Strange behaviour...

  • Thread starter Thread starter S.B.
  • Start date Start date
S

S.B.

I'm suddenly getting strange behaviour by my computer
unassociated with any particular activity:

1. It freezes, the mouse pointer will not respond and whatever
was displayed remains in view but static ie. no blank screen
or BSOD.
2. The hard disk activity light on the front of the case becomes
permanently on though there's no audible or other indication
of disk activity
2. The only thing that will recover it is to reboot and then I find
that my CD-RW has disappeared.
3. If I switch the computer off by holding in the power button for
a few seconds after 30 seconds or so it spontaneously restarts.
4. Removing the battery for several minutes (there is no 'Clear
CMOS' jumper) restablishes the CD-RW and all seems to be
well until the next freeze which may be hours or minutes away.

I'm quite sure that this isn't an overheating problem and I'm at a
loss to know the cause. Does anyone know what it is from those
symptoms? My best guess is a failing PSU or motherboard.

GA-7VAX
AMD XP2400 not overclocked
Crucial PC2100
Enermax 350W
Asus CD-R on IDE 1
Plextor CD-RW on IDE 2
Seagate Barracuda on Promise TX2 Ultra/100 Controller IDE 1
Seagate Barracuda on Promise IDE 2
MSI G4Ti4200
Win98SE
All latest drivers, firmware etc and problem doesn't follow from
a driver update or installation of a new program
Good processor and case cooling
Components reseated and connections checked
AVG, ZoneAlarm, Spybot etc.
 
I'm suddenly getting strange behaviour by my computer
unassociated with any particular activity:

1. It freezes, the mouse pointer will not respond and whatever
was displayed remains in view but static ie. no blank screen
or BSOD.
2. The hard disk activity light on the front of the case becomes
permanently on though there's no audible or other indication
of disk activity
2. The only thing that will recover it is to reboot and then I find
that my CD-RW has disappeared.
3. If I switch the computer off by holding in the power button for
a few seconds after 30 seconds or so it spontaneously restarts.
4. Removing the battery for several minutes (there is no 'Clear
CMOS' jumper) restablishes the CD-RW and all seems to be
well until the next freeze which may be hours or minutes away.

I'm quite sure that this isn't an overheating problem and I'm at a
loss to know the cause. Does anyone know what it is from those
symptoms? My best guess is a failing PSU or motherboard.

GA-7VAX
AMD XP2400 not overclocked
Crucial PC2100
Enermax 350W
Asus CD-R on IDE 1
Plextor CD-RW on IDE 2
Seagate Barracuda on Promise TX2 Ultra/100 Controller IDE 1
Seagate Barracuda on Promise IDE 2
MSI G4Ti4200
Win98SE
All latest drivers, firmware etc and problem doesn't follow from
a driver update or installation of a new program
Good processor and case cooling
Components reseated and connections checked
AVG, ZoneAlarm, Spybot etc.
Click to expand...

Does it do this in,"Safemode"?



--
Free Windows/PC help,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html
email shepATpartyheld.de
Free songs download,
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/nomessiahsmusic.htm
 
S.B. said:
I'm quite sure that this isn't an overheating problem and I'm at a
loss to know the cause. Does anyone know what it is from those
symptoms? My best guess is a failing PSU or motherboard.
Click to expand...

Those are a royal pain to debug, but I'd have to agree with the
suspicion on a motherboard component. Perhaps the IDE controller. I
might try to reproduce the problem on a fresh new different hard disk
though just to rule something subtle out there. Does Win98 have an
equivalent to win2k's Event Viewer where you might be able to see any
possible errors?

I had random freezing problems similar to that on a machine I never
could debug despite the thing passing all hardware tests and
exhaustive hardware tests with flying colors and never locking up
under the DOS mode the diagnostics ran under.

In my case, the box I wanted to throttle was an AMD Athlon 800 on an
Abit KT7-RAID motherboard. I replaced it with newer faster Intel/Asus
system and haven't seen a similar problem since. But I wouldn't draw
much conclusion from my single datapoint.

Good luck in your debugging quest.
 
On 08 Jan 2004, Shep© wrote:
(snipped)
S.B. wrote :
Click to expand...
Does it do this in,"Safemode"?
Click to expand...

Dunno - when the problem appears it's too late to go into Safe Mode.
If I reboot into Safe Mode I can't use my computer properly or afford
to wait the possible hours before it freezes. The CD-RW doesn't
appear anyway in that mode.

I've been reading about bad capacitors but they seem to cause
failure to boot or random reboots. Mine starts fine but at some
random time, sometimes not at all, it just freezes.
 
On 08 Jan 2004, Shep© wrote:
(snipped)



Dunno - when the problem appears it's too late to go into Safe Mode.
If I reboot into Safe Mode I can't use my computer properly or afford
to wait the possible hours before it freezes. The CD-RW doesn't
appear anyway in that mode.

I've been reading about bad capacitors but they seem to cause
failure to boot or random reboots. Mine starts fine but at some
random time, sometimes not at all, it just freezes.
Click to expand...

Install the free Ms tweakUI,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/tweakui.html
In it's paranoia Tab enable the faultlog.txt
Use this to see if you can track down a specific fault call as it's
not always a hardware issue.
Also disable the APM in the BIOS if possible.



--
Free Windows/PC help,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html
email shepATpartyheld.de
Free songs download,
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/nomessiahsmusic.htm
 
I'm suddenly getting strange behaviour by my computer
unassociated with any particular activity:

1. It freezes, the mouse pointer will not respond and whatever
was displayed remains in view but static ie. no blank screen
or BSOD.
Click to expand...

I suppose it's implied, but just to confirm, there's no response at
all from keyboard either? These are USB or PS/2?
2. The hard disk activity light on the front of the case becomes
permanently on though there's no audible or other indication
of disk activity
Click to expand...

Is it possible the system had been on for long enoough that the drives
had spun down, gone into sleep mode? Try disabling the HDD power-dwon
setting, in bios and windows.
2. The only thing that will recover it is to reboot and then I find
that my CD-RW has disappeared.
Click to expand...

Have you tried shutting off the system, leaving it off for at least 10
seconds, then restarting, and the CDRW is still missing, you've found
no way to get it back except resetting CMOS?
3. If I switch the computer off by holding in the power button for
a few seconds after 30 seconds or so it spontaneously restarts.
Click to expand...

How long has it been doing this? How long had it been working
properly, previously?

Might be the power supply. If you have a voltage meter you might
check the 5VSB and power on (PS_ON) power supply leads. They should
be very nearly 5V.
4. Removing the battery for several minutes (there is no 'Clear
CMOS' jumper) restablishes the CD-RW and all seems to be
well until the next freeze which may be hours or minutes away.

I'm quite sure that this isn't an overheating problem and I'm at a
loss to know the cause. Does anyone know what it is from those
symptoms? My best guess is a failing PSU or motherboard.
Click to expand...

Check the larger capacitors to the left of the northbridge. for signs
of venting, bludging, leaking, residue on top or bottom.

The power supply may be marginal capacity for that system on it's 5V
rail... is the 5V reading low OR the 12V high? A voltage meter would
be much more accurate but a bios reading would be a good start.

GA-7VAX
AMD XP2400 not overclocked
Crucial PC2100
Enermax 350W
Asus CD-R on IDE 1
Plextor CD-RW on IDE 2
Seagate Barracuda on Promise TX2 Ultra/100 Controller IDE 1
Seagate Barracuda on Promise IDE 2
MSI G4Ti4200
Win98SE
All latest drivers, firmware etc and problem doesn't follow from
a driver update or installation of a new program
Good processor and case cooling
Components reseated and connections checked
AVG, ZoneAlarm, Spybot etc.
Click to expand...

I also suspect an IDE device. You might try running wihtout one, then
the other, CDRW, see if that resolves it, and run the Seagate
Diagnostics test on the drives. Unfortunately the power supply
could damage a drive, it's possible you could need replace the power
supply AND then keep the drives disconnected, reconnect one at a time
to verify proper operation.
 
On 08 Jan 2004, Shep© wrote:
(snipped)
Install the free Ms tweakUI,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/tweakui.html
In it's paranoia Tab enable the faultlog.txt
Use this to see if you can track down a specific fault call as it's
not always a hardware issue.
Click to expand...

I already have this but when my computer freezes nothing
can be written to the log! No error shows before the freeze.
I've restored a Ghost image from a time when I wasn't having
this problem, but it remains.
Also disable the APM in the BIOS if possible.
Click to expand...

I don't see this in my Award BIOS.

Thanks for the follow-up.
 
Those are a royal pain to debug, but I'd have to agree with the
suspicion on a motherboard component. Perhaps the IDE controller. I
might try to reproduce the problem on a fresh new different hard disk
though just to rule something subtle out there. Does Win98 have an
equivalent to win2k's Event Viewer where you might be able to see any
possible errors?
Click to expand...

I checked the hard disks with Seagate's utility and no error is reported.
Shep suggested I look at TweakUI's fault logging facility but, again,
nothing comes up.
I had random freezing problems similar to that on a machine I never
could debug despite the thing passing all hardware tests and
exhaustive hardware tests with flying colors and never locking up
under the DOS mode the diagnostics ran under.
Click to expand...

Yes, I suspect it's some odd IDE or other motherboard fault which I'll
never get to the bottom of.
In my case, the box I wanted to throttle was an AMD Athlon 800 on an
Abit KT7-RAID motherboard. I replaced it with newer faster Intel/Asus
system and haven't seen a similar problem since. But I wouldn't draw
much conclusion from my single datapoint.
Click to expand...

Replacing the motherboard and reloading all my programs, updates,
tweaks and so on is a major pain!
Good luck in your debugging quest.
Click to expand...

Thanks and for the follow-up.
 
S.B. wrote:
Click to expand...
I suppose it's implied, but just to confirm, there's no response at
all from keyboard either? These are USB or PS/2?
Click to expand...

PS/2 and no response to anything except rebooting. 'Reset' now
results in the OS failing to load before another freeze; only if I press
the power button for several seconds and then wait several minutes
before rebooting will it start.
Is it possible the system had been on for long enoough that the drives
had spun down, gone into sleep mode? Try disabling the HDD power-
down setting, in bios and windows.
Click to expand...

No, it's not that as it will freeze when I'm working on something.
Have you tried shutting off the system, leaving it off for at least 10
seconds, then restarting, and the CDRW is still missing, you've found
no way to get it back except resetting CMOS?
Click to expand...

Yes, that was the situation; now I find that if I leave it off for long enough
the CD-RW reappears but another crash will come sooner or later!
How long has it been doing this? How long had it been working
properly, previously?
Click to expand...

For about a week and it was fine for a year beforehand.
Might be the power supply. If you have a voltage meter you might
check the 5VSB and power on (PS_ON) power supply leads. They
should be very nearly 5V.
Click to expand...

Motherboard Monitor reports 4.97v on the 5v rail if that means much.
Check the larger capacitors to the left of the northbridge. for signs
of venting, bludging, leaking, residue on top or bottom.
Click to expand...

Nothing evident there.
I also suspect an IDE device. You might try running wihtout one, then
the other, CDRW, see if that resolves it, and run the Seagate
Diagnostics test on the drives. Unfortunately the power supply
could damage a drive, it's possible you could need replace the power
supply AND then keep the drives disconnected, reconnect one at a time
to verify proper operation.
Click to expand...

I ran the Seagate test on both drives and no fault was found with them.
I'm inclined to get a new (Zalman) PSU and see if that cures it.

Thanks for the response.
 
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