The ACF faq.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Roger Johansson
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Roger Johansson

Q: What is freeware?

Freeware is software you can legally download from internet and use
for free.

Freeware is not the same thing as pirated, cracked software.

Freeware is available in many different forms, like open source,
public domain, adware, nagware, beta, time limited, demo, lite
versions, etc..

The usefulness of freeware can be more or less limited by ads, nags,
time limitations, etc.. Of course we prefer freeware which is as
valuable as possible, without much limitations.

Q: If I want to tell others about a freeware program I have found,
what should I think about?

Tell the readers where they can find it, how big it is, what the value
of the program is, what the purpose of the program is, what (if any)
limitations it has.

Before you tell others about a program you could check if it already
is included in the list at www.pricelessware.org which is the groups
list of good freeware programs.

Please remember that this newsgroup is a global newsgroup open for all
ages and all kinds of people. Avoid foul language, abusive or
patronizing attitudes, etc..
We like to have a friendly and helpful atmosphere in the group.

If others do things you think are wrong, like top posting or
announcing non-freeware, ignore it, or help them realize that it was
not so good to do so.
A friendly word now and then is better than jumping on every
occurrence of what you think is wrong.

Newcomers may even learn from the good example of the others after a
while, without being told what to do at all.

(If you don't like this FAQ, write your own, we cannot have too many
faqs, can we? :-)
 
(If you don't like this FAQ, write your own, we cannot have too many
faqs, can we? :-)
Click to expand...

I like it. I would just change:

"Freeware is software you can legally download from internet and used
for free".

to

"Freeware is software that can be legally used without monitary
payment to the author and/or copyright owner".


There are sources other than the Internet from which freeware can be
obtained; although the Internet is the primary source IMO.

Nice job Roger.
 
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:34:02 +0100, Roger Johansson wrote:

Careful Roger. Common Sense will get you badly flamed in this group.

Seriously though (comments in line).
Q: What is freeware?

Freeware is software you can legally download from internet and use
for free.
Click to expand...

Agreed and agree with Vic Dura's comment.
Freeware is not the same thing as pirated, cracked software.
Click to expand...

Absolutely and I'm sure every regular poster here agrees.
Freeware is available in many different forms, like open source,
public domain, adware, nagware, beta, time limited, demo, lite
versions, etc..
Click to expand...

Here is where the contention creeps in.

Many people quite rightly believe adware equates with spyware and in many
cases it does. Some of it quite diabolical spyware. Others (like Opera)
are quite benign.

Beta is OK if it's of a freeware program (after all freeware authors
need feedback to iron out bugs just as much as commercial developers) but
I've got an 180 day time limited beta of Windows Server 2003 sitting on my
deak in front of me. Freeware it ain't.

Demo can't seriously be considered freeware, they are always demos for
commercial products. I've never seen a freeware demo.

Lite versions (crippleware in some peoples minds) are always a source of
argument usually on the basis of "I use so it's OK", "no it isn't", "yes
it is", "my dick's bigger than yours", "na na na na"). By the strictest
definition by the fanatics very popular programs like EditPad Lite are
"crippleware". But the fanatics aren't renowned for consistency.
The usefulness of freeware can be more or less limited by ads, nags,
time limitations, etc.. Of course we prefer freeware which is as
valuable as possible, without much limitations.
Click to expand...

Oh Oh! See ridiculous 200 post thread on 40tidude Dialog (probably
misspelled since I killed the thread long ago)
Q: If I want to tell others about a freeware program I have found, what
should I think about?

Tell the readers where they can find it, how big it is, what the value
of the program is, what the purpose of the program is, what (if any)
limitations it has.

Before you tell others about a program you could check if it already is
included in the list at www.pricelessware.org which is the groups list
of good freeware programs.

Please remember that this newsgroup is a global newsgroup open for all
ages and all kinds of people. Avoid foul language, abusive or
patronizing attitudes, etc..
We like to have a friendly and helpful atmosphere in the group.

If others do things you think are wrong, like top posting or announcing
non-freeware, ignore it, or help them realize that it was not so good to
do so.
A friendly word now and then is better than jumping on every occurrence
of what you think is wrong.

Newcomers may even learn from the good example of the others after a
while, without being told what to do at all.
Click to expand...

Agree totally

(If you don't like this FAQ, write your own, we cannot have too many
faqs, can we? :-)
Click to expand...

Actually what we need is more common sense and less "FAQ".

Regards
Gordon
 
I like it. I would just change:

"Freeware is software you can legally download from internet and used
for free".

to

"Freeware is software that can be legally used without monitary
payment to the author and/or copyright owner".
Click to expand...

In either case, which set of laws do you mean to reference when
legality is in question?
 
Roger Johansson said:
Q: What is freeware?

Freeware is software you can legally download from internet and use
for free.

Freeware is not the same thing as pirated, cracked software.

Freeware is available in many different forms, like open source,
public domain, adware, nagware, beta, time limited, demo, lite
versions, etc..

The usefulness of freeware can be more or less limited by ads, nags,
time limitations, etc.. Of course we prefer freeware which is as
valuable as possible, without much limitations.

Q: If I want to tell others about a freeware program I have found,
what should I think about?

Tell the readers where they can find it, how big it is, what the value
of the program is, what the purpose of the program is, what (if any)
limitations it has.

Before you tell others about a program you could check if it already
is included in the list at www.pricelessware.org which is the groups
list of good freeware programs.

Please remember that this newsgroup is a global newsgroup open for all
ages and all kinds of people. Avoid foul language, abusive or
patronizing attitudes, etc..
We like to have a friendly and helpful atmosphere in the group.

If others do things you think are wrong, like top posting or
announcing non-freeware, ignore it, or help them realize that it was
not so good to do so.
A friendly word now and then is better than jumping on every
occurrence of what you think is wrong.

Newcomers may even learn from the good example of the others after a
while, without being told what to do at all.

(If you don't like this FAQ, write your own, we cannot have too many
faqs, can we? :-)
Click to expand...


I think "MAYBE" I'll this THIS faq as the basis for adding members to the
acf webring (with Vic Dura's slight change). What'd you think guys? ;o)
 
Vic Dura said:
I like it. I would just change:

"Freeware is software you can legally download from internet and used
for free".
to
"Freeware is software that can be legally used without monitary
payment to the author and/or copyright owner".

There are sources other than the Internet from which freeware can be
obtained; although the Internet is the primary source IMO.
Click to expand...

Even if other possibilities may be possible they are of very minor
significance compared to downloading from internet.

I wasn't writing a document which must be absolutely perfect in every
detail, or cover all theoretically possible cases, so I chose to keep
it simple instead.
Nice job Roger.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

This faq can be freely used, copied, edited, revised, changed and
spread in any way anybody would like.
 
I think "MAYBE" I'll this THIS faq as the basis for adding members
to the acf webring (with Vic Dura's slight change). What'd you
think guys? ;o)
Click to expand...

I think you omitted a verb. How is it you mean to use that ridiculous
definition, in conjunction with your webring?
 
Roger said:
Q: What is freeware?

Freeware is software you can legally download from internet and use
for free.

Freeware is not the same thing as pirated, cracked software.

Freeware is available in many different forms, like open source,
public domain, adware, nagware, beta, time limited, demo, lite
versions, etc..(Clipped the rest.)
Click to expand...

Roger,
To say that adware, nagware, time-limited, demo, lite etc. is
freeware is idiocy.

And so it starts......
 
Vic said:
I like it. I would just change:

"Freeware is software you can legally download from internet and used
for free".

to

"Freeware is software that can be legally used without monitary
payment to the author and/or copyright owner".


There are sources other than the Internet from which freeware can be
obtained; although the Internet is the primary source IMO.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with your qualification Vic. The term "freeware" has
been around long before most punters had even heard of the internet, let
alone had the means to access it. This "readily downloadable" inclusion,
as part of the definition, is a flight of someone's imagination.

That said, it's clearly important (on an internet-accessed ng) to
QUALIFY a recommendation in terms of its availability. This comes back
to what I suggested earlier (which you agreed with I believe :)) that
it's more important to include such details in a post than to ajudge
whether something fits this or that freeware definition in the first
place. The latter approach has proven to be unsatisfactory; even though
I'm one who is pretty much in favour of the latter. :)
 
John Corliss wrote on Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:30:38 -0800:
Roger Johansson wrote:
Click to expand...

??>> Q: What is freeware?
??>>
??>> Freeware is software you can legally download from internet and use
??>> for free.
??>>
??>> Freeware is not the same thing as pirated, cracked software.
??>>
??>> Freeware is available in many different forms, like open source,
??>> public domain, adware, nagware, beta, time limited, demo, lite
??>> versions, etc..(Clipped the rest.)
Roger,
To say that adware, nagware, time-limited, demo, lite etc. is
freeware is idiocy.
Click to expand...

Not so JC - it depends on his definition of freeware. I don't necessarily
agree with his definition but he has as much right to make it as any of us.
And so it starts......
Click to expand...

Healthy discussion about a FAQ is OK, however, personal attacks should be
left at the door. You could have just as easily written "Roger, I strongly
disagree that adware, nagware, time-limited, demo, lite etc. are freeware
because...". Much more productive and less likely to start another flame
war wouldn't you agree JC?
 
»Q« said:
I think you omitted a verb. How is it you mean to use that ridiculous
definition, in conjunction with your webring?

--
»Q«
"KEEP BIG BROTHER'S HANDS OFF THE INTERNET"
By Senator John Ashcroft
<http://usinfo.state.gov/journals/itgic/1097/ijge/gj-7.htm>
Click to expand...


as i stated in another post, i can't even use the faq if i wanted to. the
webring is for sites only and the faq references software, not websites. if
we were to judge a site by its content (i.e. containing freeware, shareware,
crippleware, demoware, trialware, etc.) then how many sites must be removed
from pricelessware.org or son of spy's website ?
 
No, it started long ago. And this is what many of us warned against,
even back then. The kiddies said this would never happen, of course.
Click to expand...

They still are, in the face of it.

Regards,
 
Freeware is software you can legally download from internet and use
for free.
Freeware is available in many different forms, like open source,
public domain, adware, nagware, beta, time limited, demo, lite
versions, etc..
Click to expand...


No I dont like this crappy FAQ.

all adware, spyware, malware, shareware, are acceptable?
I dont want to see this wares here. this will flood
this group with garbage.

I think most wont agree with your FAQ.
 
rtdos said:
as i stated in another post, i can't even use the faq if i wanted to.
the webring is for sites only and the faq references software, not
websites. if we were to judge a site by its content (i.e. containing
freeware, shareware, crippleware, demoware, trialware, etc.) then how
many sites must be removed from pricelessware.org or son of spy's
website ?
Click to expand...

Sorry, but this is where your case hits the wall and dribbles to the
ground. Answering your second argument first, SOS and PW sites are
primarily repositories for (real) freeware, be it direct or via links
specifically aimed at the programs discussed. The fact that some of the
linked *sites* might also contain other ware-types is just coincidental
and, if anything, undesirable in the context in which they are
referenced. This is quite different to what you're proposing where, by
your own criteria, with even just one freeware offering (or maybe just
another link) then the site qualifies for your webring... and you will
knowingly accept it on this basis.

You have admitted that you accept pretty much "any"where as freeware.
That's your choice - it's your ring. But you're now into the realms of
simply "downloadable stuff" and well removed from just about any ACF
freeware definition.
 
To say that adware, nagware, time-limited, demo, lite etc. is
freeware is idiocy.
Click to expand...

Liteware is free, and if useful, legitimate for discussion. If it's
crippleware, ie, no more useful than a demo, then it's not legit.

I happen to think that nagware, and free time limited (if it's for a
good reason such as virus checkers, betas, etc.) are also types of
freeware, but should be clearly labelled for consumers so they know
there are some strings attached. Also, since we cannot really predict
the future, I don't believe that freeware that turns eventually into
shareware can be discounted, only marked, perhaps, as "testware" if
its status is known.

Demoware isn't freeware because its sole purpose is to let people try
something out for the purpose of buying the full version if they like
it, not to provide a useful app for general use. It's similar to
"crippleware" because its operation is not very useful or
entertaining, but different from liteware which does provides useful
basic functions for casual users, but limits 'higher' functions to the
paid version.

Adware, because of its association with spyware, cannot be counted as
legitimately freeware because it may collect intrusive data about
users.

All this is my opinion.
 
MK said:
John Corliss:

??>> Q: What is freeware?
??>>
??>> Freeware is software you can legally download from internet and use
??>> for free.
??>>
??>> Freeware is not the same thing as pirated, cracked software.
??>>
??>> Freeware is available in many different forms, like open source,
??>> public domain, adware, nagware, beta, time limited, demo, lite
??>> versions, etc..(Clipped the rest.)


Not so JC - it depends on his definition of freeware. I don't necessarily
agree with his definition but he has as much right to make it as any of us.
Click to expand...

Of course, I never said that he didn't.
Healthy discussion about a FAQ is OK, however, personal attacks should be
left at the door. You could have just as easily written "Roger, I strongly
disagree that adware, nagware, time-limited, demo, lite etc. are freeware
because...". Much more productive and less likely to start another flame
war wouldn't you agree JC?
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but I'm not maintaining an F.A.Q. anymore and now you get to
see me no holds barred. Besides, this stuff has been "discussed" ad
nauseum in this group. For it to CONTINUE to be discussed is only a
reflection that this group has a very vocal minority. For MK to
attempt to start a thread that puts the group so far back in time is
either:

1. a troll
2. a "hidden agenda" post.
3. pure idiocy.

Again, (damn, how many times now?) just because a type of software
isn't freeware, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S INAPPROPRIATE TO DISCUSS
IT HERE. The vote that Susan Bugher is doing right now on *exactly
this subject* will be the clincher. Assuming, of course, that the sock
puppets don't skew the results.
 
shareware and adware belong in their appropriate groups
alt.comp.shareware and alt.comp.adware I see no mention of these
groups in your FAQ, its called good usernet house keeping.

if an appropriate group exists post in that group.
if someone posts shareware here, its only appropriate to tell
them to post it in alt.comp.shareware this also applies to adware.

put this in your FAQs thanks

Regards
stan
 
John said:
Perhaps, but I'm not maintaining an F.A.Q. anymore and now you get to
see me no holds barred. Besides, this stuff has been "discussed" ad
nauseum in this group. For it to CONTINUE to be discussed is only a
reflection that this group has a very vocal minority. For MK to
attempt to start a thread that puts the group so far back in time is
either:
Click to expand...
1. a troll
2. a "hidden agenda" post.
3. pure idiocy.
Click to expand...

I think you omitted these:

4. 1 and 3, above
5. 2 and 3, above
 
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