Starting Over or Retooling

  • Thread starter Thread starter Michael
  • Start date Start date
M

Michael

Love this Discussion Grp and don't know where I'd be w/o all of your help!
After about 10 years online, I've finally got the time to retool or revamp
or perhaps even restart from scratch my site at www.MissionePerTe.it, and I'd
like your expert advice.
Right now it is a slapped-together HTML w/an extensive FP2003 navigation
map, Shared Borders, a few IFrames, a DHTML (I think) interactive menu and
not much else.
Overall, I like the layout. However, I'm aware that FP is discontinued and
many features aren't apparently picked up elsewhere, that the site has
hundreds of coding errors per page and that any minuscule change in font or
formatting requires changing pages individually.
In your opinion, is it time to (1) START OVER or (2) RETOOL?
If you would START OVER, how would you do that?
CSS?
FP2003?
Expression Web?
Other?
Templates?
CMS (I think I have to change servers for that)
Other advice?
If you would RETOOL, how would you do it?
CSS? But how to get rid of all the old coding and plug in CSS boxes instead
of borders. Must be done manually on 240+ pages?
Any online free tutorials about how to change HTML sites to CSS sites?
Templates?
Is there a cleaner way to do that DHTML menu bar?
How can I get rid of 500+ errors!?
Perhaps I'm expecting too much of a response here but I'd love to hear what
several of you have to say on this.
Thanks!
Michael
 
I am in the process of doing exactly what you wish to do. My first
web site was based on FrontPage which I assumed would be the easiest
way to get started. Time was of the essence as I was beginning a new
business.

I soon discovered that FrontPage had so many quirks that I would have
been better learning CSS and HTML and using them directly. However, I
was too far into FrontPage to change.

I am now rewriting my site using HTML, CSS and a minuscule amount of
JavaScript. Although I am now having to learn new languages I am
convinced that this is the way to go. I will never again be dependent
on a third party program which may be discontinued at a future date
and that probably creates quirky code. After all, a knowledge of HTML
and CSS is required to use FrontPage effectively.

I suggest you switch to HTML and CSS. There are excellent on line
resources and a good (if not annoyingly long winded) starter book is
the reference by Head Start.
 
I think http://www.w3schools.com/ is a great resource for learning HTML and
CSS. I believe you need a basic understanding of these to help you design,
publish and maintain a web site. Finding a template that suits your needs
seems to be the easiest way to get started (or in your case, restart). With
a template you can use FrontPage, ExpressionWeb or NotePad to edit your pages.
 
I thinkhttp://www.w3schools.com/is a great resource for learning HTML and
CSS.  I believe you need a basic understanding of these to help you design,
publish and maintain a web site.  Finding a template that suits your needs
seems to be the easiest way to get started (or in your case, restart).  With
a template you can use FrontPage, ExpressionWeb or NotePad to edit your pages.
Click to expand...

I think you'll find that www.htmldog.com is a more reliable reference
than www.w3schools.com.
 
Curious you would say that. In what way do you define 'reliable' in this
context? Can you point us to specific instances of unreliability?

--
Murray



I thinkhttp://www.w3schools.com/is a great resource for learning HTML and
CSS. I believe you need a basic understanding of these to help you design,
publish and maintain a web site. Finding a template that suits your needs
seems to be the easiest way to get started (or in your case, restart).
With
a template you can use FrontPage, ExpressionWeb or NotePad to edit your
pages.
Click to expand...

I think you'll find that www.htmldog.com is a more reliable reference
than www.w3schools.com.
 
Thanks for the suggestions thusfar. I'm curious what Murray and other MVP's
would suggest at this point. Thanks! Michael
 
Comments inline below

--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (Expression)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp

Michael said:
Love this Discussion Grp and don't know where I'd be w/o all of your
help!
After about 10 years online, I've finally got the time to retool or
revamp
or perhaps even restart from scratch my site at www.MissionePerTe.it, and
I'd
like your expert advice.
Right now it is a slapped-together HTML w/an extensive FP2003 navigation
map, Shared Borders, a few IFrames, a DHTML (I think) interactive menu
and
not much else.
Overall, I like the layout. However, I'm aware that FP is discontinued
and
many features aren't apparently picked up elsewhere, that the site has
hundreds of coding errors per page and that any minuscule change in font
or
formatting requires changing pages individually.
In your opinion, is it time to (1) START OVER or (2) RETOOL?
Click to expand...

Start Over - but can be done 1 page at a time, or 1 step at a time on all
pages.
If you would START OVER, how would you do that?
CSS?
Click to expand...

Yes - definitely.
FP2003?
Click to expand...

No. FP2003 has difficulty with rendering some CSS.
Expression Web?
Yes


Other?
Templates?
Click to expand...

Template can help push start a design, but knowledge of HTML and CSS is
required to adjust them to suit *your* requirements.

CMS (I think I have to change servers for that)
Click to expand...

CMS is good for adding to a website, especially for other editors. You
still have the basic design features to deal with.

Other advice?
Click to expand...


Learn HTML and CSS, and also a server side scripting language that is
supported by your present (and future) hosts.
http://www.w3schools.com is a good place to start with all three.

If you would RETOOL, how would you do it?
CSS? But how to get rid of all the old coding and plug in CSS boxes
instead
of borders. Must be done manually on 240+ pages?
Click to expand...

CSS boxes? No. Boxes styled with CSS - Yes. A box can be a <div>, a
table cell or even a <p>aragraph</p>. There are ways to remove shared
borders from the entire website and replace them with a Dynamic Web
Template (DWTs are supported in FP2003, Expression Web and Dreamweaver) in
more or less one stage.

Any online free tutorials about how to change HTML sites to CSS sites?
Templates?
Is there a cleaner way to do that DHTML menu bar?
Click to expand...

Unordered lists - see
http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/navigation/auto_hide/index.htm for
one example of a dropdown horizontal menu. If you mean the FrontPage
navigation bar then again, an unordered list with CSS for styling.
How can I get rid of 500+ errors!?
Click to expand...

One at a time.
Fixing one may fix a dozen that follows it.
 
Thanks, Ronx, for your reply. I'm trying to put into practice many of the
things you recommended. Even tried to purachase Expression Web 2.0 today via
this link
http://social.expression.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/web/thread/9e2d6185-c6c5-4c19-ac68-5a639e60e212
but the Microsoft check out process isn't working for me and apparently for
others. Too bad.
Will keep plugging along with FrontPage at the moment but I'm avoiding using
the designer tab as most the errors seem to come from using that.
Any other advice from Ronx or other MVP's?
Michael
 
Curious you would say that.  In what way do you define 'reliable' in this
context?  Can you point us to specific instances of unreliability?

--
Murray




I think you'll find thatwww.htmldog.comis a more reliable reference
thanwww.w3schools.com.
Click to expand...

www.htmldog.com will make recommendations that do not include obsolete
tags etc (I don't mean depricated.). By this I mean that it makes
recommendations for good programming practices. Personally, I find
that the biggest problem in learning a new language is determining
which commands have been superceded and are only present for backward
compatability.

I didn't mean to imply that www.w3schools.com is not a good site. It
is an excellent reference. However, htmldog.com is my first choice.
 
Purchase Expression at Amazon...it'll probably be cheaper.
--
Tom [Pepper] Willett
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
---------------------------
: Thanks, Ronx, for your reply. I'm trying to put into practice many of the
: things you recommended. Even tried to purachase Expression Web 2.0 today
via
: this link
:
http://social.expression.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/web/thread/9e2d6185-c6c5-4c19-ac68-5a639e60e212
: but the Microsoft check out process isn't working for me and apparently
for
: others. Too bad.
: Will keep plugging along with FrontPage at the moment but I'm avoiding
using
: the designer tab as most the errors seem to come from using that.
: Any other advice from Ronx or other MVP's?
: Michael
 
www.htmldog.com will make recommendations that do not include obsolete
tags etc (I don't mean depricated.).
Click to expand...

There is no such thing as an obsolute tag that is not also deprecated.
Please give me an example of one of these.

Having looked at both sites, I don't see much difference, but I don't want
to split hairs here. It may be simply a matter of personal preference....

--
Murray



Curious you would say that. In what way do you define 'reliable' in this
context? Can you point us to specific instances of unreliability?

--
Murray




I think you'll find thatwww.htmldog.comis a more reliable reference
thanwww.w3schools.com.
Click to expand...

www.htmldog.com will make recommendations that do not include obsolete
tags etc (I don't mean depricated.). By this I mean that it makes
recommendations for good programming practices. Personally, I find
that the biggest problem in learning a new language is determining
which commands have been superceded and are only present for backward
compatability.

I didn't mean to imply that www.w3schools.com is not a good site. It
is an excellent reference. However, htmldog.com is my first choice.
 
It's only $50 thru tomorrow. Think I finally got one. Waiting for
confirmation.
I've been dabbling w/a template and css today.
Can you tell me:
1 - how to apply the new template and css sheets to my "old" site?
2 - how to put certain DIV elements (containers/boxes) on all or most pages
w/o using shared borders?
Thanks!
Michael
 
Also, will Expression Web allow me to work with my old Nav Structure? Are
those Nav Web bots from FP2003 valid code? I'd hate to lose the detailed Nav
Structure I was using.
Michael
 
Expression Web does not support FrontPage navigation view, but it will not
break *existing* FrontPage navigation components - you can't add to them.
The navigation bars produced by the components are generally not valid
HTML, though graphical link bars produced with a theme may be. It would be
better to bite the bullet and rebuild the navigation. Pages at
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/tests/navigation/
may give you some ideas for this.

For adding common components to the pages use a Dynamic Web Template - you
can think of this as a supersized shared border supported by both FP2003
and Expression Web.

Take a look at
http://any-expression.com/expression-web/ebooks/expression-web-dwt-ebook.htm
 
For further questions regarding Expression, you need to visit the Expression
newsgroups.
--
Tom [Pepper] Willett
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
---------------------------
: Also, will Expression Web allow me to work with my old Nav Structure? Are
: those Nav Web bots from FP2003 valid code? I'd hate to lose the detailed
Nav
: Structure I was using.
: Michael
 
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