Stack Size

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ben R. Bolton
  • Start date Start date
B

Ben R. Bolton

The documentation indicates that the threads "default stack size" is 1MB.
The work "default" implies that it can be changed.

Is it possible to change the StackSize in .NET? If so how?

Is it possible to determine the amount of memory used in the current stack?

Any assistance would be appreciated.

Ben
 
Ben,

Unfortunately no. The documentation you were reading was for the
creation of new threads in the system, which is handled by the Thread class.
The CreateThread API function allows you to set the stack size and you can
call it from .NET. However, I don't know if that is a good idea, since I am
not sure how the runtime will perceive that thread.

Hope this helps.
 
Thanks Nicholas,

I hadassumed it couldn't be changed since I could find no reference as to
how to change it. But wanted to ask anyway.

Is it possible to determine how much of the 1MB of memory is currently being
used (is on the stack)?

Ben



Nicholas Paldino said:
Ben,

Unfortunately no. The documentation you were reading was for the
creation of new threads in the system, which is handled by the Thread class.
The CreateThread API function allows you to set the stack size and you can
call it from .NET. However, I don't know if that is a good idea, since I am
not sure how the runtime will perceive that thread.

Hope this helps.


--
- Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]
- nick(dot)paldino=at=exisconsulting<dot>com

Ben R. Bolton said:
The documentation indicates that the threads "default stack size" is 1MB.
The work "default" implies that it can be changed.

Is it possible to change the StackSize in .NET? If so how?

Is it possible to determine the amount of memory used in the current stack?

Any assistance would be appreciated.

Ben
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Hi Ben,

It seems that there is no easy way to get the current used stack size of
the thread.
May be you can refer to the NtQueryInformationThread DDK function to get
the information of specified thread.
Because it is a DDK function, you must install the DDK first.

Hope this helps,

Best regards,
Jeffrey Tan
Microsoft Online Partner Support
Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
This posting is provided "as is" with no warranties and confers no rights.

--------------------
| Reply-To: "Ben R. Bolton" <[email protected]>
| From: "Ben R. Bolton" <[email protected]>
| References: <#[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
| Subject: Re: Stack Size
| Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:48:13 -0700
| Lines: 51
| X-Priority: 3
| X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
| X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
| X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
| Message-ID: <#[email protected]>
| Newsgroups: microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp
| NNTP-Posting-Host: 12-236-76-193.client.attbi.com 12.236.76.193
| Path: cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP08.phx.gbl!tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl
| Xref: cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp:189651
| X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp
|
| Thanks Nicholas,
|
| I hadassumed it couldn't be changed since I could find no reference as to
| how to change it. But wanted to ask anyway.
|
| Is it possible to determine how much of the 1MB of memory is currently
being
| used (is on the stack)?
|
| Ben
|
|
|
| "Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <[email protected]>
wrote
| in message | > Ben,
| >
| > Unfortunately no. The documentation you were reading was for the
| > creation of new threads in the system, which is handled by the Thread
| class.
| > The CreateThread API function allows you to set the stack size and you
can
| > call it from .NET. However, I don't know if that is a good idea, since
I
| am
| > not sure how the runtime will perceive that thread.
| >
| > Hope this helps.
| >
| >
| > --
| > - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]
| > - nick(dot)paldino=at=exisconsulting<dot>com
| >
| > | > > The documentation indicates that the threads "default stack size" is
| 1MB.
| > > The work "default" implies that it can be changed.
| > >
| > > Is it possible to change the StackSize in .NET? If so how?
| > >
| > > Is it possible to determine the amount of memory used in the current
| > stack?
| > >
| > > Any assistance would be appreciated.
| > >
| > > Ben
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
|
|
|
 
Mattias Sjögren said:
Ben,
Editbin.exe /stack
should work, I think.
Click to expand...

That works.

Test:

class App {
private static long _Depth = 0;

private static void GoDeep() {
if ((++_Depth % 10000) == 0) System.Console.WriteLine("Depth is " +
_Depth.ToString());
GoDeep();
return;
}

public static void Main() {
try {
GoDeep();
} finally {
}
return;
}
}




editbin /stack:100000,1000 q.exe
Depth is 10000
Depth is 20000

Unhandled Exception: StackOverflowException.

editbin /stack:1000000,1000 q.exe
Depth is 10000
Depth is 20000
Depth is 30000
Depth is 40000
Depth is 50000
Depth is 60000
Depth is 70000
Depth is 80000

Unhandled Exception: StackOverflowException.


-- Alan
 
Hi Alan,

Yes, that should work, I have found Editbin may be useful for change the
stack size, but I have not had time to test for it.
Thanks for you test code.

Best regards,
Jeffrey Tan
Microsoft Online Partner Support
Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
This posting is provided "as is" with no warranties and confers no rights.

--------------------
| Reply-To: "Alan Pretre" <no@spam>
| From: "Alan Pretre" <no@spam>
| References: <#[email protected]>
<#[email protected]>
| Subject: Re: Stack Size
| Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:56:23 -0500
| Lines: 55
| X-Priority: 3
| X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
| X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
| X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
| Message-ID: <#[email protected]>
| Newsgroups: microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp
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| Xref: cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp:190307
| X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp
|
| | > Ben,
| > >Is it possible to change the StackSize in .NET? If so how?
| > Editbin.exe /stack
| > should work, I think.
|
| That works.
|
| Test:
|
| class App {
| private static long _Depth = 0;
|
| private static void GoDeep() {
| if ((++_Depth % 10000) == 0) System.Console.WriteLine("Depth is " +
| _Depth.ToString());
| GoDeep();
| return;
| }
|
| public static void Main() {
| try {
| GoDeep();
| } finally {
| }
| return;
| }
| }
|
|
|
|
| editbin /stack:100000,1000 q.exe
| Depth is 10000
| Depth is 20000
|
| Unhandled Exception: StackOverflowException.
|
| editbin /stack:1000000,1000 q.exe
| Depth is 10000
| Depth is 20000
| Depth is 30000
| Depth is 40000
| Depth is 50000
| Depth is 60000
| Depth is 70000
| Depth is 80000
|
| Unhandled Exception: StackOverflowException.
|
|
| -- Alan
|
|
|
 
Thanks Mattias,

I had hoped there was a compiler option, but at least there is a way.

Ben
 
If the answer is not too arcane can someone explain to me why the stack size
had to be set at compile/load time. Why did the c# designers not grow it
as required in virtual memory, which (so far as I know) is done by most
other language implementations, and let an "out of memory" exception occur?

In an object oriented language where most objects are allocated on the heap,
perhaps it is not so important. Nevertheless, some problems are most easily
coded as a recursive function and, if even a few value types are used, a 1MB
stack does not seem like much.

E.G. (not too realistic, maybe, given that a double would not hold the
answer anyway):
public static double fact(double x)

{

if (x <= 0)

return 1;

return x *fact(x-1);

}

overflows when fact(35000) is called. ("An unhandled exception of type
'System.StackOverflowException' occurred in Foo.exe"). So less than 35000
recursive calls can occur in a function that uses type double as a
parameter?

Ben R. Bolton said:
Thanks Mattias,

I had hoped there was a compiler option, but at least there is a way.

Ben
Click to expand...
 
Hi Fred,

The stack is set to an arbitrarily small value when the program is first
loaded. The stack then grows on demand to meet the needs of the thread.
This is implemented by placing a page with PAGE_GUARD access at the end of
the current stack. When your code causes the stack pointer to point to an
address on this page, an exception occurs. The system will commit your
desired page. The 1M was the default maximum stack size that can be commit.

To work around the recursive problem, you can handle the over flow
exception, commit more page yourself, for more details please refer to
"Trapping the Exception with __try and __except (Full Solution)" in the
link below:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;315937

Hope this helps,
Best regards,
Jeffrey Tan
Microsoft Online Partner Support
Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
This posting is provided "as is" with no warranties and confers no rights.

--------------------
| From: "Fred Mellender" <[email protected]>
| Newsgroups: microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp
| References: <#[email protected]>
<#[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
| Subject: Re: Stack Size
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| X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp
|
| If the answer is not too arcane can someone explain to me why the stack
size
| had to be set at compile/load time. Why did the c# designers not grow it
| as required in virtual memory, which (so far as I know) is done by most
| other language implementations, and let an "out of memory" exception
occur?
|
| In an object oriented language where most objects are allocated on the
heap,
| perhaps it is not so important. Nevertheless, some problems are most
easily
| coded as a recursive function and, if even a few value types are used, a
1MB
| stack does not seem like much.
|
| E.G. (not too realistic, maybe, given that a double would not hold the
| answer anyway):
| public static double fact(double x)
|
| {
|
| if (x <= 0)
|
| return 1;
|
| return x *fact(x-1);
|
| }
|
| overflows when fact(35000) is called. ("An unhandled exception of type
| 'System.StackOverflowException' occurred in Foo.exe"). So less than 35000
| recursive calls can occur in a function that uses type double as a
| parameter?
|
| | > Thanks Mattias,
| >
| > I had hoped there was a compiler option, but at least there is a way.
| >
| > Ben
| >
| >
| > | > > Ben,
| > >
| > > >Is it possible to change the StackSize in .NET? If so how?
| > >
| > > Editbin.exe /stack
| > >
| > > should work, I think.
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > > Mattias
| > >
| > > --
| > > Mattias Sjögren [MVP] mattias @ mvps.org
| > > http://www.msjogren.net/dotnet/
| > > Please reply only to the newsgroup.
| >
| >
|
|
|
 
Thanks for the information and it is good to know there is a work-around.

However, I see that the solution requires writing in C++ and use of the
"_asm" keyword. Perhaps there is no way for C# to accomplish the same thing
in a "managed" way? I'm sure the C# designers have plenty on their plates
already, but it would be nice to see the stack growth handled automatically,
or perhaps through a more "C# pure" exception handler.

But the information you provided is useful to me. I am working on a
Prolog-like system where recursion is often a substitute for loops.
 
Jeffrey Tan said:
To work around the recursive problem, you can handle the over flow
exception, commit more page yourself, for more details please refer to
"Trapping the Exception with __try and __except (Full Solution)" in the
link below:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;315937
Click to expand...


Is all that PAGE_GUARD stuff necessary in C#? I don't see the same behavior
with this example as the article shows:

class App {
private static long _Depth = 0;

private static void GoDeep() {
if ((++_Depth % 10000) == 0) System.Console.WriteLine("Depth is " +
_Depth.ToString());
GoDeep();
return;
}

public static void Main() {
for (int i = 0; i < 3; i++) {
try {
_Depth = 0;
System.Console.WriteLine();
GoDeep();
} catch (System.Exception Ex) {
System.Console.WriteLine(Ex.ToString());
}
}
return;
}
}



Depth is 10000
Depth is 20000
Depth is 30000
Depth is 40000
Depth is 50000
Depth is 60000
Depth is 70000
Depth is 80000
System.StackOverflowException: Exception of type
System.StackOverflowException was thrown.

Depth is 10000
Depth is 20000
Depth is 30000
Depth is 40000
Depth is 50000
Depth is 60000
Depth is 70000
Depth is 80000
System.StackOverflowException: Exception of type
System.StackOverflowException was thrown.

Depth is 10000
Depth is 20000
Depth is 30000
Depth is 40000
Depth is 50000
Depth is 60000
Depth is 70000
Depth is 80000
System.StackOverflowException: Exception of type
System.StackOverflowException was thrown.

-- Alan
 
Hi Ben,

Yes, it seems that the C# compiler does not have the option for change the
stack size.
But forturnately, we can change it with EditBin.exe
If you feel this uncomfortable, you can provide some suggestion to
Microsoft at this link:
http://register.microsoft.com/mswish/suggestion.asp
or you can mail to (e-mail address removed)

Thanks for your understanding and information.

Best regards,
Jeffrey Tan
Microsoft Online Partner Support
Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
This posting is provided "as is" with no warranties and confers no rights.

--------------------
| Reply-To: "Ben R. Bolton" <[email protected]>
| From: "Ben R. Bolton" <[email protected]>
| References: <#[email protected]>
<#[email protected]>
| Subject: Re: Stack Size
| Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:46:20 -0700
| Lines: 27
| X-Priority: 3
| X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
| X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
| X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
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| Path: cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP08.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl
| Xref: cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp:190668
| X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp
|
| Thanks Mattias,
|
| I had hoped there was a compiler option, but at least there is a way.
|
| Ben
|
|
| | > Ben,
| >
| > >Is it possible to change the StackSize in .NET? If so how?
| >
| > Editbin.exe /stack
| >
| > should work, I think.
| >
| >
| >
| > Mattias
| >
| > --
| > Mattias Sjögren [MVP] mattias @ mvps.org
| > http://www.msjogren.net/dotnet/
| > Please reply only to the newsgroup.
|
|
|
 
Hi Fred,

I think that because C# on top of CLR is completely 'managed' - ie. memory
and stack allocations are handled under the cover.
C#/managed are compiled to IL - code is run in a virtual machine
environment.

There is also a set of API to allow finer control over memory allocation
for hosts in the coming version of .Net Framework.

Best regards,
Jeffrey Tan
Microsoft Online Partner Support
Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
This posting is provided "as is" with no warranties and confers no rights.

--------------------
| From: "Fred Mellender" <[email protected]>
| Newsgroups: microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp
| References: <#[email protected]>
<#[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
| Subject: Re: Stack Size
| Lines: 145
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| Xref: cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp:190916
| X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp
|
| Thanks for the information and it is good to know there is a work-around.
|
| However, I see that the solution requires writing in C++ and use of the
| "_asm" keyword. Perhaps there is no way for C# to accomplish the same
thing
| in a "managed" way? I'm sure the C# designers have plenty on their plates
| already, but it would be nice to see the stack growth handled
automatically,
| or perhaps through a more "C# pure" exception handler.
|
| But the information you provided is useful to me. I am working on a
| Prolog-like system where recursion is often a substitute for loops.
|
|
| | >
| > Hi Fred,
| >
| > The stack is set to an arbitrarily small value when the program is first
| > loaded. The stack then grows on demand to meet the needs of the thread.
| > This is implemented by placing a page with PAGE_GUARD access at the end
of
| > the current stack. When your code causes the stack pointer to point to
an
| > address on this page, an exception occurs. The system will commit your
| > desired page. The 1M was the default maximum stack size that can be
| commit.
| >
| > To work around the recursive problem, you can handle the over flow
| > exception, commit more page yourself, for more details please refer to
| > "Trapping the Exception with __try and __except (Full Solution)" in the
| > link below:
| > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;315937
| >
| > Hope this helps,
| > Best regards,
| > Jeffrey Tan
| > Microsoft Online Partner Support
| > Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
| > This posting is provided "as is" with no warranties and confers no
rights.
| >
| > --------------------
| > | From: "Fred Mellender" <[email protected]>
| > | Newsgroups: microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp
| > | References: <#[email protected]>
| > <#[email protected]>
| > <[email protected]>
| > | Subject: Re: Stack Size
| > | Lines: 60
| > | X-Priority: 3
| > | X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
| > | X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
| > | X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
| > | Message-ID: <[email protected]>
| > | X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
| > | X-Trace:
| >
|
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| >
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| > | NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:07:41 GMT
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| >
|
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| >
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| >
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| > iernet.net!news01.roc.ny.POSTED!not-for-mail
| > | Xref: cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl
| microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp:190709
| > | X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp
| > |
| > | If the answer is not too arcane can someone explain to me why the
stack
| > size
| > | had to be set at compile/load time. Why did the c# designers not
grow
| it
| > | as required in virtual memory, which (so far as I know) is done by
most
| > | other language implementations, and let an "out of memory" exception
| > occur?
| > |
| > | In an object oriented language where most objects are allocated on the
| > heap,
| > | perhaps it is not so important. Nevertheless, some problems are most
| > easily
| > | coded as a recursive function and, if even a few value types are
used, a
| > 1MB
| > | stack does not seem like much.
| > |
| > | E.G. (not too realistic, maybe, given that a double would not hold the
| > | answer anyway):
| > | public static double fact(double x)
| > |
| > | {
| > |
| > | if (x <= 0)
| > |
| > | return 1;
| > |
| > | return x *fact(x-1);
| > |
| > | }
| > |
| > | overflows when fact(35000) is called. ("An unhandled exception of
type
| > | 'System.StackOverflowException' occurred in Foo.exe"). So less than
| 35000
| > | recursive calls can occur in a function that uses type double as a
| > | parameter?
| > |
| > | | > | > Thanks Mattias,
| > | >
| > | > I had hoped there was a compiler option, but at least there is a
way.
| > | >
| > | > Ben
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > | > | > > Ben,
| > | > >
| > | > > >Is it possible to change the StackSize in .NET? If so how?
| > | > >
| > | > > Editbin.exe /stack
| > | > >
| > | > > should work, I think.
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > > Mattias
| > | > >
| > | > > --
| > | > > Mattias Sjögren [MVP] mattias @ mvps.org
| > | > > http://www.msjogren.net/dotnet/
| > | > > Please reply only to the newsgroup.
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| > |
| >
|
|
|
 
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