Swapping laptop HDD's?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Kenny
  • Start date Start date
K

Kenny

I have been given a Medion laptop and told if I can fix it I can keep it.
Switched on from cold it may work OK for a while then it will totally
freeze.
Other times it will simply refuse to start, power LED is lit but no HDD
activity and no display on screen.
Have checked CMOS battery and reseated HDD as well as doing complete restore
from Medion CD.
I have a fairly new Advent laptop of my own, can I remove HDD from this and
put in the one from the Medion to eliminate or confirm it as faulty?
I know hardware differences may cause it not to boot properly but assuming I
use the restore disc for the Advent is the idea feasible?
 
Not feasable, and may result in a trashed hd

Determin the make of hd on the medion, visit that manufacturers site,
download & create the bootable floppy or cd hd test utility
 
Thanks for the reply, it's a Western Digital HDD and I'm downloading Data
Lifeguard Tools, bootable CD version, at the minute.

--
Kenny Cargill
DL said:
Not feasable, and may result in a trashed hd

Determin the make of hd on the medion, visit that manufacturers site,
download & create the bootable floppy or cd hd test utility
Click to expand...
 
Kenny said:
I have been given a Medion laptop and told if I can fix it I can keep it.
Switched on from cold it may work OK for a while then it will totally
freeze.
Other times it will simply refuse to start, power LED is lit but no HDD
activity and no display on screen.
Have checked CMOS battery and reseated HDD as well as doing complete
restore from Medion CD.
I have a fairly new Advent laptop of my own, can I remove HDD from this
and put in the one from the Medion to eliminate or confirm it as faulty?
I know hardware differences may cause it not to boot properly but assuming
I use the restore disc for the Advent is the idea feasible?
Click to expand...


A good way to se if a computer is running ok, other than the HDD, is to run
a live Linux distro. Try Knoppix or Ubuntu. If the computer runs ok without
freezing, get a hold of another HDD and install Windows onto it.
 
Hi,

Kenny said:
I have been given a Medion laptop and told if I can fix it I can keep it.
Switched on from cold it may work OK for a while then it will totally
freeze.
Other times it will simply refuse to start, power LED is lit but no HDD
activity and no display on screen.
Have checked CMOS battery and reseated HDD as well as doing complete
restore from Medion CD.
Click to expand...

This 'non-starting' fault is quite likely to be something to do with a
lack of Thermpath between processor and heatsink, or a problem with the
laptop's internal PSU resulting from some sort of thermal or power problem
(or maybe even damage to the internal modem and other components, if the
unit was connected to a phone-line - online or offline - during an
electrical storm). Checking the processor heatsink arrangements should be
fairly simple, and is the cheapest first move - the processor is often
accessible once he keyboard panel has been removed, but you'd need to check
(via Google) for a service manual, or find a reliable and trustworthy local
techie to check it for you before trying to break in.

I have a fairly new Advent laptop of my own, can I remove HDD from this
and put in the one from the Medion to eliminate or confirm it as faulty?
I know hardware differences may cause it not to boot properly but assuming
I use the restore disc for the Advent is the idea feasible?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't do that at all - you'd be far better to get hold of a USB
external cradle to plug that HDD into, and test it that way using your
Advent machine. If the Medion features a floppy-drive, and can be configured
in the BIOS to boot from a floppy or (bootable) CD as the first device, you
could try pulling the HDD out altogether and then try to boot to a diskette
(that you've formatted to be bootable on a known-good machine) - or to a
Windows XP or Medion Recovery CD. If the laptop still displays the same
balkiness without the HDD installed, it'd be reasonable to assume that
whatever the fault, it's more likely to be caused by something other than
the HDD. If you ask the original owner a few questions regarding whether the
fan(s) ran very often on the Medion, or whether it froze up when hot, and
whether the fault was progressive, that might point to what's actually the
matter with it. The modern 'double-sided tape' heatsink pads don't work as
well in the longer term as good, old-fashioned liquid silicone Thermpath.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Philip
 
Thanks Philip for the reply, it made me think of something other than a
faulty HDD.
I removed the bottom cover and first thing I noticed was that the CPU fan
wasn't turning. Is it likely the CPU is damaged or will the onboard thermal
protection have saved it?
I have built and upgraded quite a few desktop PC's but not laptops and I am
very unfamiliar with the heatsink & fan arrangement and how to remove and
replace them.
The fan doesn't sit on top of the CPU, it's off to one side and there's a
copper pipe across the top from fan to CPU. There are four screws on top of
the CPU part of the heatsink but I'm not sure what way the left side of the
fan block is connected because it's partly under the cabinet.
Have searched for a service manual for this or something with a similar
arrangement but no luck.
The model is Medion MIM2230.
Any advice appreciated.

--
Kenny Cargill




Philip Andrews said:
Hi,

Kenny said:
I have been given a Medion laptop and told if I can fix it I can keep it.
Switched on from cold it may work OK for a while then it will totally
freeze.
Other times it will simply refuse to start, power LED is lit but no HDD
activity and no display on screen.
Have checked CMOS battery and reseated HDD as well as doing complete
restore from Medion CD.
Click to expand...

This 'non-starting' fault is quite likely to be something to do with a
lack of Thermpath between processor and heatsink, or a problem with the
laptop's internal PSU resulting from some sort of thermal or power problem
(or maybe even damage to the internal modem and other components, if the
unit was connected to a phone-line - online or offline - during an
electrical storm). Checking the processor heatsink arrangements should be
fairly simple, and is the cheapest first move - the processor is often
accessible once he keyboard panel has been removed, but you'd need to
check (via Google) for a service manual, or find a reliable and
trustworthy local techie to check it for you before trying to break in.

I have a fairly new Advent laptop of my own, can I remove HDD from this
and put in the one from the Medion to eliminate or confirm it as faulty?
I know hardware differences may cause it not to boot properly but
assuming I use the restore disc for the Advent is the idea feasible?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't do that at all - you'd be far better to get hold of a USB
external cradle to plug that HDD into, and test it that way using your
Advent machine. If the Medion features a floppy-drive, and can be
configured in the BIOS to boot from a floppy or (bootable) CD as the first
device, you could try pulling the HDD out altogether and then try to boot
to a diskette (that you've formatted to be bootable on a known-good
machine) - or to a Windows XP or Medion Recovery CD. If the laptop still
displays the same balkiness without the HDD installed, it'd be reasonable
to assume that whatever the fault, it's more likely to be caused by
something other than the HDD. If you ask the original owner a few
questions regarding whether the fan(s) ran very often on the Medion, or
whether it froze up when hot, and whether the fault was progressive, that
might point to what's actually the matter with it. The modern
'double-sided tape' heatsink pads don't work as well in the longer term as
good, old-fashioned liquid silicone Thermpath.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Philip
Click to expand...
 
You need to keep in mind that in a laptop, the fan won't necessarily turn on
when you power up the laptop, assuming the fan is bad just because it's not
turning is a bad thing. You need to get the laptop up to temperature and
work it and see if the fan comes on at any point, also check for dust
blocking the heatsink fins.

--

----
Crosspost, do not multipost http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm
How to ask a question http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
_________________________________________________________________________________


Kenny said:
Thanks Philip for the reply, it made me think of something other than a
faulty HDD.
I removed the bottom cover and first thing I noticed was that the CPU fan
wasn't turning. Is it likely the CPU is damaged or will the onboard
thermal protection have saved it?
I have built and upgraded quite a few desktop PC's but not laptops and I
am very unfamiliar with the heatsink & fan arrangement and how to remove
and replace them.
The fan doesn't sit on top of the CPU, it's off to one side and there's a
copper pipe across the top from fan to CPU. There are four screws on top
of the CPU part of the heatsink but I'm not sure what way the left side of
the fan block is connected because it's partly under the cabinet.
Have searched for a service manual for this or something with a similar
arrangement but no luck.
The model is Medion MIM2230.
Any advice appreciated.
Click to expand...
 
Also, if you do decide to remove the heatsink, keep in mind that the CPU may
get yanked out of it's socket along with it, so pull straight up to avoid
bending the CPU pins, and you'll need to separate the 2 and apply new
thermal compound when reassembling.

--

----
Crosspost, do not multipost http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm
How to ask a question http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
_________________________________________________________________________________


Kenny said:
Thanks Philip for the reply, it made me think of something other than a
faulty HDD.
I removed the bottom cover and first thing I noticed was that the CPU fan
wasn't turning. Is it likely the CPU is damaged or will the onboard
thermal protection have saved it?
I have built and upgraded quite a few desktop PC's but not laptops and I
am very unfamiliar with the heatsink & fan arrangement and how to remove
and replace them.
The fan doesn't sit on top of the CPU, it's off to one side and there's a
copper pipe across the top from fan to CPU. There are four screws on top
of the CPU part of the heatsink but I'm not sure what way the left side of
the fan block is connected because it's partly under the cabinet.
Have searched for a service manual for this or something with a similar
arrangement but no luck.
The model is Medion MIM2230.
Any advice appreciated.
Click to expand...
 
Kenny said:
Thanks Philip for the reply, it made me think of something other than a
faulty HDD.
I removed the bottom cover and first thing I noticed was that the CPU fan
wasn't turning. Is it likely the CPU is damaged or will the onboard thermal
protection have saved it?
I have built and upgraded quite a few desktop PC's but not laptops and I am
very unfamiliar with the heatsink & fan arrangement and how to remove and
replace them.
The fan doesn't sit on top of the CPU, it's off to one side and there's a
copper pipe across the top from fan to CPU. There are four screws on top of
the CPU part of the heatsink but I'm not sure what way the left side of the
fan block is connected because it's partly under the cabinet.
Have searched for a service manual for this or something with a similar
arrangement but no luck.
The model is Medion MIM2230.
Any advice appreciated.
Click to expand...

Heat pipes are an efficient means of moving heat from one place
to another. They are used extensively in laptops, to move heat to
a radiator located next to an exhaust vent. The fact that the fan
is not over top of the CPU should not come as a shock. There are
limited good locations for a fan.

Modern processors have THERMTRIP protection, and the feature is
hardware based. If the processor gets too hot, THERMTRIP can be used
to disable some or all power to the motherboard.

The Medion sites look pretty bulletproof in terms of finding
help, so screwdriver and hammer will be your friends :-) For
some laptops, you remove a strip above the keyboard, to be able
to remove the keyboard and gain access to other screws. Viewing
some disassembly web pages for other company's products, may
give an idea how to attack the Medion. Laptops come from
a small number of original sources, so there should be some
commonality in the design approaches used.

Paul
 
Hi Kenny,

Thanks Philip for the reply, it made me think of something other than a
faulty HDD.
I removed the bottom cover and first thing I noticed was that the CPU fan
wasn't turning.
Click to expand...

That would be a prime reason for this unit to have failed! Nice one.
Is it likely the CPU is damaged or will the onboard thermal protection
have saved it?
Click to expand...

The processor's in-built thermal shutdown mechanism SHOULD have
protected it - it's not something to rely on as a first line of defence,
more as a backstop, but I'd doubt very much that the CPU has been fried. You
need to pursue why the fan isn't turning - use a DVM and look for a voltage,
or a DOM and look for low to medium resistance across the fan's connection
pins (disconnect the fan plug first in both instances). If the fan is
open-circuit (very high resistance), it's a no-brainer - change the fan and
the problem will go away.

I have built and upgraded quite a few desktop PC's but not laptops and I
am very unfamiliar with the heatsink & fan arrangement and how to remove
and replace them.
Click to expand...

The laptops that I've stripped have featured either four screws or some
kind of spring clamping device to force intimate contact between the
heatsink's flat underside and the top surface of the processor. Nothing else
is required - the 'four screws' method is easy to comprehend, and all you'd
need to do is to break adhesion between heatsink and processor CAREFULLY to
get at the CPU. BUT - it's not indicated in this case, so my advice would be
'leave it alone'. :o)
The fan doesn't sit on top of the CPU, it's off to one side and there's a
copper pipe across the top from fan to CPU.
Click to expand...

Sounds familiar - that's a heat pipe, and the 'cold' end of it will be
directly in the airflow created by the fan. Heat is effectively 'sucked' (by
a forced downward heat gradient and consequent conduction) along the heat
pipe when the fan's doing its stuff. Since it isn't ...

There are four screws on top of the CPU part of the heatsink but I'm not
sure what way the left side of the fan block is connected because it's
partly under the cabinet.
Click to expand...

The chances are that it's 'connected' only by adhesion to the processor.
I'd remove the screws and apply gentle torque if I thought that the
processor needed to come out for thermpathing - but in this case, it
doesn't - or at least, not until you've found out why the fan isn't working
(and even then not, if I've guessed the true fault correctly).

Have searched for a service manual for this or something with a similar
arrangement but no luck.
The model is Medion MIM2230.
Any advice appreciated.
Click to expand...

The International Medion website is at http://www.medion.com/english/.
I've had good dealings with them in the past, and they'll be your best
advisor if repair parts are required. The stalled fan could be about dust
ingress, actual fan failure, or something more sinister wrong on the
motherboard. The DVM / DOM check detailed above will tell you immediately
whether you're going to win a free laptop or not.

Good luck -

Regards,

Philip
 
Thanks Philip for the reply, it made me think of something other than a
That would be a prime reason for this unit to have failed! Nice one.


The processor's in-built thermal shutdown mechanism SHOULD have
protected it - it's not something to rely on as a first line of defence,
more as a backstop, but I'd doubt very much that the CPU has been fried.
You need to pursue why the fan isn't turning - use a DVM and look for a
voltage, or a DOM and look for low to medium resistance across the fan's
connection pins (disconnect the fan plug first in both instances). If the
fan is open-circuit (very high resistance), it's a no-brainer - change the
fan and the problem will go away.
Click to expand...

Waitaminute...these aren't simple DC fans anymore. One side is ground, the
other power, and the third is speed control via pulses or DC from the mobo.
The wires are not directly connected to motor windings anymore, thankfully,
so simple ohmmeter checks won't work...unless the leads are all shorted and
then you obviously have a bad fan. (The upside is that if the fan gets
jammed it doesn't burn up the windings and the circuits supplying power. On
all of today's computers you can hold the fan immobile and nothing will go
wrong, other than separate things will get hot.)

If the fan turns easily once the gunk is cleaned out that's a sign it might
be OK. If it turns hard...that's your problem. But you need to see it run to
be sure it works.

-John O
 
Tried running it using a Knoppix CD and an Ultimate Boot Disk CD with the
HDD removed.
With both sometimes it wouldn't start at all and other times would boot to
the initial interface then PC would totally freeze after a fairly short
period of time, not long enough to run any memory diagnostics or anything
else.
It's the same on both battery and mains power.
There is no dust anywhere and the CPU fan turns easily by hand.
 
Then I don't think the fan is your problem if it won't even power on when
the unit is cool, you likely have a problem with the system board.
 
Kenny said:
Tried running it using a Knoppix CD and an Ultimate Boot Disk CD with the
HDD removed.
With both sometimes it wouldn't start at all and other times would boot to
the initial interface then PC would totally freeze after a fairly short
period of time, not long enough to run any memory diagnostics or anything
else.
It's the same on both battery and mains power.
There is no dust anywhere and the CPU fan turns easily by hand.
Click to expand...


Kenny

The HDD and fan are not the problems then. Have you tried running memory
tests? If you have two memory sticks installed, remove one of them at a time
and see if the problems persist..
 
It won't stay on long enough to run memory tests.
Reason I initially suspected HDD was a "PXE-61 Media Failure Test" at boot.
This relates to not finding a bootable HDD or CD and trying to boot from a
network although the HDD was installed properly.
 
The hard drive will not cause the no power issue unless it's shorted, pull
it out and confirm that you still have the power on issues.
 
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