Staining Around Solder Joins?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Pete
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Pete

Continuing from my "Is This Broken" post I have another question for
you folks :)

Quick recap: Was sold a so called "new" SFF barebones but on adding
the CPU & Memory found the board, CPU, case fans etc.. did not
function.

I'm still waiting for a retest of the CPU and for a power tester to
arrive but whilst waiting I took a closer visual inspection...

Anyway I noticed some staining or discolouration around the power
connector soldering.

I'd really appreciate it if anyone can take a look at this photo and
see if they think this type of discolouration is normal for a system
that is supposed to be new or at least newish:

http://www.infoweaver.net/kloss

Since I have had the system it has only run for a few very short
periods since the initial run failed.

Would this type of discolouration be typical of an overclocked system
or something else?

Any ideas appreciated.

Cheers

Pete
 
Pete said:
Continuing from my "Is This Broken" post I have another question for
you folks :)

Quick recap: Was sold a so called "new" SFF barebones but on adding
the CPU & Memory found the board, CPU, case fans etc.. did not
function.

I'm still waiting for a retest of the CPU and for a power tester to
arrive but whilst waiting I took a closer visual inspection...

Anyway I noticed some staining or discolouration around the power
connector soldering.

I'd really appreciate it if anyone can take a look at this photo and
see if they think this type of discolouration is normal for a system
that is supposed to be new or at least newish:

http://www.infoweaver.net/kloss

Since I have had the system it has only run for a few very short
periods since the initial run failed.

Would this type of discolouration be typical of an overclocked system
or something else?

Any ideas appreciated.

Cheers

Pete
Click to expand...

Does not look like "staining". Looks like "flux". Suggests that the
connector in question was soldered in manually rather than by an
automatic process but nothing more than that. I've still got equipment
that I designed and built in the early 1970s that has similar flux
around the PC solder joints and which work fine.

It is rather common for large items like connectors to be added manually
to a PCB after the bulk of the tiny critical components have been placed
and soldered by automatic equipment. Normally I'd expect a first-rate
manufacturer to adequately clean up after the manual soldering but not
all do.
 
Continuing from my "Is This Broken" post I have another question for
you folks :)

Quick recap: Was sold a so called "new" SFF barebones but on adding
the CPU & Memory found the board, CPU, case fans etc.. did not
function.

I'm still waiting for a retest of the CPU and for a power tester to
arrive but whilst waiting I took a closer visual inspection...

Anyway I noticed some staining or discolouration around the power
connector soldering.

I'd really appreciate it if anyone can take a look at this photo and
see if they think this type of discolouration is normal for a system
that is supposed to be new or at least newish:

http://www.infoweaver.net/kloss

Since I have had the system it has only run for a few very short
periods since the initial run failed.

Would this type of discolouration be typical of an overclocked system
or something else?

Any ideas appreciated.

Cheers

Pete
Click to expand...

It's hard to tell. Is it actual discolouration or is it some crusty
yellow stuff?

If it's crusty yellow stuff, it's the rosin core or "flux" from the
solder. I personally clean that stuff off on my own electronics
projects but they usually don't bother on mass produced electronic
items.

Overclocking would not normally cause any discolouration. If the item
outright fries, you might get a black sooty mark there, that's a bit
brownish, but I can't tell from the level of detail if this is the
photo. If it fried, the board would indeed be questionable.

Of course, if you did buy this system NEW, then why do you not simply
return it to the store? Surely the system being unstable is grounds
enough for them to at least look it over under warranty and fix the
problem.
 
Pete said:
Anyway I noticed some staining or discolouration around the power
connector soldering.

I'd really appreciate it if anyone can take a look at this photo and
see if they think this type of discolouration is normal for a system
that is supposed to be new or at least newish:

http://www.infoweaver.net/kloss
Click to expand...

Looks like poorly cleaned up solder flux. Poor soldering in areas,
as well. Is it sticky? Try cleaning it.
 
It's hard to tell. Is it actual discolouration or is it some crusty
yellow stuff?

If it's crusty yellow stuff, it's the rosin core or "flux" from the
solder. I personally clean that stuff off on my own electronics
projects but they usually don't bother on mass produced electronic
items.
Click to expand...

It's a bit like translucent toffee (brownish \ amber) coloured.

It may well be flux but they are the only joints to look like that.
There are other larger components with solder on that side of the
board that are perfect and silvered.
Of course, if you did buy this system NEW, then why do you not simply
return it to the store? Surely the system being unstable is grounds
enough for them to at least look it over under warranty and fix the
problem.
Click to expand...

That's the problem :(

I spoke to the seller and he maintained it was new and he had tested
it before sending it out. (The fact he tested a "New" barebones is a
bit odd anyway..)

However he did let slip in an e.mail after the sale that he had
flashed the bios..

He also has not sent all the parts including the CD (which is highly
specialised due to the proprietry nature of the PC) although he did
advertise them as part of the sale.. Basically it was an advertised
private sale and I now need to take the guy to court..

I'm just making sure all ends are tied up and I haven't overlooked
anything.

Damn nightmare :(

Cheers.

Pete
 
It's a bit like translucent toffee (brownish \ amber) coloured.

It may well be flux but they are the only joints to look like that.
There are other larger components with solder on that side of the
board that are perfect and silvered.
Click to expand...

Other joints, BUT, are there other through-hole parts? I
suspect these connectors are the only two parts mounted on
the back of the board but using through-hole mounting.

If that's the case it might seem reasonable that they were
added in a separate step, perhaps their manufacturing method
didn't allow for this kind of automated mounting.

Even so, for products the user can see it's usually
considered unsightly for any but the most transparent flux
to remain. It is unusual to see it on a motherboard but
equally unusual to see the connectors on the back like that.

IF the board were working ok then I'd suggest getting a
cotton swab and some alcohol and cleaning it off... if it
really matters for esthetic reasons.

If there had been some kind of loose connector problem that
had discolored or melted a connector, that would be a
potential reason why a connector might be replaced later,
yet it seems unlikely that both of the connectors would have
this problem, that if one had been unusable then only that
one would be replaced.


That's the problem :(

I spoke to the seller and he maintained it was new and he had tested
it before sending it out. (The fact he tested a "New" barebones is a
bit odd anyway..)
Click to expand...

Regardless of whether he tested it before sending it, the
product has to arrive working. It would be far too easy to
just test a board then damage it while disassembling,
packing, or shipping it... testing beforehand only assures
it was working at that one moment in time, NOT that it
definitely worked when it arrived in your hands. By the
same token, in theory it's possible you damaged it while
unpacking or building which could be where the manufacturers
(or OEM) warranty comes into play but the initial idea that
the seller has no obligation because they tested it, is
incorrect.

However he did let slip in an e.mail after the sale that he had
flashed the bios..
Click to expand...

I wouldn't necessarily take that as an indication of
anything, it can be a good service or it can be putting a
bios on the board that has unresolved bugs, or it can just
make no difference at all, merely saving you from having to
do it later IF you would've ever needed to. You might ask
him why the bios was flashed but a lot of conversation might
make him feel you're willing to converse rather than taking
a short and direct path by insisting that it be replaced.
He also has not sent all the parts including the CD (which is highly
specialised due to the proprietry nature of the PC) although he did
advertise them as part of the sale.. Basically it was an advertised
private sale and I now need to take the guy to court..

I'm just making sure all ends are tied up and I haven't overlooked
anything.
Click to expand...


If it is new, why wouldn't he have some recourse to get it
replaced? You might tell him that it will be easier on
everyone if he just takes the board back and either sends a
working replacement or gives a refund.

However, I dont' know if the board really is bad, there are
a lot of variables and this is one of the reasons why it's
best not to buy expensive parts from individuals without any
idea of their reputation, particularly what steps they take
to resolve problems, not whether anyone has reported any.
 
Pete said:
Continuing from my "Is This Broken" post I have another question for
you folks :)

Quick recap: Was sold a so called "new" SFF barebones but on adding
the CPU & Memory found the board, CPU, case fans etc.. did not
function.

I'm still waiting for a retest of the CPU and for a power tester to
arrive but whilst waiting I took a closer visual inspection...

Anyway I noticed some staining or discolouration around the power
connector soldering.

I'd really appreciate it if anyone can take a look at this photo and
see if they think this type of discolouration is normal for a system
that is supposed to be new or at least newish:

http://www.infoweaver.net/kloss

Since I have had the system it has only run for a few very short
periods since the initial run failed.

Would this type of discolouration be typical of an overclocked system
or something else?

Any ideas appreciated.

Cheers

Pete
Click to expand...

Poor quality manufacturing. The factory did not wash the resin off
the boards, after hand soldering the thru-hole components. You can
try alcohol, if you want to remove it. You can find commercial
cleaners here, as examples of what the factory could have used.

http://www.chemtronics.com/products/americas/e/flux_removers.asp

Paul
 
Other joints, BUT, are there other through-hole parts? I
suspect these connectors are the only two parts mounted on
the back of the board but using through-hole mounting.
Click to expand...

From various responses it does sound as if these marks are caused by
hand soldering and probably by the manufacturer.
I wouldn't necessarily take that as an indication of
anything, it can be a good service or it can be putting a
bios on the board that has unresolved bugs, or it can just
make no difference at all, merely saving you from having to
do it later IF you would've ever needed to. You might ask
him why the bios was flashed but a lot of conversation might
make him feel you're willing to converse rather than taking
a short and direct path by insisting that it be replaced.
Click to expand...

When I told him about the problem he just went silent and spoke mostly
in monosylabics.. YES, NO, OK. so it was a hard conversation except
for him repeating it worked fine there.. IHe never even bothered to
offer advice and when I said that if we couldn't sort it out the only
recourse I would have was court he just said OK.
If it is new, why wouldn't he have some recourse to get it
replaced? You might tell him that it will be easier on
everyone if he just takes the board back and either sends a
working replacement or gives a refund.
Click to expand...

My picture of the seller is that he is a 'chancer' who is unreliable.
I have spoken to other people who have bought from him (also 'New'
items) and a numbr of them have either not got the item or had to
wait. Some had to stop their cheques.

I think he is basically taking the "P***" so it's a court case then :(
However, I dont' know if the board really is bad, there are
a lot of variables and this is one of the reasons why it's
best not to buy expensive parts from individuals without any
idea of their reputation, particularly what steps they take
to resolve problems, not whether anyone has reported any.
Click to expand...

I know but in general there are usually no problems as 'most' people
are somewhat honest. Most frauds can be spotted but there is no way to
spot an unrelliable chancer, employee or company without some form of
extensive feedback.

Anyway thank you to all for your responses they have been really
helpful.

Cheers

Pete
 
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