study_hall

  • Thread starter Thread starter Reynold DeMarco Jr
  • Start date Start date
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Reynold DeMarco Jr

Hello all,

I am starting a new yahoo group for college students earning a degree
in Computer Science. Some times when you post to groups like this one
the reply is I won't tell you because you are a college student and
you should learn. Unfortunately this does not help us learn but just
frustrates us. So if you are a student and want answers to your
problems today join this group and help each other.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/study_hall/

Promoted by

Reynold DeMarco Jr.
http://www.reynolddemarcojr.com
 
I'm going to have to disagree with this load of crap.

No one EVER in this group has said your a college student and need to learn.
If so they aren't regulars here. HOWEVER, we will NOT do your homework for
you. Don't post a problem and ask us to solve it. We will give you the
guidance along the way, but like us you have to solve it in the end. Ask
questoins, ask about namespaces, ask us what function would be good to use
here, but dont' ask us to write it, otherwise your learning nothing and just
become one of the wasted many of failed hacks taking good jobs in the world.

This isn't meant to be bad, but I'm pretty insulted by this comment as I'm
sure many others will be.

-CJ
 
CJ Taylor said:
No one EVER in this group has said your a college student and need to
Click to expand...
learn.

CJ has hit the nail on the head... :-) I never seen it happen but heck I've
only been using USENET for 14 years or so :-)


Reynold... just gather the assignments and post all the A+ answers :-)
Seriously a study hall is a good idea but nobody has refused to give a
student an answer. Well okay one guy, one time, somewhere about something
but it is uncommon.
 
O.K. Thank you gentlemen for your feedback. I'll just say I have run into
this problem not only in newsgroups but with professors at the university
where the answer is Oh! I can't give you anymore information on that - I'll
be giving you the answers.

Having said that, I think starting this newsgroup for students is a great
idea where a freshman can get help from a junior in their off-time and
off-campus through their home computer. I just recently posted to the Sun
Java Developer Forum and overnight had a student in Hawaii answer my not so
difficult but extremely important question where I am in Massachusetts.

If you gentlemen would like to join this group I will consider the wording
of the introduction which is a trivial matter.

Respectfully,

Reynold DeMarco Jr.
 
Reynold:

With all due respect, I've never seen anyone not help a college student. By
Help, I mean give them guidance. The problem is, most of the time they want
the answer, not help with it. I know in this forum that I personally helped
someone who said she needed help with an assignment, so did a few other
people. But when you get some crap like

I need to create 4 arrays and load the contents of no more than 2 and no
less than 7 blahhblabhhahs and I have to use a foreach loop not an integer
based loop etc...it's just too fishy.

I'll gladly check out and assist in your group, but I thihnk your premise is
flawed.
 
Be very careful when looking for answers to your homework questions.
Professor's do not assign work for students that cannot be done without the
aid of a newsgroup. If the professor wants you to just find people who know
the answer and ask them what it is, then I would suggest that you just ask
the professor himself. He certainly knows the answer, and you see him on a
regular basis.

Sure, the easy way to solving the problem is to ask and have it provided for
you. The better developer is a problem-solver. There is no shortage of
resources available outside of newsgroups. Programming Language
Specifications, Documentation, Websites, Textbooks, periodicals, etc. -
check them out. Sure, you may end up reading some book or article for an
hour only to find out that it did not have the answer you were looking for,
but that's life - grab another one and keep going. Think through the
problem yourself.

The reason people are frustrated with students who ask for answers is
because many students have always just found some cop-out way to get the
right answer, so later on even simple assignments seem really tough because
they have a shaky foundation at best. These people generally don't want
help - they want quick answers. They are much more concerned with grades
than with learning. They are the people that graduate and then wonder why
the industry expects them to continue learning and developing more skills.
I am not against a college education; I am proud of mine and believe it has
served me well. But the sooner you start to educate yourself, the sooner
you will actually learn something.


Brian Davis
http://www.knowdotnet.com
 
Reynold DeMarco Jr said:
O.K. Thank you gentlemen for your feedback. I'll just say I have run into
this problem not only in newsgroups but with professors at the university
where the answer is Oh! I can't give you anymore information on that - I'll
be giving you the answers.
Click to expand...

That's only because if the professor gave you any more information he/she
would indeed be giving you the answer :-)

Let's say I posted a series of simple math questions, simple additions,
subtractions and the like. Would you spend any time answering me? Would
anybody from your study group do so? Perhaps you do spend hours on
"alt.simplemath" answering every question that comes along regardless of how
many introductory math books explain it but I doubt it.

Is it because it's a "computer language" that makes it different than
addition? Is your idea is that I have to figure out addition but you don't
have to look up the syntax for sorting an array in .Net in the help file?
Having said that, I think starting this newsgroup for students is a great
idea where a freshman can get help from a junior in their off-time and
off-campus through their home computer. I just recently posted to the Sun
Java Developer Forum and overnight had a student in Hawaii answer my not so
difficult but extremely important question where I am in Massachusetts.
Click to expand...

It's a "reasonable" idea... the fountain of information regarding vb.net is
this newsgroup not one you just started on Yahoo. But something seems to be
getting lost in the translation as we are well aware of the Hawaii/Mass
Internet gateway. :-) Would you like an opinion sent from Austria or
Belgium I can give you names... if you search for my oldest postings you'll
see they originate from Hawaii also.
If you gentlemen would like to join this group I will consider the wording
of the introduction which is a trivial matter.
Click to expand...

Oh gosh don't go to any trouble... if we really, really wanted to join a
Yahoo group I think we could start one couldn't we? What are you bringing
to the table besides your lack of PR skills I mean? :-)

Pardon me while I ponder the miracle of getting information in Massachusetts
all the way from Hawaii... how did this guy do it I wonder?
 
I just wanted to comment on Brians comments because he made some really
valid points.
Brian Davis said:
Be very careful when looking for answers to your homework questions.
Professor's do not assign work for students that cannot be done without the
aid of a newsgroup. If the professor wants you to just find people who know
the answer and ask them what it is, then I would suggest that you just ask
the professor himself. He certainly knows the answer, and you see him on a
regular basis.
Click to expand...

Yes. =)
Sure, the easy way to solving the problem is to ask and have it provided for
you. The better developer is a problem-solver.
Click to expand...

That's kinda the reason the people in this group got into software
development. If we wanted an easy way out we would have gone into
communications. =)

no one ever (and I know everyone here can agree) said programming was easy.
There is no shortage of
resources available outside of newsgroups. Programming Language
Specifications, Documentation, Websites, Textbooks, periodicals, etc. -
check them out. Sure, you may end up reading some book or article for an
hour only to find out that it did not have the answer you were looking for,
but that's life - grab another one and keep going.
Click to expand...

Even if you find the article useless that you read, you did read it, you now
have the knowledge and never know when you can use it again. I try to read
around 3 articles a day (which with the rate they come out isn't enough)
just to keep my mind sharp and learn from others and what there process is
in programming, maybe learn something new that you can use later. Again,
this is the reason most of us became developers.



Think through the
problem yourself.

The reason people are frustrated with students who ask for answers is
because many students have always just found some cop-out way to get the
right answer, so later on even simple assignments seem really tough because
they have a shaky foundation at best. These people generally don't want
help - they want quick answers. They are much more concerned with grades
than with learning. They are the people that graduate and then wonder why
the industry expects them to continue learning and developing more skills.
Click to expand...

Exactly. And then put upon it, they don't want to.. which leaves a bad
taste for developers in general and the institution they came from.
I am not against a college education; I am proud of mine and believe it has
served me well. But the sooner you start to educate yourself, the sooner
you will actually learn something.
Click to expand...

Anyone thats been through college will tell you, that most of the stuff you
learn in college that you use isn't in the classroom, and what you learn in
the classroom you never use again. =) I am glad I got my expensive peice
of paper, but thats not what makes me a good (maybe not) developer.

Again, well stated Brain.

-CJ
 
spamfurnace said:
I guess your expecting a lot of female developers to join your little "Study
Group". I dont know about anyone else but i have no interest in furthering
the skills of a future porn site webmaster. Go learn PHP!
Click to expand...

Uhhhh you might want to cut back on the caffeine.
 
So you gentlemen are all to familiar with the studnet who hands you his
homework and comes across with something like do it with me quickly. Now how
about if these students came together in one group. Then they can
communicate and understand just what the each one expects to get from the
group which could be just answers and could be alot more. But since they are
all working at the same college level they can relate better. Someone might
be pressed for time due to another assignment and just take the answers this
time and come back to review later but so is life.

One more thing, about people who have "14 years on the newsgroups" - I don't
think this posting was directed at you. I believe the posting was for
college students needing quick help.

Reynold
 
What about this?

copied from the microsoft.dotnet.languages.csharp

The 'requirements' the students post often indicate they are being
used by slimey teaching assistants or adjunct professors who pimp
students as resources needed to develop projects that the pimps
later have other students work on until something saleable results.

I learned this the hard way when I was in school as I saw this occur
and was also a victim of having my own work taken and used by
employees of the university for commercial gain. I saw neither credit
to help me advance in my career nor did I see a single penney of
compensation. I earned my attitude.

I also believe there are a number of dumbf*ck Dreamweaver
'developers' posing as students who need someone to save their
@ss at work when pushing buttons will not produce results.

These reasons are why as much as I would like to help a student
I rarely offer project specific advice and limit my advice to
resource referrals.

--
<%= Clinton Gallagher
A/E/C Consulting, Web Design, e-Commerce Software Development
Wauwatosa, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin USA
NET (e-mail address removed)
URL http://www.metromilwaukee.com/clintongallagher/
 
Reynold...

Now I'm really lost. I don't know how you've programmed your Yahoo site but
you've responded to my reply to "spamfurnace" with a question. That makes
me think that you think that I wrote all that stuff.

Please try to reply to the person who posts the nonsense, it helps keep the
non sequiturs organized.
 
No sir, I am not questioning your actions but for your information I will be
posting an ad to join this yahoo group on the bulletin boards of the
University of Massachusetts, Boston College, Boston University, Northeastern
University, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and Harvard University.
If you are still available please join this group now. Thank you for your
time in this matter.

Yours today,

Reynold DeMarco Jr
http://www.reynolddemarcojr.com
 
Reynold DeMarco Jr said:
What about this?
Click to expand...

<quote from Clinton Gallagher removed>

Reynold... you'll be labelled a troll if you don't do better research:

[from milw.general 1/30/2003]
When I say Milwaukee is the sh!thole of the United States
people misunderstand and seem to prefer to think of me as
one of those 'disgruntled' people the pimps write about in their
"How to Manage Difficult People" books but the facts are such
statements of mine are the literal truth.
Click to expand...

[from alt.cellular 1/28/2001]
Thanks for posting that resource because Pimping Dees
must be followed around for the rest of his slimy stinking
miserable life and exposed for the skunk that he is.
Click to expand...

[from milw.general 7/15/2001]
Gandhi was a Muslim and Gandhi was extremely political.
Click to expand...

It was noted by a respondent that Gandhi was in fact a Hindu. Do a search
and you will find he posts inflammatory messages on lots of newsgroups.
Reynold... your attempts to even start your group have been compromised.
First by your characterization of the people you are seeminly trying to
recruit and now your quoting of somebody who is plainly over the edge.

I think it's time to let the thread die...

Tom
 
Reynold DeMarco Jr said:
No sir, I am not questioning your actions but for your information I will be
posting an ad to join this yahoo group on the bulletin boards of the
University of Massachusetts, Boston College, Boston University, Northeastern
University, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and Harvard University.
If you are still available please join this group now. Thank you for your
time in this matter.
Click to expand...

So let me understand this a guy from Hawaii helps you out and the students
from the University of Hawaii don't get an invitation? If you like I could
post a 3 x 5 index card on a couple of grocery store bulletin boards in the
area. :-)

Hey... where's Stanford? Where's Berkeley?
 
First of all, I am not a "14 years on the newsgroups" guy. I graduated from
college only a couple of years ago, and I know exactly what you are talking
about.

I do not think that a forum for students to exchange ideas and learn from
each other is a bad idea. I think that a forum for students with the
expressed purpose of helping each other with assignments is a very
dangerous, if not bad, idea.

Your statement - "Someone might be pressed for time due to another
assignment and just take the answers this time and come back to review later
but so is life" - is what troubles me. A student should never turn in
someone else's work and claim it to be his own. That is cheating. If you
were really pressed for time and not getting an A on the assignment would
mean that you would lose a scholarship or get kicked out of school, then it
is _still_ cheating. The circumstances don't change the fact. This is the
central issue, and it is why people often get upset with students. If you
can't complete the assignment on your own, then you pay the consequences.
Sure, losing a scholarship stinks - been there, done that. At least I
earned every grade that I got, good or bad, and I am better for it.

I do not intend to pass judgment on students seeking help. I just want to
give advice to those that are looking for a shortcut - earn it. Work hard
and learn. If all you really want is an easy A, then in the end, that's all
you'll really have.


Brian Davis
http://www.knowdotnet.com
 
Hi Reynold,

I think this is not a good idea.

One of the bad things from closed communities is that they teach themselves.

Examples: Sparta in the ancient time and Belgium in the 14century.

One of those things is that there is no progress. Students, who learn each
other, are learning each other also the stupid things, and often it is a
route back to the past.

I think it is better to get your knowledge from open newsgroups like this.

I never saw that a student not is helped. In contraire, by instance, Tom
Leyton loves it and you see that with this writing, I enjoy it also.


Just my 2 eurocents.

Cor
 
Why mention what you are doing? You can simply post your message and get
your answer. You must be facing those kind of answers probably because
you are arguing and not learning.

with regards,


J.V.Ravichandran
- http://www.geocities.com/
jvravichandran
- http://www.411asp.net/func/search?
qry=Ravichandran+J.V.&cob=aspnetpro
- http://www.southasianoutlook.com
- http://www.MSDNAA.Net
- http://www.csharphelp.com
- http://www.poetry.com/Publications/
display.asp?ID=P3966388&BN=999&PN=2
- Or, just search on "J.V.Ravichandran"
at http://www.Google.com
 
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