Super Browser Outdoes Internet Explorer

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jack D. Russell, Sr.
  • Start date Start date
And said:
PC World likes MYIE2 a lot in the May 2004 issue due out at
any time. For the article, see
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,115047,00.asp .
It's about time that some of the big wigs are giving credit
where credit's due.
Click to expand...

Of course, it ignores the fact that MYIE2 *IS* Internet
Explorer, so the claim that it "outdoes" IE is ridiculous.

--
:-) Christopher Jahn
:-(

http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html

Be careful, the last person using this keyboard had a terminal
disease.
 
Of course, it ignores the fact that MYIE2 *IS* Internet
Explorer, so the claim that it "outdoes" IE is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

I actually find it to be YOUR claim which is ridiculous. MyIE2 uses
the same renderer as Internet Explorer--that much is true. However,
that's where the similiarity is. Similarly, Firefox uses the same
renderer as Mozilla--yet I don't hear any complaints or corrections
when someone says that Firefox is "better" than Mozilla. It really is
a blatant double-standard that any browser based on the Internet
Explorer rendering engine "*IS* Internet Explorer", but that any
browser based on Gecko is not necessarily Mozilla.

So to recap: Rendering engine is NOT the same as the browser. To
claim otherwise simply shows a severe lack of understanding of just
what a browser is.

Oh, and since I'm sure it will undoubtedly come up, my browser of
choice is Opera, with MyIE2 coming in second, with Mozilla in third.
 
And said:
I actually find it to be YOUR claim which is ridiculous.
MyIE2 uses the same renderer as Internet Explorer--that
much is true. However, that's where the similiarity is.
Similarly, Firefox uses the same renderer as Mozilla--yet I
don't hear any complaints or corrections when someone says
that Firefox is "better" than Mozilla
Click to expand...

Now there's a strawman for you. Why are we discussing
software unrelated to MYIE2 and IE? I didn't bring them up.
I haven't made a comparison between Mozilla and Firebird. I
have never even argued the merits of one over the other, but
here you are trying to stick the words in my mouth as if it
bolstered your position somehow.

And in fact, using them undermines your argument: Mozilla
isn't a browser, it's an internet suite with a mail client,
web-page composer and a messaging system while Firebird is a
browser. Both MYIE2 an IE are browsers, with extremely
similar feature sets. Does MYIE2 do it faster? Probably, but
a Ford with a supercharger goes faster, but it's still a Ford,
and MYIE2 is still IE; it's just a pretty new GUI.

And for the record, I consider Firefox to be the Mozilla
browser, only stripped down. Because that's what it is.

--
:-) Christopher Jahn
:-(

http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html

We're not doing scientific research, we're killing people.
 
Now there's a strawman for you.
Click to expand...

No, it's not. You're saying that MYIE2 *is* Internet Explorer
because it uses the Internet Explorer rendering engine. If that's
true, then Mozilla, Firefox, Galeon, and K-Meleon are all the same
browser as well.
Why are we discussing software unrelated to MYIE2 and IE? I
didn't bring them up. I haven't made a comparison between Mozilla
and Firebird. I have never even argued the merits of one over the
other, but here you are trying to stick the words in my mouth as
if it bolstered your position somehow.
Click to expand...

Wrong, I didn't put the words in your mouth. Please, point out
which words I put into your mouth.
And in fact, using them undermines your argument: Mozilla
isn't a browser,
Click to expand...

Really? So when I go to www.mozilla.org, and the title of the
webpage is "mozilla - home of the mozilla, firefox, and camino *WEB
BROWSERS*" (emphasis mine), I suppose they're wrong, and you're
right?
it's an internet suite with a mail client, web-page composer and a
messaging system while Firebird is a browser.
Click to expand...

Apparently, Mozilla, Firefox AND Camino are browsers--at least
according to the respective developers. But bah, what do they know,
right?
Both MYIE2 an IE are browsers, with extremely similar feature
sets. Does MYIE2 do it faster? Probably, but a Ford with a
supercharger goes faster, but it's still a Ford, and MYIE2 is
still IE; it's just a pretty new GUI.
Click to expand...

No, it's not IE. Your entire argument is based on the idea that the
rendering engine is the whole of the browser. Because MYIE2 uses the
Internet Explorer rendering engine
And for the record, I consider Firefox to be the Mozilla
browser, only stripped down. Because that's what it is.
Click to expand...

Now answer these questions, since I haven't yet seen a clear
explanation:

1.) Your entire argument centers around the fact that MyIE2 uses
Internet Explorer for its rendering, and therefore *IS* Internet
Explorer, correct or not.

2.) If "MyIE2 *IS* Internet Explorer" because it uses the same
rendering engine, then are K-Meleon, Galeon, and Firebird--all of
which use the Mozilla rendering engine--Mozilla?
 
snippity snip

Now answer these questions, since I haven't yet seen a clear
explanation:

1.) Your entire argument centers around the fact that MyIE2 uses
Internet Explorer for its rendering, and therefore *IS* Internet
Explorer, correct or not.

2.) If "MyIE2 *IS* Internet Explorer" because it uses the same
rendering engine, then are K-Meleon, Galeon, and Firebird--all of
which use the Mozilla rendering engine--Mozilla?
Click to expand...

dkg_ctc,

I also agree that they are similar, BUT they ARE NOT the same.

You are aware that you may well be flogging a dead horse when it comes to
Christopher Jahn's oppinion arent you? But remember he IS entitled to his
opinion even if we think he is wrong.

--
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
None of the ideas expressed above are acutally mine.

They are told to me by the eight inch tall space beings
who live in my PC. In return for these ideas,
I have given them permission to suck my brains out.
Oops, I forgot to tell them I have none! ;)
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
 
dkg_ctc said:
I actually find it to be YOUR claim which is ridiculous. MyIE2 uses
the same renderer as Internet Explorer--that much is true. However,
that's where the similiarity is. Similarly, Firefox uses the same
renderer as Mozilla--yet I don't hear any complaints or corrections
when someone says that Firefox is "better" than Mozilla. It really is
a blatant double-standard that any browser based on the Internet
Explorer rendering engine "*IS* Internet Explorer", but that any
browser based on Gecko is not necessarily Mozilla.

So to recap: Rendering engine is NOT the same as the browser. To
claim otherwise simply shows a severe lack of understanding of just
what a browser is.

Oh, and since I'm sure it will undoubtedly come up, my browser of
choice is Opera, with MyIE2 coming in second, with Mozilla in third.
Click to expand...

I prefer SlimBrowser myself .
http://www.flashpeak.com/sbrowser/
 
I actually find it to be YOUR claim which is ridiculous. MyIE2 uses
the same renderer as Internet Explorer--that much is true. However,
that's where the similiarity is. Similarly, Firefox uses the same
renderer as Mozilla--yet I don't hear any complaints or corrections
when someone says that Firefox is "better" than Mozilla.
Click to expand...

It goes without saying that Myie2 adds GUI functions not available in IE.
So it is different (which can be "better" or "worse" depending on your
tastes) in some sense of the word but not in others (rendering, security
etc)

My issue with the article is that it keeps referring to Myie2 as a
different browser compared to IE comparing it with the same breath as
mozilla, Opera. It can mislead newbies into thinking that with Myie2 they
don't need IE any more.

I believe that when referring to Myie2 it is important to call it a IE
shell has opposed to browser (which definitely needs to includes the html
rendering engine, the most important part without which the browser is a
joke) as Myie2 does not come with the html rendering engine (it can even
use gecko).


Whether you want to debate if mozilla or Firefox are different "browsers"
is up to you, but no one can doubt they are really full fledged browsers
because when you download them they come with both the html rendering
engine and the interface.

BTW if you are wondering what type of windows systems wouldn't have IE, I
can point out that if people start to call IE shells, "browsers" , very
soon you will have people erdicating IE on the premise they don't need it
:)


It really is
a blatant double-standard that any browser based on the Internet
Explorer rendering engine "*IS* Internet Explorer", but that any
browser based on Gecko is not necessarily Mozilla.
Click to expand...

Mozilla Firefox is the offical name I believe. So it is 'mozilla'.

But of course either Mozilla or Firefox by whatever definition is
definitely not the same browser as IE no matter how you spin things, and
that's the normal comparison when talking about alternative browsers.

So to recap: Rendering engine is NOT the same as the browser. To
claim otherwise simply shows a severe lack of understanding of just
what a browser is.
Click to expand...

To recap a "browser" that doesn't come with a rendering engine wouldn't be
a browser I think.
 
It goes without saying that Myie2 adds GUI functions not available
in IE. So it is different (which can be "better" or "worse"
depending on your tastes) in some sense of the word but not in
others (rendering, security etc)
Click to expand...

I agree.
My issue with the article is that it keeps referring to Myie2 as a
different browser compared to IE comparing it with the same breath
as mozilla, Opera. It can mislead newbies into thinking that with
Myie2 they don't need IE any more.
Click to expand...

I also agree with this. When comparing MyIE2 (or any browser/app
based on the IE rendering engine) to IE, it should be pointed out
that it requires IE. Whether referring to it as an IE shell, or an
Internet Explorer-based browser (my preference), I think there should
be a distinction made.
I believe that when referring to Myie2 it is important to call it
a IE shell
Click to expand...

I prefer Internet Explorer-based browser.
has opposed to browser (which definitely needs to includes the
html rendering engine, the most important part without which the
browser is a joke)
Click to expand...

But we can reverse that and say that just a rendering engine--which
is what MSHTML.DLL is--is a joke, and that without an interface it's
not a browser as well.
as Myie2 does not come with the html rendering engine (it can even
use gecko).


Whether you want to debate if mozilla or Firefox are different
"browsers" is up to you, but no one can doubt they are really
full fledged browsers because when you download them they come
with both the html rendering engine and the interface.
Click to expand...

I disagree with you...at least to me, a browser is something that
*USES* a rendering engine. It doesn't necessarily have to include the
engine.
BTW if you are wondering what type of windows systems wouldn't
have IE, I can point out that if people start to call IE shells,
"browsers" , very soon you will have people erdicating IE on the
premise they don't need it
:)
Click to expand...

Right, I agree that some distinction needs to be made, so as to avoid
confusion.
Mozilla Firefox is the offical name I believe. So it is 'mozilla'.

But of course either Mozilla or Firefox by whatever definition is
definitely not the same browser as IE no matter how you spin
things, and that's the normal comparison when talking about
alternative browsers.
Click to expand...

Mozilla Firefox, Mozilla, K-Meleon, and Galeon are *not* the same
browsers, despite using the same engine. The same goes for MyIE2,
Avant, Slimbrowser, Green Browser, etc, etc.
To recap a "browser" that doesn't come with a rendering engine
wouldn't be a browser I think.
Click to expand...

A rendering engine that doesn't come with a browser isn't a browser
either. Just because the rendering engine is separate from the UI
doesn't make the end result not a browser.
 
It was a dark and stormy night when Aaron
To recap a "browser" that doesn't come with a rendering engine
wouldn't be a browser I think.
Click to expand...

So following your line of thought a text editor that doesn't come
packed with its *own* edit control it's not a text editor anymore but
a shell?

I don't think so.

Regards
 
*snip*
dkg_ctc,

I also agree that they are similar, BUT they ARE NOT the same.

You are aware that you may well be flogging a dead horse when it
comes to Christopher Jahn's oppinion arent you? But remember he IS
entitled to his opinion even if we think he is wrong.
Click to expand...

I agree that he's entitled to his opinion, I'm just tired of the
"MyIE2 isn't a real browser, stupid!" tone that seems to come up any
time someone compares MyIE2 to Internet Explorer.
 
Perhaps this would be a good time to mention that the newer versions of
MyIE2 can use Gecko engine?
 
And said:
I disagree with you...at least to me, a browser is
something that *USES* a rendering engine. It doesn't
necessarily have to include the engine.
Click to expand...

"An automobile is something that *USES* an enging. It doesn't
necessarily have to include the engine."

A browser that uses an external engine is not a complete
program but a GUI at best, or a shell at worst.

--
:-) Christopher Jahn
:-(

http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html

Biggest security gap - an open mouth.
 
"An automobile is something that *USES* an enging. It doesn't
necessarily have to include the engine."
Click to expand...

Car analogies suck. Nuff said.
A browser that uses an external engine is not a complete
program but a GUI at best, or a shell at worst.
Click to expand...

You're simply restating your position, and using it as if it's fact.
Sorry, but it's no more fact now than it was when you first uttered
it.
 
And said:
You're simply restating your position, and using it as if
it's fact. Sorry, but it's no more fact now than it was
when you first uttered
Click to expand...

It holds precisely as much merit as yours.

Shall we argue chocolate or vanilla next?

--
:-) Christopher Jahn
:-(

http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html

Any cat that behaves like a dog is welcome in my universe.
(Jonathan Carroll)
 
It holds precisely as much merit as yours.

Shall we argue chocolate or vanilla next?
Click to expand...

How about you answer the questions that I posed to you--and which you
avoided--elsewhere in this thread? I know, it's a novel idea,
actually addressing the other side's points in a debate, but I think
it's an idea that could catch on.
 
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