SP3 Broke System Restore?

  • Thread starter Thread starter BillW50
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BillW50

I haven't heard anybody mention this before about SP3 and System
Restore. As I have a much of laptops with different OEM XP installs. And
I like to buy inexpensive used laptops with lots of options, like this
Gateway M465. And I like the ones manufactured in 2006. As they can
generally run XP, Vista, or Windows 7 very well.

Anyway, so once I buy them, one of the first jobs is to reformat and
reinstall with the manufacture's recovery disc. Most from this era has
XP SP2. And I install SP3 from Microsoft's downloadable SP3 install
file. This is the only thing in common with these computers that I can
see.

And I noticed on this one and an Alienware that I also use (mainly for
games) that System Restore isn't working. It just won't run. And under
System properties and System Restore tab won't open either. I haven't
used System Restore in years, but it has saved me time in the past.
Although backups (and older clones) are still better.

So I installed sr.inf. And it wanted a SP3 CD and was looking for files
like from memory:

sr.sys
srclient.dll
filelist.xml

And a couple of other ones. But they were already in the Windows folder
like system32, system32/drivers, and system32/restore. And they had a
2008 file date. Which tells me they were part of SP3 System Restore and
were already there.

But after going through this and telling inf to look were they were
already, System Restore seems to work just fine. I first noticed this on
the Alienware machine, but then noticed this one was exactly the same.
That is a pretty strange coincidence if you ask me. Has there been any
talk about this at all?
 
On 9/8/11 7:30 AM, BillW50 wrote:

Anyway, so once I buy them, one of the first jobs is to reformat and
reinstall with the manufacture's recovery disc. Most from this era has
XP SP2. And I install SP3 from Microsoft's downloadable SP3 install
file. This is the only thing in common with these computers that I can
see.
Click to expand...

Installing from the downloadable file is my 2nd choice now. In the
computer I talked about in Micky's thread, I reinstalled the OS 3 or 4
times before contacting MS. I noticed that when I installed SP3, on
that computer, via MS Updates, there was one more update installed when
automatic updates were installed. IE, the downloadable file installed
102 updates, the automatic method installed 103 updates.

It got me to wondering if the downloadable file, at time, could be
slightly out of date/behind in having the current files included.
And I noticed on this one and an Alienware that I also use (mainly for
games) that System Restore isn't working. It just won't run. And under
System properties and System Restore tab won't open either. I haven't
used System Restore in years, but it has saved me time in the past.
Although backups (and older clones) are still better.
Click to expand...

There is a way to disable SR, but I don't remember how it's done. I
don't disable it, and use it extensively when reinstalling the OS and
software. It came in handy when tracking down the problem with the
computer mentioned above.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 6.0.2
Thunderbird 6.0.2
LibreOffice 3.3.3
 
I haven't heard anybody mention this before about SP3 and System
Restore ... ....
....
... Has there been any talk about this at all?
Click to expand...

Not that I can see. Suggests that the problem is not very widespread.
 
BillW50 said:
I haven't heard anybody mention this before about SP3 and System
Restore. As I have a much of laptops with different OEM XP installs. And
I like to buy inexpensive used laptops with lots of options, like this
Gateway M465. And I like the ones manufactured in 2006. As they can
generally run XP, Vista, or Windows 7 very well.

Anyway, so once I buy them, one of the first jobs is to reformat and
reinstall with the manufacture's recovery disc. Most from this era has
XP SP2. And I install SP3 from Microsoft's downloadable SP3 install
file. This is the only thing in common with these computers that I can
see.

And I noticed on this one and an Alienware that I also use (mainly for
games) that System Restore isn't working. It just won't run. And under
System properties and System Restore tab won't open either. I haven't
used System Restore in years, but it has saved me time in the past.
Although backups (and older clones) are still better.

So I installed sr.inf. And it wanted a SP3 CD and was looking for files
like from memory:

sr.sys
srclient.dll
filelist.xml

And a couple of other ones. But they were already in the Windows folder
like system32, system32/drivers, and system32/restore. And they had a
2008 file date. Which tells me they were part of SP3 System Restore and
were already there.

But after going through this and telling inf to look were they were
already, System Restore seems to work just fine. I first noticed this on
the Alienware machine, but then noticed this one was exactly the same.
That is a pretty strange coincidence if you ask me. Has there been any
talk about this at all?
Click to expand...

Isn't there a Service associated with System Restore ? Perhaps the
state of that Service had something to do with it. It could be that
the .inf starts the Service again.

These are the bookmarks I've got...

http://bertk.mvps.org/html/srfail.html

http://bertk.mvps.org/html/filesfolders.html

You could also check C:\Windows\svcpack.log , as that is claimed to be
the log for the SP3 install.

Paul
 
BillW50 said:
I haven't heard anybody mention this before about SP3 and System
Restore. As I have a much of laptops with different OEM XP installs. And
I like to buy inexpensive used laptops with lots of options, like this
Gateway M465. And I like the ones manufactured in 2006. As they can
generally run XP, Vista, or Windows 7 very well.

Anyway, so once I buy them, one of the first jobs is to reformat and
reinstall with the manufacture's recovery disc. Most from this era has
XP SP2. And I install SP3 from Microsoft's downloadable SP3 install
file. This is the only thing in common with these computers that I can
see.

And I noticed on this one and an Alienware that I also use (mainly for
games) that System Restore isn't working. It just won't run. And under
System properties and System Restore tab won't open either. I haven't
used System Restore in years, but it has saved me time in the past.
Although backups (and older clones) are still better.

So I installed sr.inf. And it wanted a SP3 CD and was looking for files
like from memory:

sr.sys
srclient.dll
filelist.xml

And a couple of other ones. But they were already in the Windows folder
like system32, system32/drivers, and system32/restore. And they had a
2008 file date. Which tells me they were part of SP3 System Restore and
were already there.

But after going through this and telling inf to look were they were
already, System Restore seems to work just fine. I first noticed this on
the Alienware machine, but then noticed this one was exactly the same.
That is a pretty strange coincidence if you ask me. Has there been any
talk about this at all?
Click to expand...

Were these *clean* installs of Windows XP SP-2 followed by the SP-3
update? Or did you also install any 3rd party software? There are some
utilities that will disable SR because it interferes with their purpose,
like a background always-running file history backup program (i.e., file
versioning). I can't recall the programs but I have seen some that need
SR restore since they are providing an encompassing function for which
SR would interfere with them supplanting SR.

If you run services.msc, is the System Restore Service started? Is it
configured for automatic startup? Check the Dependencies tab under the
properties for the SR service. It will list the RPC service. Is that
service (on which the SR service depends) also started and also
configured for automatic startup? If the other service(s) aren't
started upon which a service depends then the service won't start.

You didn't mention if these hosts are in a corporate network or if they
are standalone hosts (maybe networked together in a workgroup). If
these are workstations in a domain on a corporate network, it's possible
that group policies will disable SR, especially if the company is
pushing alternative host backup methods.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...p-policy/bf10cf68-7da3-4222-a7ce-1ae827bf1845

While you like the SR feature to recover a host to somewhat its prior
state (it's not exactly the prior state), the company might not like you
using it because it could recover malware. You get infected, you get
rid of the malware, but then you backup (from backups which includes SR)
to restore the malware. Since the company wants you using their image
prepped for the software they authorized for use on their computers
which is their property and is more safe and known than doing a SR point
recovery, they may not want you using SR. Instead they want to restore
using their image.

Since you mention a host is mostly used for games, it is also possible
that you defined a hardware profile that disables some services (to make
the game play better by not consuming memory and CPU resources for
services that you don't need when running the game). When you boot, and
if you have multiple hardware platforms defined, you select one that
disables most services to run the game (i.e., you pick the gaming
profile). It's also possible the default profile had the service
disabled (it won't start when you select the profile on startup;
however, if you only have one profile then you don't get prompted to
pick one). I've seen users that intended to define a gaming profile but
ended up modifying their default and only profile.

Right-click on My Computer and select Properties, or open the System
applet in Control Panel. Go to the Hardware tab. Click on "Hardware
Profiles". Is more than one listed? Then go look at the services (run
"services.msc"). Under the System Restore Service definition, look
under its Log On tab. The hardware profile(s) are listed there (which
means this service is included in that profile whether it is to be
enabled to disabled). Under each hardware profile, is the SR service
set to enabled or disabled?

Did you clean out the Event Viewer logs (after exiting all
applications), reboot the computer, and check the Event Viewer for
errors regarding the startup of the SR service?

Are you using any state enforcement programs? That is, no matter what
changes you make to the host, upon reboot a prior known state is
restored to the host. I'm talking about products like Returnil or
Microsoft's SteadyState. You might get SR working but after a reboot
it'll be back to the disabled state.
 
In
Ken said:
On 9/8/11 7:30 AM, BillW50 wrote:



Installing from the downloadable file is my 2nd choice now. In the
computer I talked about in Micky's thread, I reinstalled the OS 3 or 4
times before contacting MS. I noticed that when I installed SP3, on
that computer, via MS Updates, there was one more update installed
when automatic updates were installed. IE, the downloadable file
installed 102 updates, the automatic method installed 103 updates.

It got me to wondering if the downloadable file, at time, could be
slightly out of date/behind in having the current files included.
Click to expand...

I always had the impression that Microsoft and others sometimes modifies
updates, Service Packs, security updates, etc. as bugs are found with
them. That is why some people wait when a new update comes out and wait
until the most serious bugs are found and corrected.
There is a way to disable SR, but I don't remember how it's done. I
don't disable it, and use it extensively when reinstalling the OS and
software. It came in handy when tracking down the problem with the
computer mentioned above.
Click to expand...

The way I know how to disable SR is through System Properties and the SR
tab.
 
In
Paul said:
Isn't there a Service associated with System Restore ? Perhaps the
state of that Service had something to do with it. It could be that
the .inf starts the Service again.

These are the bookmarks I've got...

http://bertk.mvps.org/html/srfail.html

http://bertk.mvps.org/html/filesfolders.html

You could also check C:\Windows\svcpack.log , as that is claimed to be
the log for the SP3 install.

Paul
Click to expand...

My svcpack.log on this machine is dated 1/6/2010. That is about when I
got this machine I believe and installed SP3. And I couldn't find
anything there. But here below is probably why.

I archived my system for many years and this year I gave up on backups
and switched to cloning drives instead. And I just this morning checked
a few earlier versions of clones for this machine and System Restore is
working fine on them. So it is something just recently that caused
System Restore to fail to run. Not only this laptop, but my Alienware
laptop as well. Both have the OEM version of XP installed from the
different manufactures themselves.

There have been a few games installed since System Restore has been
broken from Microsoft and Electronic Arts. But they shouldn't disable
System Restore. There are two old flight simulators from 2001-2003 that
I never had installed before called Lock On and Jetfighter. I don't
know, maybe one of them could have caused the problem. Otherwise only
Avast updates and Windows Updates may have had something to do with it.
 
In
VanguardLH said:
Were these *clean* installs of Windows XP SP-2 followed by the SP-3
update? Or did you also install any 3rd party software? There are
some utilities that will disable SR because it interferes with their
purpose, like a background always-running file history backup program
(i.e., file versioning). I can't recall the programs but I have seen
some that need SR restore since they are providing an encompassing
function for which SR would interfere with them supplanting SR.
Click to expand...

Boy you sure have a list of questions, don't you? This will definitely
keep me busy for a while. ROTFL. Okay one (this one in fact) had SP3
installed in the beginning of 2010. Very few applications are installed
before the Windows updates. So some yes. The Alienware which had the
same problem with System Restore not working was recently reinstalled
from the Recovery disc from Alienware since I just recently purchased it
used.
If you run services.msc, is the System Restore Service started? Is it
configured for automatic startup? Check the Dependencies tab under
the properties for the SR service. It will list the RPC service. Is
that service (on which the SR service depends) also started and also
configured for automatic startup? If the other service(s) aren't
started upon which a service depends then the service won't start.
Click to expand...

A little late for that, isn't it? As I fixed both by running sr.inf. I
thought I might luck out by using one of my earlier clones (that I use
as old backups). I don't have any for the Alienware yet, but this
Gateway I have lots of them. And the older clones, System Restore seems
to be working fine. So it is something just recently that affected both
systems.
You didn't mention if these hosts are in a corporate network or if
they are standalone hosts (maybe networked together in a workgroup).
If these are workstations in a domain on a corporate network, it's
possible that group policies will disable SR, especially if the
company is pushing alternative host backup methods.
Click to expand...

No, no, no corporate network, just a computer aficionado. I used to home
network all of the families computers together. But when one family
member caught a virus (which didn't spread to other computers on the
network thank goodness), they all have been isolated from one another.
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...p-policy/bf10cf68-7da3-4222-a7ce-1ae827bf1845

While you like the SR feature to recover a host to somewhat its prior
state (it's not exactly the prior state), the company might not like
you using it because it could recover malware. You get infected, you
get rid of the malware, but then you backup (from backups which
includes SR) to restore the malware. Since the company wants you
using their image prepped for the software they authorized for use on
their computers which is their property and is more safe and known
than doing a SR point recovery, they may not want you using SR.
Instead they want to restore using their image.

Since you mention a host is mostly used for games, it is also possible
that you defined a hardware profile that disables some services (to
make the game play better by not consuming memory and CPU resources
for services that you don't need when running the game). When you
boot, and if you have multiple hardware platforms defined, you select
one that disables most services to run the game (i.e., you pick the
gaming profile). It's also possible the default profile had the
service disabled (it won't start when you select the profile on
startup; however, if you only have one profile then you don't get
prompted to pick one). I've seen users that intended to define a
gaming profile but ended up modifying their default and only profile.
Click to expand...

I don't recall saying anything about a host (nor do I use game hosts),
but I checked profiles on this one and I have three of them. None of
which I created.

Undocked Profile
Docked Profile
Docked Profile 3 (current)

The Alienware has only one:

Profile 1 (Current)
Right-click on My Computer and select Properties, or open the System
applet in Control Panel. Go to the Hardware tab. Click on "Hardware
Profiles". Is more than one listed? Then go look at the services
(run "services.msc"). Under the System Restore Service definition,
look under its Log On tab. The hardware profile(s) are listed there
(which means this service is included in that profile whether it is
to be enabled to disabled). Under each hardware profile, is the SR
service set to enabled or disabled?
Click to expand...

I don't think I should be playing around with undocked and docked
profiles without actually undocking and docking. As it switches profiles
automatically when you do so. Plus loading one or the other in the wrong
state could cause problems I would think.
Did you clean out the Event Viewer logs (after exiting all
applications), reboot the computer, and check the Event Viewer for
errors regarding the startup of the SR service?
Click to expand...

A little late for that, but all of the old event logs are still there
when System Restore wasn't functioning.
Are you using any state enforcement programs? That is, no matter what
changes you make to the host, upon reboot a prior known state is
restored to the host. I'm talking about products like Returnil or
Microsoft's SteadyState. You might get SR working but after a reboot
it'll be back to the disabled state.
Click to expand...

Nope, nothing like that.
 
BillW50 said:
In

Boy you sure have a list of questions, don't you? This will definitely
keep me busy for a while. ROTFL. Okay one (this one in fact) had SP3
installed in the beginning of 2010. Very few applications are installed
before the Windows updates. So some yes. The Alienware which had the
same problem with System Restore not working was recently reinstalled
from the Recovery disc from Alienware since I just recently purchased it
used.


A little late for that, isn't it? As I fixed both by running sr.inf. I
thought I might luck out by using one of my earlier clones (that I use
as old backups). I don't have any for the Alienware yet, but this
Gateway I have lots of them. And the older clones, System Restore seems
to be working fine. So it is something just recently that affected both
systems.
Click to expand...

Late? Did you fix this problem already for ALL your problematic hosts?
From trying to interpret your post, it appears your fix was to edit the
sr.inf definition file (so it had the correct paths to the files). So
was all of everything in your post before your last paragraph
unnecesssary and you were just asking about having to edit the sr.inf
file? Obviously a Google search would've answered your question "Has
there been any talk about /this/ at all?" but it was unclear what "this"
was. Maybe all you meant by "this" was editing the sr.inf file. Sorry,
if that's what you meant, I missed it.
I don't recall saying anything about a host (nor do I use game hosts),
Click to expand...

host: http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/H/host.html

I doubt these are setup as standalone computers that have no networking.
but I checked profiles on this one and I have three of them. None of
which I created.

Undocked Profile
Docked Profile
Docked Profile 3 (current)

The Alienware has only one:

Profile 1 (Current)
Click to expand...

So one is a laptop and the other is a desktop.
I don't think I should be playing around with undocked and docked
profiles without actually undocking and docking. As it switches profiles
automatically when you do so. Plus loading one or the other in the wrong
state could cause problems I would think.
Click to expand...

But you could still check the SR service to see if it is enabled under
all those profiles. However, if editing the sr.inf, the last thing you
mentioned and perhaps the "this" you wanted to discuss, then again this
info is "too late".
A little late for that, but all of the old event logs are still there
when System Restore wasn't functioning.
Click to expand...

Well, at this point, I don't know WHAT you really wanted to discuss. If
your entire post distilled down to "Has there been any talk about this
at all?" then my distilled answer is "What did a Google search find?
Looks like it."

http://www.google.com/search?q=+"windows+xp"+%2B"sr.inf"+%2B"system+restore"+file+path
http://www.google.com/search?q=+"windows+xp"+%2B"sr.inf"+%2B"system+restore"
 
In
VanguardLH said:
Late? Did you fix this problem already for ALL your problematic
hosts? From trying to interpret your post, it appears your fix was to
edit the sr.inf definition file (so it had the correct paths to the
files). So was all of everything in your post before your last
paragraph unnecesssary and you were just asking about having to edit
the sr.inf file? Obviously a Google search would've answered your
question "Has there been any talk about /this/ at all?" but it was
unclear what "this" was. Maybe all you meant by "this" was editing
the sr.inf file. Sorry, if that's what you meant, I missed it.
Click to expand...

Sorry if I was unclear, but I said I installed the sr.inf file. When you
double click, it wants to install SR from a SP3 CD. I didn't have one.
So on the Alienware (I was unaware at the time my Gateway SR was not
working either), I grabbed one of my Gateway clones and told the install
to look here instead of the CD/DVD drive. And it was perfectly happy
with that and SR now works.

Later I found the same problem on this Gateway. Then I said wait a
minute. My old cloned drives had the files, where are they here? I
checked and all of the files seemed to be in place. So this time I told
the SR install (aka sr.inf) to look on this running Windows for the
files. And now this Gateway SR is working now too.
host: http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/H/host.html

I doubt these are setup as standalone computers that have no
networking.
Click to expand...

Yes indeed. Although I thought you were referring to the type of host
which is very common with online games. Where two or more players can
interact in the same game. Which the players are connecting through the
game manufacture's server.

But yes, they have Internet through TCP/IP through a WiFi router through
a DSL connection. But I locked out all networking between them due to
one family member getting a virus years ago. It didn't spread to any
other computer, so all sharing has been disabled and all guest accounts
too. So if they want to share, they have to use sneakernet and keep it
all away from my computers.
So one is a laptop and the other is a desktop.
Click to expand...

Actually no, they are both laptops. My six Gateway M465 have docking
ports and I use them both in or out of the docks. The Alienware M9700 (I
have two) is also a laptop. Although Alienware calls these monsters as
desktop replacements. Which is really just a fancy name for a monster
laptop running desktop GPUs chipsets. And they also double as space
heaters in the wintertime. And if you are interested in long runtime
from the battery. Forget it with these monsters. As they won't run long
without AC power. ;-)
But you could still check the SR service to see if it is enabled under
all those profiles. However, if editing the sr.inf, the last thing
you mentioned and perhaps the "this" you wanted to discuss, then
again this info is "too late".
Click to expand...

No dock and undock profiles, but Windows did. Frankly I don't even know
why I need more than one. As the only thing that changes between docked
and undocked is some ports disappear and reappear. And a single profile
Windows detects them leaving and appearing anyway.

Anyway I loaded each and every profile and they are exactly the same. SR
service is running as well as everything else.
Well, at this point, I don't know WHAT you really wanted to discuss.
If your entire post distilled down to "Has there been any talk about
this at all?" then my distilled answer is "What did a Google search
find? Looks like it."

http://www.google.com/search?q=+"windows+xp"+%2B"sr.inf"+%2B"system+restore"+file+path
http://www.google.com/search?q=+"windows+xp"+%2B"sr.inf"+%2B"system+restore"
Click to expand...

When I installed SP3 on the Alienware and then the rest of the Windows
security updates and found SR not working. Then discovered the Gateway
wasn't either. But my SP2 machines were just fine (and I have updates
turned off on those), I assumed it was SP3. But now I don't think it was
linked to SP3. Although some later Windows update is still a
possibility. Still odd that two totally different computers popped up
with the same problem.
 
In
BillW50 said:
In

No dock and undock profiles, but Windows did. Frankly I don't even
know why I need more than one. As the only thing that changes between
docked and undocked is some ports disappear and reappear. And a
single profile Windows detects them leaving and appearing anyway.

Anyway I loaded each and every profile and they are exactly the same.
SR service is running as well as everything else.
Click to expand...

That first line came out wrong. I know I wrote something else and then
the Word 2000 window screwed up on the display and I hit CTRL-Z a few
times and I went too far and pressed CTRL-Y to undo and it got worse. I
thought everything was back to normal. Although after it was send and I
read it as it came back to me, I saw this line wrong.

What I meant by "No dock and undock profiles, but Windows did" was I
didn't create any profiles, but Windows did it all.
 
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