Server), either directly through
ADO.NET SqlClient or through a Web Service... nightmare! All kinds of
security errors. In my opinion the only protection .NET should provide is
on the client machine (file I/O, registry, etc.), not on the server as in
the case of DB access. I even gots error when I added that web site (where
the exe lives) as a Trusted Site in IE. Are these errors correctable on the
server or the client? If it's the client, then we would have to support
hundreds of people which would be crazy!
Any advise or recommended reading on this supject is greatly appreciated.

-Terry Mulvany

 

[Nick Malik]

Hello Terry,

Alvin's advice is good. Check out the book he recommends.

I think the point is that your rich client can access services that you run
on the
web server. Those services can handle business rules for you, and can
provide
the data that the clients need. The services connect to the database.

The equivalent of Java Applets in .NET? (the answer is .NET remoting
objects running in Component Services).

Just because you have a few security problems, don't give up.

--- Nick

Thanks for the reply, but I think you are missing what I am asking.
Many sites, goegraphically disperse all need access to a central db back at
headquarters (obviously on a server, i know db's do not run on clients).
sites need to do data entry, run reports, etc.(rich interface) against this
remote db. now there's the webform (remote) solution (slow, lack of
richness) and the winform (local lan) solution (rich and fast).
is there a way for the remote users to use a winforms app 'over the
internet' like a java applet does without the headaches of .net remoting or
the ieexec sandbox?
thanks.

Your big question is answered in your requirements. If you need a rich
client interface, you will probably need windows forms. If what you need a
thin client accessible from a browser, you will no doubt need a webforms
application.

The client is not related to the database as they are able to talk to a
datasource. This distributed model works best when the datasource is not on
the client machine but rather on the server. This eliminates the need to
support each and every client desktop. Design your application in such a way
that the data tier layer talks to the datasource for data retrieval and the
client end talks to the datatier level.

One good resource is matthew macdonalds distributed applications book. It
hashes out the discerning differences between each model and explores when
to use each model.
--
Regards,
Alvin Bruney [ASP.NET MVP]
Got tidbits? Get it here...
http://tinyurl.com/3he3b

I am constantly struggling with the problem of what 'type' of

application

to
develop. WinForm or WebForm?
The customer says I need a central database for all sites but the

sites
are

geographically disperse limited to DSL Internet access (VPN solution

not
an

option due to huge support burden).
The users at each site want a rich, high performance interface but the folks
back at headquarters want a birds-eye view of all data.
It would be nice to provide a solution that provides the richness and
performance of Java Applets all hitting a central DB. I've tried no-touch
deployment/href exe and do not like the fact that I'm restricted to the
IEExec 'sandbox'.
What is the equivalent to Java Applet in .NET?
I spent 10 minutes slapping together a quick href exe that just brings

up

a
form and I launched it over the Internet and was pleased with it, but

when

I
tried adding simple DB access (to SQL Server), either directly through
ADO.NET SqlClient or through a Web Service... nightmare! All kinds of
security errors. In my opinion the only protection .NET should

provide

is on
the

 

[Peter Strøiman]

As far as I can tell from your problem, you need to modify the .Net
Framework Security on the client computer.
You could add things like "Applications run from the following URL:" has
unlimited rights.
When modified I think you can export those definitions so the clients can
easily append it to their own framework security. And then there should be
no problem running the app.

You claim that security is too tight, that the sandbox model should only
prevent access to files and registry. But that is not exactly a correct
point of view. If that was the case a malicious program could open up
database connections to every database in your company and post all the data
to a remote web service.

Regards,
Peter

Thanks for the reply, but I think you are missing what I am asking.
Many sites, goegraphically disperse all need access to a central db back at
headquarters (obviously on a server, i know db's do not run on clients).
sites need to do data entry, run reports, etc.(rich interface) against this
remote db. now there's the webform (remote) solution (slow, lack of
richness) and the winform (local lan) solution (rich and fast).
is there a way for the remote users to use a winforms app 'over the
internet' like a java applet does without the headaches of .net remoting or
the ieexec sandbox?
thanks.

Your big question is answered in your requirements. If you need a rich
client interface, you will probably need windows forms. If what you need a
thin client accessible from a browser, you will no doubt need a webforms
application.

The client is not related to the database as they are able to talk to a
datasource. This distributed model works best when the datasource is not on
the client machine but rather on the server. This eliminates the need to
support each and every client desktop. Design your application in such a way
that the data tier layer talks to the datasource for data retrieval and the
client end talks to the datatier level.

One good resource is matthew macdonalds distributed applications book. It
hashes out the discerning differences between each model and explores when
to use each model.
--
Regards,
Alvin Bruney [ASP.NET MVP]
Got tidbits? Get it here...
http://tinyurl.com/3he3b

I am constantly struggling with the problem of what 'type' of

application

to
develop. WinForm or WebForm?
The customer says I need a central database for all sites but the

sites
are

geographically disperse limited to DSL Internet access (VPN solution

not
an

option due to huge support burden).
The users at each site want a rich, high performance interface but the folks
back at headquarters want a birds-eye view of all data.
It would be nice to provide a solution that provides the richness and
performance of Java Applets all hitting a central DB. I've tried no-touch
deployment/href exe and do not like the fact that I'm restricted to the
IEExec 'sandbox'.
What is the equivalent to Java Applet in .NET?
I spent 10 minutes slapping together a quick href exe that just brings

up

a
form and I launched it over the Internet and was pleased with it, but

when

I
tried adding simple DB access (to SQL Server), either directly through
ADO.NET SqlClient or through a Web Service... nightmare! All kinds of
security errors. In my opinion the only protection .NET should

provide

is on
the

 

[Terry Mulvany]

Thanks and good points on the security.

As far as I can tell from your problem, you need to modify the .Net
Framework Security on the client computer.
You could add things like "Applications run from the following URL:" has
unlimited rights.
When modified I think you can export those definitions so the clients can
easily append it to their own framework security. And then there should be
no problem running the app.

You claim that security is too tight, that the sandbox model should only
prevent access to files and registry. But that is not exactly a correct
point of view. If that was the case a malicious program could open up
database connections to every database in your company and post all the data
to a remote web service.

Regards,
Peter

Thanks for the reply, but I think you are missing what I am asking.
Many sites, goegraphically disperse all need access to a central db back at
headquarters (obviously on a server, i know db's do not run on clients).
sites need to do data entry, run reports, etc.(rich interface) against this
remote db. now there's the webform (remote) solution (slow, lack of
richness) and the winform (local lan) solution (rich and fast).
is there a way for the remote users to use a winforms app 'over the
internet' like a java applet does without the headaches of .net remoting or
the ieexec sandbox?
thanks.

need

a

thin client accessible from a browser, you will no doubt need a webforms
application.

The client is not related to the database as they are able to talk to a
datasource. This distributed model works best when the datasource is

not
on

the client machine but rather on the server. This eliminates the need to
support each and every client desktop. Design your application in such

a
way

that the data tier layer talks to the datasource for data retrieval

and
the

client end talks to the datatier level.

One good resource is matthew macdonalds distributed applications book. It
hashes out the discerning differences between each model and explores when
to use each model.
--
Regards,
Alvin Bruney [ASP.NET MVP]
Got tidbits? Get it here...
http://tinyurl.com/3he3b
I am constantly struggling with the problem of what 'type' of application
to
develop. WinForm or WebForm?
The customer says I need a central database for all sites but the sites
are
geographically disperse limited to DSL Internet access (VPN solution not
an
option due to huge support burden).
The users at each site want a rich, high performance interface but the
folks
back at headquarters want a birds-eye view of all data.
It would be nice to provide a solution that provides the richness and
performance of Java Applets all hitting a central DB. I've tried no-touch
deployment/href exe and do not like the fact that I'm restricted to the
IEExec 'sandbox'.
What is the equivalent to Java Applet in .NET?
I spent 10 minutes slapping together a quick href exe that just

brings
up

a
form and I launched it over the Internet and was pleased with it,

but
when

I
tried adding simple DB access (to SQL Server), either directly through
ADO.NET SqlClient or through a Web Service... nightmare! All kinds of
security errors. In my opinion the only protection .NET should

provide

is
on the client machine (file I/O, registry, etc.), not on the server

as
in

the case of DB access. I even gots error when I added that web site (where
the exe lives) as a Trusted Site in IE. Are these errors

correctable

on

 

[Terry Mulvany]

Thanks, I was giving some thought to this solution. In other words, write a
winform app that the remote sites use that accesses the db back at
headquarters via Web Services. The only problem is that the client app is
also uses to view reports (Crystal) and I don't think you can write those to
access the DB via a web service, they would require a trusted connection as
if they were on the LAN. Big problem because they absolutely need reporting
(and crystal is our reporting solution).

Hello Terry,

Alvin's advice is good. Check out the book he recommends.

I think the point is that your rich client can access services that you run
on the
web server. Those services can handle business rules for you, and can
provide
the data that the clients need. The services connect to the database.

The equivalent of Java Applets in .NET? (the answer is .NET remoting
objects running in Component Services).

Just because you have a few security problems, don't give up.

--- Nick

Thanks for the reply, but I think you are missing what I am asking.
Many sites, goegraphically disperse all need access to a central db back at
headquarters (obviously on a server, i know db's do not run on clients).
sites need to do data entry, run reports, etc.(rich interface) against this
remote db. now there's the webform (remote) solution (slow, lack of
richness) and the winform (local lan) solution (rich and fast).
is there a way for the remote users to use a winforms app 'over the
internet' like a java applet does without the headaches of .net remoting or
the ieexec sandbox?
thanks.

need

a

thin client accessible from a browser, you will no doubt need a webforms
application.

The client is not related to the database as they are able to talk to a
datasource. This distributed model works best when the datasource is

not
on

the client machine but rather on the server. This eliminates the need to
support each and every client desktop. Design your application in such

a
way

that the data tier layer talks to the datasource for data retrieval

and
the

client end talks to the datatier level.

One good resource is matthew macdonalds distributed applications book. It
hashes out the discerning differences between each model and explores when
to use each model.
--
Regards,
Alvin Bruney [ASP.NET MVP]
Got tidbits? Get it here...
http://tinyurl.com/3he3b
I am constantly struggling with the problem of what 'type' of application
to
develop. WinForm or WebForm?
The customer says I need a central database for all sites but the sites
are
geographically disperse limited to DSL Internet access (VPN solution not
an
option due to huge support burden).
The users at each site want a rich, high performance interface but the
folks
back at headquarters want a birds-eye view of all data.
It would be nice to provide a solution that provides the richness and
performance of Java Applets all hitting a central DB. I've tried no-touch
deployment/href exe and do not like the fact that I'm restricted to the
IEExec 'sandbox'.
What is the equivalent to Java Applet in .NET?
I spent 10 minutes slapping together a quick href exe that just

brings
up

a
form and I launched it over the Internet and was pleased with it,

but
when

I
tried adding simple DB access (to SQL Server), either directly through
ADO.NET SqlClient or through a Web Service... nightmare! All kinds of
security errors. In my opinion the only protection .NET should

provide

is
on the client machine (file I/O, registry, etc.), not on the server

as
in

the case of DB access. I even gots error when I added that web site (where
the exe lives) as a Trusted Site in IE. Are these errors

correctable

on

 

[Peter Strøiman]

I don't know exactly how CR works, but I would guess that they can accept
data-sets to generate their view?
You can surely pass data-sets through a web service

Thanks, I was giving some thought to this solution. In other words, write a
winform app that the remote sites use that accesses the db back at
headquarters via Web Services. The only problem is that the client app is
also uses to view reports (Crystal) and I don't think you can write those to
access the DB via a web service, they would require a trusted connection as
if they were on the LAN. Big problem because they absolutely need reporting
(and crystal is our reporting solution).

Hello Terry,

Alvin's advice is good. Check out the book he recommends.

I think the point is that your rich client can access services that you run
on the
web server. Those services can handle business rules for you, and can
provide
the data that the clients need. The services connect to the database.

The equivalent of Java Applets in .NET? (the answer is .NET remoting
objects running in Component Services).

Just because you have a few security problems, don't give up.

--- Nick

back
at remoting
or need

to

a

need

to

such

a

way
that the data tier layer talks to the datasource for data retrieval and
the
client end talks to the datatier level.

One good resource is matthew macdonalds distributed applications

book.
It

hashes out the discerning differences between each model and

explores
when

to use each model.
--
Regards,
Alvin Bruney [ASP.NET MVP]
Got tidbits? Get it here...
http://tinyurl.com/3he3b
I am constantly struggling with the problem of what 'type' of
application
to
develop. WinForm or WebForm?
The customer says I need a central database for all sites but the sites
are
geographically disperse limited to DSL Internet access (VPN

solution
not

an
option due to huge support burden).
The users at each site want a rich, high performance interface but the
folks
back at headquarters want a birds-eye view of all data.
It would be nice to provide a solution that provides the richness and
performance of Java Applets all hitting a central DB. I've tried
no-touch
deployment/href exe and do not like the fact that I'm restricted

to
the

IEExec 'sandbox'.
What is the equivalent to Java Applet in .NET?
I spent 10 minutes slapping together a quick href exe that just brings
up
a
form and I launched it over the Internet and was pleased with it, but
when
I
tried adding simple DB access (to SQL Server), either directly through
ADO.NET SqlClient or through a Web Service... nightmare! All

kinds

of

server

as correctable