Swap Win98 drive before XP install?

[Tony]

I have a question that I'm not sure I've seen addressed. Like others I am
planning an XP upgrade. I have XP Pro and a new drive waiting for
installation. I currently have Win98SE running on another drive (C. Is it
possible to MOVE the Win98 drive to the slave position so that I can make
the new XP drive the C: drive? I'm assuming this won't work, as there is too
much hard-coded c:\blahblah in the Win98 Registry, but I was
hoping MSoft would provide a tool that would work along with multiboot to
allow that. Yes, I know I can install XP on what would be a new D: drive,
but in time I would be removing the Win98 drive, which is why I'd like to
initially install XP to a C: drive but still have Win98 in the interim.

 

[Rod Speed]

I have a question that I'm not sure I've seen addressed. Like
others I am planning an XP upgrade. I have XP Pro and a new
drive waiting for installation. I currently have Win98SE running on
another drive (C. Is it possible to MOVE the Win98 drive to the
slave position so that I can make the new XP drive the C: drive?
Yes.

I'm assuming this won't work, as there is too much
hard-coded c:\blahblah in the Win98 Registry,

Thats not necessarily a problem if you boot win98SE off
the slave drive by using the selection of the drive to boot
off in the motherboard bios. That will result in SE still
seeing that drive as the C drive at boot time because of
the way Win9x allocates letters to partitions and drives.

Thats not quite as clean as with a dual boot setup
by the XP install at install time, but you may not
care if you arent likely to be booting SE much.

And you can use a real boot manager
if you want that convenience.

but I was hoping MSoft would provide a tool that
would work along with multiboot to allow that.

They dont, basically because SE isnt
normally installed on a slave drive.

Yes, I know I can install XP on what would be a new D: drive,
but in time I would be removing the Win98 drive, which is why I'd like
to initially install XP to a C: drive but still have Win98 in the interim.

See above. That will get the result you want fine.

 

[Tony]

See my inserted comments / questions...

Thats not necessarily a problem if you boot win98SE off
the slave drive by using the selection of the drive to boot
off in the motherboard bios. That will result in SE still
seeing that drive as the C drive at boot time because of
the way Win9x allocates letters to partitions and drives.

Thats not quite as clean as with a dual boot setup
by the XP install at install time, but you may not
care if you arent likely to be booting SE much.

Yeah, I should have thought of this. Certainly doable. Thanks.

And you can use a real boot manager
if you want that convenience.

Now this part has me confused. It implies that if I use a real boot manager
I can do what I want without having to turn drives on / off, or switching
first boot device, in BIOS? If this is the case, is there a recommended
manager that will get this job done, and can then be removed when I'm
through with 98?

 

[Rod Speed]

Yeah, I should have thought of this. Certainly doable. Thanks.

Now this part has me confused. It implies that if I use a real boot
manager I can do what I want without having to turn drives on / off,

You dont have to do that with either approach. Just
leave the drive with SE installed on it as the slave
and the drive with XP installed on it as the master.

or switching first boot device, in BIOS?

This is where a full boot manager is better, it can be
setup to allow selection of which drive to boot off from
a menu and you then dont have to go into the bios to
change the drive to boot off in the boot menu in the bios.

If this is the case, is there a recommended
manager that will get this job done,

Depends on what you have already. There's a quite
usable boot manage in Partition Magic, Boot Magic.

There are some free ones around.

http://www.osloader.com/ looks
interesting but I havent actually used it.

and can then be removed when I'm through with 98?

Yes.

But a full boot manager isnt really worth bothering
with if you are only likely to boot off the SE drive
a few tens of times. And thats most likely. There
isnt much that wont run fine on XP, although some
games are more stable under SE, so you may
prefer a full boot manager if you play them much.

 

[Tony]

You dont have to do that with either approach. Just
leave the drive with SE installed on it as the slave
and the drive with XP installed on it as the master.


This is where a full boot manager is better, it can be
setup to allow selection of which drive to boot off from
a menu and you then dont have to go into the bios to
change the drive to boot off in the boot menu in the bios.

....snip...

I guess the part that I can't resolve is that, if I make my Win98 drive
Slave, and let's say use a boot manager, if my Master is still there my
Slace drive will be D:. Will the boot manager fool Win98 into thinking it's
on a C: drive? If not, how will anything run?

OTOH, if I decide to go the BIOS route, will it then be better to install XP
without the Slave drive in place (or active)?

 

[Rod Speed]

I guess the part that I can't resolve is that, if I make
my Win98 drive Slave, and let's say use a boot manager,
if my Master is still there my Slace drive will be D:.

Nope, not when SE is booted from the slave drive, because
SE does the letter allocation all over again at boot time.

Will the boot manager fool Win98
into thinking it's on a C: drive?

Doesnt need to, because 98 allocates
the drive letters from scratch as it boots.

If not, how will anything run?

OTOH, if I decide to go the BIOS route, will it then be better
to install XP without the Slave drive in place (or active)?

Yes, because with the slave visible at boot time, it
will likely setup a multiboot for that drive, and that
may well have a significant problem in that situation.

Havent tried that tho, it might work ok. If it does work
it will be for the same reason, 98 redoing the drive
letter allocation as it boots, however its got to boot.

 

[Tony]

Nope, not when SE is booted from the slave drive, because
SE does the letter allocation all over again at boot time.


Doesnt need to, because 98 allocates
the drive letters from scratch as it boots.



Yes, because with the slave visible at boot time, it
will likely setup a multiboot for that drive, and that
may well have a significant problem in that situation.

Havent tried that tho, it might work ok. If it does work
it will be for the same reason, 98 redoing the drive
letter allocation as it boots, however its got to boot.

Thanks for all the help, Rod!

 

[ted msn]

Thanks for all the help, Rod!

Why bother !
Just let XP go onto the D: drive or next letter XP should setup a free boot
manager and let you select either OS as to boot into. All it needs is to set
the "advanced" option on the XP instal that lets YOU say where the OS is to
be loaded.
I dont have 98 on my system but do have W2k, W2k server and XP (several
copies of) all managed by the simple XP boot loader. THE main thing is to
load the older OS first (you have) and go to newer ones later.

regards
ted

 

[Rod Speed]

Why bother !

Basically because you end up with a cleaner
result when you bin SE eventually.

Just let XP go onto the D: drive or next letter XP should setup
a free boot manager and let you select either OS as to boot into.

Yes, but its not so good when SE is binned.

All it needs is to set the "advanced" option on the XP
instal that lets YOU say where the OS is to be loaded.

I dont have 98 on my system but do have W2k, W2k server and XP
(several copies of) all managed by the simple XP boot loader. THE main
thing is to load the older OS first (you have) and go to newer ones later.

But its messy to remove one of them later
once you decide you dont want it anymore.

 

[ted msn]

Basically because you end up with a cleaner
result when you bin SE eventually.


Yes, but its not so good when SE is binned.

later.

But its messy to remove one of them later
once you decide you dont want it anymore.

Just change boot.ini to remove the OS you dont want to boot to. I agree you
still need the old disc as drive C: but all the old OS & apps can be wiped
you just need to keep ntldr, ntdetcet.com and boot.ini on that drive

regards
ted

 

[Rod Speed]

Just change boot.ini to remove the OS you dont want to boot to.

You need to do more than that if you want the XP install to
be on the C drive as it would be if you did it the other way.

I agree you still need the old disc as drive C:

And thats a much less clean config than doing it the other way.

If you just boot the SE slave drive using the bios when
you want to run that, its a lot simpler to get to a clean
config once you have decided that you dont want SE
anymore. Basically just format that drive. You dont
need to know anything about the format of boot.ini etc.

but all the old OS & apps can be wiped you just need
to keep ntldr, ntdetcet.com and boot.ini on that drive

Nothing like as clean a config as the new
drive with XP on it as the master boot drive.

 

[ted msn]

later.


You need to do more than that if you want the XP install to
be on the C drive as it would be if you did it the other way.

XP does not have to be on C:

And thats a much less clean config than doing it the other way.

You still have two discs and boot to XP which happens to be on D: or E: or
H: or whatever

If you just boot the SE slave drive using the bios when
you want to run that, its a lot simpler to get to a clean
config once you have decided that you dont want SE
anymore. Basically just format that drive. You dont
need to know anything about the format of boot.ini etc.

Boot.ini is not hard to read (once the hidden system attrib is removed) or
you set your system to view hidden / syustem files

Nothing like as clean a config as the new
drive with XP on it as the master boot drive.

I think it all depends if you are going to keep the first (original) disc or
not. If you are not then you should do a clean install just on the new disk
if not then do as I or Rod says whatever YOU feel happy about its your
system. Both should work. But see belowMe, I would put XP on both drives one is a clean install OS and major apps,
the other a day today working setup. With some form of "image backup" say
Drive Image/Ghost etc you could play with "suspect software" on the test
setup and when happy move it to the live system. Restore or do a new backup
on the the test setup as you feel and repeat as required.

regards
ted

 

[Rod Speed]

XP does not have to be on C:

No one said it does. Just that its CLEANER installed there
when you later remove the SE install. You dont have to
ensure that the minimal boot manager is on the C drive.

You still have two discs

Yes, but only the contents of the C drive matter for booting.

and boot to XP which happens to
be on D: or E: or H: or whatever

And you have to ensure that whats needed to do that remains
on the original C drive that aint where XP is installed.

Much cleaner to have that stuff in the C drive that XP boots from.

Boot.ini is not hard to read (once the hidden system attrib is
removed) or you set your system to view hidden / syustem files

Sure, but you do need to understand
the format if you plan to manually edit it.

You dont need to edit boot.ini at all when you format
the SE drive once you have decided that you wont
want to boot SE anymore and you have been selecting
which OS to boot from in the bios boot menu.

I think it all depends if you are going
to keep the first (original) disc or not.

Yes, but its clearly cleaner to have the entire boot done by
whats in the C drive that has XP installed on it. Its then completely
independant of the other drive and OS. You can do what you like,
including physically remove the drive that has SE installed on it if
you want and the system will still boot fine.

If you are not then you should do a clean install just
on the new disk if not then do as I or Rod says

What I spelt out would be fine and allows him to boot
off the SE drive while in the process of setting up the XP
install and copying all the files and settings across. And
once there is no longer any need to boot SE, that drive
can just be formatted and reused or physically removed.

And if you do decide after using XP for a while that
it would be nice to be able to boot to SE for say
games for quite a while, its completely trivial to install
a real full horsepower boot manager at THAT time.

whatever YOU feel happy about its
your system. Both should work.

Yes, but not equally cleanly.

But see below

Me, I would put XP on both drives one is a clean install
OS and major apps, the other a day today working setup.
With some form of "image backup" say Drive Image/Ghost
etc you could play with "suspect software" on the test
setup and when happy move it to the live system.

Or just image the single XP install before trying something so you
can just restore the image if you decide you dont like the result.

Restore or do a new backup on the the test
setup as you feel and repeat as required.

Yes, but you dont need two full XP installs to be able to do that.

 

[ted msn]

No one said it does. Just that its CLEANER installed there
when you later remove the SE install. You dont have to
ensure that the minimal boot manager is on the C drive.



Yes, but only the contents of the C drive matter for booting.


And you have to ensure that whats needed to do that remains
on the original C drive that aint where XP is installed.

Much cleaner to have that stuff in the C drive that XP boots from.



Sure, but you do need to understand
the format if you plan to manually edit it.

You dont need to edit boot.ini at all when you format
the SE drive once you have decided that you wont
want to boot SE anymore and you have been selecting
which OS to boot from in the bios boot menu.



Yes, but its clearly cleaner to have the entire boot done by
whats in the C drive that has XP installed on it. Its then completely
independant of the other drive and OS. You can do what you like,
including physically remove the drive that has SE installed on it if
you want and the system will still boot fine.


What I spelt out would be fine and allows him to boot
off the SE drive while in the process of setting up the XP
install and copying all the files and settings across. And
once there is no longer any need to boot SE, that drive
can just be formatted and reused or physically removed.

And if you do decide after using XP for a while that
it would be nice to be able to boot to SE for say
games for quite a while, its completely trivial to install
a real full horsepower boot manager at THAT time.


Yes, but not equally cleanly.



Or just image the single XP install before trying something so you
can just restore the image if you decide you dont like the result.

If the testing of new apps takes a few days/weeks will not the old image you
will restore wipe out all the other changes you have made on you single XP
system eg email, word files etc that have been added to over the days of the
testing. I find it cleaner (to use your word) to be able to extended tests
without having any effect on my live system. I have an XP partition that I
boot just for video work and another for ad hoc testing.

Yes, but you dont need two full XP installs to be able to do that.

but its cleaner if you do

ted