Storing a hard drive in a safety deposit box?

[Eric]

I would like to store a hard drive containing backups of my important
files in an off-site safety deposit box. Before I do that I have a few
questions I hope someone can answer:

1. Do I need to add dessicant or seal the hard drive in an air-tight
bag, or can I just put it in an open anti-static bag and let it sit in
the box for months or even years if I wanted to?

2. What is the maximum temperature swings a hard drive can endure and
hold its data reliably? We live in the desert where the outside
temperatures can reach 115 F in the summer and there is no air
conditioning in the bank where the safety deposit boxes are, so there
is the potential for wide temperature swings daily and seasonally.

3. Would compact flash, CDRs, or DVD-Rs be better suited to storage in
a safety deposit box where temperatures are not controlled than a hard
drive?

4. As a general question about storing files off-site, if someone is
concerned about the remote possibly of someone stealing the backups
and accessing personal files, would is the best way to protect the
data? For instance, would most people PGP encrypt the files before
copying them onto the backup or is there an easier way? I assume that
WinZip's built-in password protection is not strong enough to prevent
people from breaking into the files but PGP is strong enough?

 

[Rod Speed]

I would like to store a hard drive containing backups of my
important files in an off-site safety deposit box. Before I do
that I have a few questions I hope someone can answer:

1. Do I need to add dessicant or seal the hard drive in an
air-tight bag, or can I just put it in an open anti-static bag and
let it sit in the box for months or even years if I wanted to?

Dessicant would be worth using, tho likely not necessary.

2. What is the maximum temperature swings a
hard drive can endure and hold its data reliably?

The temps its likely to see are unlikely to be a problem except
when its in the car on the way to or from the safety deposit box.

We live in the desert where the outside temperatures can reach
115 F in the summer and there is no air conditioning in the bank
where the safety deposit boxes are, so there is the potential
for wide temperature swings daily and seasonally.

Should still be fine.

3. Would compact flash, CDRs, or DVD-Rs be
better suited to storage in a safety deposit box where
temperatures are not controlled than a hard drive?
Probably.

4. As a general question about storing files off-site, if someone
is concerned about the remote possibly of someone stealing the
backups and accessing personal files, would is the best way to
protect the data? For instance, would most people PGP encrypt the
files before copying them onto the backup or is there an easier way?

There is with the NT/2K/XP family of OSs.

I assume that WinZip's built-in password protection is not
strong enough to prevent people from breaking into the files
Correct.

but PGP is strong enough?

Yep.

And it may be worth doing particularly if the contents are illegal.
Safety deposits do get looted occasionally but I doubt that those
doing the looting would bother too much anything you are likely to
have. The legal authoritys might if they recover stolen stuff tho.

 

[Arno Wagner]

I would like to store a hard drive containing backups of my important
files in an off-site safety deposit box. Before I do that I have a few
questions I hope someone can answer:

1. Do I need to add dessicant or seal the hard drive in an air-tight
bag, or can I just put it in an open anti-static bag and let it sit in
the box for months or even years if I wanted to?

If there is moisture, seal it.

2. What is the maximum temperature swings a hard drive can endure and
hold its data reliably? We live in the desert where the outside
temperatures can reach 115 F in the summer and there is no air
conditioning in the bank where the safety deposit boxes are, so there
is the potential for wide temperature swings daily and seasonally.

Have a look into the datasheet of the drive. Usually 65C is the
maximum for storage.

3. Would compact flash, CDRs, or DVD-Rs be better suited to storage in
a safety deposit box where temperatures are not controlled than a hard
drive?

Compact flash might be better, CDR/DVD-R will be far worse. The only
really good solution is MOD. Check Fujitsu's website for info on the
drives. It is somewaht expensive, but the only medium on the market
that is designed for long-term storage. I is also fas more heat
resistant than any other medium type, except maybe DVD-RAM. But
DVD-RAM is a somewhat cheap copy of MOD and not up to it's standards.

In my personal opinion HDD is an option if we are talking about 1-3
years of storage time. Maybe 3-5 years with flash. If it is more,
forget about anything except MOD.

4. As a general question about storing files off-site, if someone is
concerned about the remote possibly of someone stealing the backups
and accessing personal files, would is the best way to protect the
data? For instance, would most people PGP encrypt the files before
copying them onto the backup or is there an easier way? I assume that
WinZip's built-in password protection is not strong enough to prevent
people from breaking into the files but PGP is strong enough?

Use GnuPG with AES. With PGP you might have trouble reading the
stuff in a few years, since they some versions ignore the
OpenPGP standard to some degree.

WinZIP's encryption is a toy that impresses no one that knows about
cryptography. The usual mode to do it is to first create an archive
(e.g. With WinZIP) and then encrypt that. One warning: If a single
bit goes bad, you will loose all data after that with encryption.
The way around this is to store more than one copy, even with a
very relible medium like MOD.

Incidentally, long-term data storage is a hard problem. There are
no easy and no cheap solutions that work.

Arno

 

[bill]

1. Do I need to add dessicant or seal the hard drive in an air-tight
bag, or can I just put it in an open anti-static bag and let it sit in
the box for months or even years if I wanted to?

Something that might be an answer:
One of those vacuum sealing systems used to store food in the freezer.
The vacuum pulled shouldn't affect the drive any, and will make an
environment that's pretty much immune to any swings in humidity.

What do you think, Rod?

 

[Rod Speed]

(e-mail address removed) (Eric) wrote

Something that might be an answer:
One of those vacuum sealing systems used to store food in the freezer.
The vacuum pulled shouldn't affect the drive any, and will make an
environment that's pretty much immune to any swings in humidity.

What do you think, Rod?

I wouldnt be that thrilled about the idea of the vacuum
system sucking the air out of the drive chamber. Obviously
that air would have to be replaced when the vacuum bag
was opened and that might not be particularly low humidity air.

I'd personally just put the drive in a container with some desiccant
instead, in case its relatively high humidity in the bank vault at times.

 

[bill]

I wouldnt be that thrilled about the idea of the vacuum
system sucking the air out of the drive chamber. Obviously
that air would have to be replaced when the vacuum bag
was opened and that might not be particularly low humidity air.

I'd personally just put the drive in a container with some desiccant
instead, in case its relatively high humidity in the bank vault at times.

Hmmm...
Wouldn't that high humidity migrate into the drive anyway?

 

[Rod Speed]

Hmmm...
Wouldn't that high humidity migrate into the drive anyway?

Nope, not with desiccant in what the drive is stored in.

 

[Rod Speed]

Hmmm...
Wouldn't that high humidity migrate into the drive anyway?

Nope, not with desiccant in what the drive is stored in.

If the drive is kept in a sealed bag with dissicant inside that,
with the bag at room pressure, the bag will just expand and
contract marginally as the room pressure changes over time.

 

[Al Dykes]

Hmmm...
Wouldn't that high humidity migrate into the drive anyway?

a) bank vaults are not "high" humidity, at least the one's I've been
in, here in the US. People store all sorts of valuable stuff (at
least to them) and they would be upset if they got moldy
(see footnote 1)

b) a hard disk enclosure is made out of metal, and is impervious to
moisture. There is a tiny hole in the case that encloses the heads
and platters that allows the air pressure to be at equilibrium with
the atmosphere. The air volume that passes thru this hole is
insignificant. And disks stay in PCs for years, exposed to a range of
humidity everyday.

The hole is covered with a flter that blocks anything
larger than .1 micron

 

[Rod Speed]

a) bank vaults are not "high" humidity, at least the one's I've been
in, here in the US. People store all sorts of valuable stuff (at
least to them) and they would be upset if they got moldy

I clearly said RELATIVELY high humidity.

When he said they dont bother to aircondition the storage, it
will almost certainly see the same humidity as everywhere else.

(see footnote 1)

No such animal.

b) a hard disk enclosure is made out
of metal, and is impervious to moisture.

The datasheets clearly do have limits on the storage humidity allowed.

There is a tiny hole in the case that encloses the heads and platters
that allows the air pressure to be at equilibrium with the atmosphere.
The air volume that passes thru this hole is insignificant.

In normal circumstances, yes. We happened to be discussing
the use of a vacuum system for the plastic bag the drive is
stored in in that sort of safety deposit box situation tho, and in
THAT situation you would expect more air movement thru that
filter than is normally seen and thats likely undesirable compared
with just putting the drive in a sealed bag with some desiccant.

And disks stay in PCs for years, exposed
to a range of humidity everyday.

Sure, but thats mostly with the system being warmer
than the environment when its turned on etc.

The hole is covered with a flter that
blocks anything larger than .1 micron

Says nothing useful about humid air getting inside if the
drive has been stored in a vacuum bag and that bag is
opened in a relatively high humidity environment, which
might well not even be in the safety deposit box situation
at all, but back at home when its going to be used again.

 

[Developwebsites]

In my personal opinion HDD is an option if we are talking about 1-3

years of storage time. Maybe 3-5 years with flash. If it is more,
forget about anything except MOD.

if I had stored my files on a JAZ, SparQ, or a ZIP 5yrs ago, I would not now
have the ability to retrieve them as those technologies and drives are dead.
think long tearm. would the MOD still exist 5years from now?

 

[bill]

if I had stored my files on a JAZ, SparQ, or a ZIP 5yrs ago, I would not now
have the ability to retrieve them as those technologies and drives are dead.
think long tearm. would the MOD still exist 5years from now?

Not true.
Ebay has these drives at very low prices.
All three are still available by stores; I can find several places
selling them with a simple Google search.

The technology may be old, and no longer recommended, but that doesn't
mean that the hardware is dead.