That darned "USER"

  • Thread starter Thread starter ragmaniac
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ragmaniac

I am an oldfashioned computer user, who usually decides and usually
knows where EVERYTHING is on my computer. MS Explorer in Windows is my
main helper in keeping things as I wish.

However, of late, more and more information is placed by applications
(and some other precesses) into various directories deeply burried in
a very looooong hierarchy starting with the directory "USER." To make
things worse, there may be more than one of these USERS. I would like
to undo this practice and get back to putting things where I want them
to reside. There is no one else whom I would have to satisfy; I fly my
machine solo.

Is there someone out there who shares my frustration and has found a
way to defeat those brilliant software engineers who are bent and
bound to make our lives miserable?

I want to get back to where all computer events were decided by a
human USER's considered judgment — by me.

PS: I do not object to suggestions made by applications at the time of
installation, but I want to be the final judge every time.
 
ragmaniac said:
I am an oldfashioned computer user, who usually decides and usually
knows where EVERYTHING is on my computer. MS Explorer in Windows is my
main helper in keeping things as I wish.

However, of late, more and more information is placed by applications
(and some other precesses) into various directories deeply burried in
a very looooong hierarchy starting with the directory "USER." To make
things worse, there may be more than one of these USERS. I would like
to undo this practice and get back to putting things where I want them
to reside. There is no one else whom I would have to satisfy; I fly my
machine solo.

Is there someone out there who shares my frustration and has found a
way to defeat those brilliant software engineers who are bent and
bound to make our lives miserable?

I want to get back to where all computer events were decided by a
human USER's considered judgment — by me.

PS: I do not object to suggestions made by applications at the time of
installation, but I want to be the final judge every time.
Click to expand...

Get your computer back:

http://www.ubuntu.com/ It's free and you have total control.
 
I am an oldfashioned computer user, who usually decides and usually
knows where EVERYTHING is on my computer. MS Explorer in Windows is my
main helper in keeping things as I wish.

However, of late, more and more information is placed by applications
(and some other precesses) into various directories deeply burried in a
very looooong hierarchy starting with the directory "USER." To make
things worse, there may be more than one of these USERS. I would like to
undo this practice and get back to putting things where I want them to
reside. There is no one else whom I would have to satisfy; I fly my
machine solo.

Is there someone out there who shares my frustration and has found a way
to defeat those brilliant software engineers who are bent and bound to
make our lives miserable?
Click to expand...

I've found one excellent way - convert to Linux. You can put everything
exactly where you want it.
 
ragmaniac said:
I am an oldfashioned computer user, who usually decides and usually
knows where EVERYTHING is on my computer. MS Explorer in Windows is my
main helper in keeping things as I wish.
Click to expand...

You are fighting a losing battle. The best solution is to get used to
the "new way" and live with it peacefully.

Windows is designed to handle a wide range of scenarios, from single
users at home, to large corporate deployments in a multi-domain
enterprise. The "new" system, with application data stored under the
\User\<username>\Appdata directory, is required for scenarios where you
have multiple users sharing a machine, or "roaming users" where the same
user may log on to many different PCs in different locations, and
expects to see their applications and data no matter where they log in.
These are quite important requirements for corporate, enterprise and OEM
sales.

The number of single users who want to keep total control over their
directory structure is quite small and, I have to say, economically
insignificant by comparison.

Microsoft's application guidelines for Windows Vista and Windows 7
require software companies to use the AppData directory, in order to
qualify for Windows certification. There are a number of quite
significant engineering decisions which support this requirement; it
wasn't just an opportunity to annoy customers just for the hell of it.

See for example Microsoft's "Windows 7 Client Software Logo Technical
Requirements & Program Eligibility":

http://download.microsoft.com/downl...BA5EAC4A32/Windows 7 Client Software Logo.pdf

or "Namespace Usage Guidelines for the Windows Vista File System":

http://download.microsoft.com/downl...-9b50-3392e9886084/VistaFileSysNamespaces.pdf

In this regard, Windows is simply following similar conventions to other
operating systems. Under most forms of Unix for example, executables
must go in /bin, apps in /usr/bin or /opt, app data under /var, and so on.

Hope it helps,

Andrew
 
Frank said:
You actually think telling the users to switch to another, totally
unfamiliar OS is the very best answer to his question?
You're out of mind if you do.
Click to expand...

If you want total control of your computer, of course it's the right
answer. What's yours, hot shot?
 
Frank said:
The OP seems to be complaining about the "default" location for various
things. If he doesn't know that he can chose another location of his
choice at time of installation or when saving something, then what
difference will switching to another, totally unfamiliar os make? linux
distros all have their own "default" location for things so he'd still
have to make a choice...something he seems not able or willing, to
currently do.
Click to expand...

And your solution to the OP's problem is?
 
You are fighting a losing battle. The best solution is to get used to
the "new way" and live with it peacefully.

Windows is designed to handle a wide range of scenarios, from single
users at home, to large corporate deployments in a multi-domain
enterprise. The "new" system, with application data stored under the
\User\<username>\Appdata directory, is required for scenarios where you
have multiple users sharing a machine, or "roaming users" where the same
user may log on to many different PCs in different locations, and
expects to see their applications and data no matter where they log in.
These are quite important requirements for corporate, enterprise and OEM
sales.

The number of single users who want to keep total control over their
directory structure is quite small and, I have to say, economically
insignificant by comparison.

Microsoft's application guidelines for Windows Vista and Windows 7
require software companies to use the AppData directory, in order to
qualify for Windows certification. There are a number of quite
significant engineering decisions which support this requirement; it
wasn't just an opportunity to annoy customers just for the hell of it.

See for example Microsoft's "Windows 7 Client Software Logo Technical
Requirements & Program Eligibility":

http://download.microsoft.com/download/1/E/9/1E9580D9-2B2B-499C-918A-...

or "Namespace Usage Guidelines for the Windows Vista File System":

http://download.microsoft.com/download/e/6/a/e6aa654f-cccb-421e-9b50-...

In this regard, Windows is simply following similar conventions to other
operating systems. Under most forms of Unix for example, executables
must go in /bin, apps in /usr/bin or /opt, app data under /var, and so on..

Hope it helps,

Andrew
Click to expand...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++

Thank you very much, Andrew, for a reasonable explanation of the
'state of things' in the Windows OS world. As a result, I will no
longer complain, suck it up, so to speak, and do what I must to get
used to our 'modern' computer software hierarchy.

But...is it possible to alter the Windows OS software to a single-user
configuration? I suspect not, leaving old fossils like me to merely
remember the albeit limited capabilities of Digital Reasearche's CP/M.
(newbees please see Wikipedia) If it cannot be done, just ignore the
question. I will understand. Thank you again for a very useful
explanation.

Progress may be painful at times, but it kicks us down the road — as
it should. Hal.
 
ragmaniac said:
But...is it possible to alter the Windows OS software to a single-user
configuration? I suspect not, leaving old fossils like me to merely
remember the albeit limited capabilities of Digital Reasearche's CP/M.
(newbees please see Wikipedia) If it cannot be done, just ignore the
Click to expand...

Hi Hal,

BTW, I should have mentioned that I don't personally entirely love every
aspect of the Vista/Win7 directory structure, myself! The "C:\Program
Files" directory name is horrible. That damn space char keeps getting in
the way. But, that's the way it is ...

You can't really install it in "single-user" mode to bypass all the
multi-user features. Among other issues, you can't tell in advance
whether an application will try to locate a directory using a API (such
as SHGetKnownFolderPath()); or by looking for a COM object via CSIDL, or
use a literal directory path, such as "C:\Users\<user>\Data", etc. Or
possibly all three. Yes, it's a bit of a mess; but that's the result of
~25 years fairly organic evolution, with pragmatic compromises, rather
than pristine design rigidity, along the way.

A couple of workarounds might make it more user-friendly for your own
requirements:

- if you want to regularly access data stored in a deeply nested path,
such as "C:\Users\Hal\AppData\Local\SomeVendor\Mydata", you can create a
Shortcut in Explorer which points to that folder. Leave the Shortcut in
some easily accessed location, like your desktop.

- somewhat similar, NTFS in Vista and Win7 support symbolic Links (like
in Unix), which you can create with the mklink command at a command
prompt. So:

C:\>mklink /D C:\MyData C:\Users\Hal\AppData\Local\SomeVendor\Mydata

will create a directory off the root of C:\, which is a link to the
deeply nested directory. You can then reach the same directory and files
using either path.

Things were certainly easier back in CP/M days! But we'd probably find
CP/M pretty frustrating, after using Windows XP, Vista or 7 for a while
- where's my web browser? In fact - where's my network?? :-)) Mind you
PIP was a good utility on CP/M.

Hope it helps,

Andrew
 
However, of late, more and more information is placed by applications
(and some other precesses) into various directories deeply burried in
a very looooong hierarchy starting with the directory "USER." To make
things worse, there may be more than one of these USERS. I would like
to undo this practice and get back to putting things where I want them
to reside.
Click to expand...

Visit
"HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\User
Shell Folders" registry key and remap corresponding folders accordingly.
 
Frank said:
You've got to be kidding me right? What does the "registry" have to do
with where one choses to place files?
Well...?
Click to expand...

Guess what the registry consists of, files, and most programs are
intertwined with the registry. Programs are made up of files. Get it now
or do I need to go slower?
 
Frank said:
Well ray-baby, if you actually had a Windows OS you'd know that you can
set/chose Windows to do exactly the same thing.
In fact, linux copied Windows in that respect!
Oops!
Click to expand...

Frank doesn't know the answer so he does what he always does: insult the
person to whom he's replying. Linux has copied *nothing* from Windows.
It's the other way round but True Believer like Frank will never let
themselves become educated. If Linux were to copy one code from MS, you
can best believe MS lawyers would be all over it.
 
Frank said:
Please tell us all why you think you need to be able to separate
programs from the registry?
This should be good!...LOL!
Click to expand...

I need to go slower, as expected, but **** it, he wouldn't get it anyway.
 
Frank said:
Reading comprehension problems cody? Who said anything about 'copying
code" huh?
FACT: You can chose where you want apps to be installed in Windows.
Got it loser?
Click to expand...

They'll be intertwined with the registry no matter what partition you
install them.
 
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