Shame on Microsoft-Customer-Avoid Vista

[Guest]

I sit here facing hours and hours of work to go until late tonight after 15
(not exaggerating) hours on the phone with Hewlett-Packard tech support
waiting on a backup I pray will save my data and programs that are my
livelihood as I am disabled and live on the few hundred a month it makes me.
The 15 hours is because Vista won’t boot and HP blames Microsoft; MS wants
$60 just to talk about it and blames HP and back & forth & round and round
with the end result being neither has to assume any responsibility.

Now:
Microsoft makes Vista, how they made a deal to sell it cheap to HP is not my
fault as a consumer and is not disclosed by EITHER company.

HP buys Vista on the cheap under pressure from Microsoft (or why else is 7
year old XP $135 more?) so that is MS marketing. Again, not my fault and not
disclosed except after much searching on this site that the version you are
getting is NOT an original full-version of Vista.
Consumer deception in the fine print, or do they expect consumers to read
for hours in the bowels of this site before they buy?

Now I am not the “average†user, having had everything from an Apple II to
3.1 to NT-XP and now Vista, I notice that through NT original disks came with
your system. So if I can be deceived into losing 3 days with a crashed
computer praying that after this backup is done I can uninstall the drive I
am backing up to, uninstall the extra 512MB video card installed extra so
Vista would work right, and then hope the recovery partition works, and then
somehow I figure out how to restore the backup after re-installing everything
and re-downloading countless updates.

The point is Microsoft; in knowing collusion with manufacturers is pushing
out Vista and not telling customers the cheap version from the PC company
isn’t “full†Vista (or you would still get disks in the box)

Microsoft and the manufacturers should both be ashamed for the levels they
have sunken to in order to sell Vista.
If I am having all these problems I think of the average guy or businessman
or student who buys one of these! (BTW typing this on 7 yr. old Dell with XP)
That’s why when I talked to a Firedog support tech (they charge $129 to do
what I am doing, (and he told me how—HP support in India didn’t know their
own machine like him) he said that at his location alone they had done
“hundreds†of these restores on HPs (at $129)
So consumers pay and pay and Microsoft blames the vendor and the vendor
blames Microsoft

BUT:
Microsoft is to blame. They set the rules and make the deals, they wrote the
buggy software; they “push†it out cheaper than old XP since people aren’t
buying it at retail. They set the policy and ship "vendor" versions instead
of saying "boxed set only" to vendors.
Microsoft will surely delete this but you should be more than ashamed.
THE MOST prime example of corporate greed from the richest corporation there
is.

If anyone could afford to sell the products ethically it’s Microsoft.
So the blame lies here...3 hours in and 40% complete on a backup to an
internal drive...another day (4) wasted. Never again a Hewlett-Packard for
sure, maybe a PC/Winows just from necessity but definitely the next major
workstation will be a MAC.
Expensive, but nobody to blame but Macintosh if it goes wrong.

 

[jack]

Hi,
VIsta SUCK!
After you reload Widosws, GET XP!, use R-Stuio to scan your HD, than select
the files which you need to recover an copy them __IMPORTANT__to another
HD!!!!NOT THE SAME!!!!, you have 99% chance to recover your files if you did
not use decription before.
Cheers,
Jack

 

[Guest]

Working in IS here in the USA it sounds like a user error problem to me.

Anyone who supposedly has ran from an Apple II to Vista should know how to
restore a system, a very simple beginners job. I installed Vista in less that
a hour without any problems a few weeks ago. I also built a Apple II from
board blanks and a bag of transistors etc, and it had to work to graduate.

You didn't get your backup disk made? shame on you. Not Microsoft. I have a
shiny backup disk sitting on my desk. They tell you numerous times to do that
FIRST. I'd get off Microsoft's back and call a real technician, since you
can't handle it.

 

[Guest]

You didn't get your backup disk made? shame on you. Not Microsoft. I have a
shiny backup disk sitting on my desk. They tell you numerous times to do that
FIRST. I'd get off Microsoft's back and call a real technician, since you
can't handle it.

Shame on ME??? You CANNOT make a backup disk from the stripped down version
on HP machines. I followed the directions and made the "recovery disk"
immediately upon getting the machine and thought it was a backup disk...BUT
NO... it's a set of tools & diagnostics called PC Doctor. NOWHERE does HP
tell you that.
They told me their "license agreement with Microsoft prevents us from
telling users how to make a backup disc of Vista" their exact words. Then a
MS tech tells me I can get a retail copy for $200+ and then I can make a
backup disk, but of course either way my stuff gets wiped out.
You caught me at the wrong time buddy. I just got off the phone with an
irate client who was one whose e-mails were lost in the reinstall process.
The one HP said would preserve all my data and is on their web site. WRONG.
Followed their web instructions to the letter then paid an additional $75 to
their "real technician" to take control of the computer remotely and find out
why the restore wouldn't work as they said...when he was through their
"professional" process restored stuff from the recycle bin to the desktop and
all kinds of other weird things (including their "reformat" left a bunch of
crud Office support had to spend an hour helping me delete so I could
re-install Office.
I am working with Norton now to try to figure why my now re-installed 360
can't access my on-line e-mail backups to at least get some of my lost
e-mails back. But hours of work in the contact manager, probably 10 other
clients like the one who just called as well as regular "people" who were
waiting on an e-mail response are just "lost in space". The backup files show
66 volumes of data on the DVD but they can't get it back, but they CAN get a
photo from the recycle bin and have it appear back on the desktop.

This IS Microsoft's fault for making the "deal" to sell stripped down
versions to HP without bothering to tell anyone. They could supply to vendors
"in the box" like they used to.

I am a consumer,
You can be a jerk about it if it boosts your ego; but CONSUMERS are not
supposed to be "technicians", especially on 6 week old computers that from
the logs were broken by a Windows update that automatically installed itself
at 5:14am Thurs. morning and sent the machine into an endless loop nobody
could fix.

I AM going to buy an external backup tomorrow but what's your bright idea?
Some people say Ghost won't work; some say Acronis won't work; obviously from
this experience the built in Windows backup doesn't work; so what is your
technical opinion of how to back up 2-400GB hard drives so this doesn't
happen again? (Even if they have less than 100GB data on them)

 

[Guest]

My...my...my...Bill Gates must be sitting behind his nice big desk, casually
stroking an ugly, hairless cat (Mr. Bigglesworth?). Can't you just see him
with his pinky finger touching his lower lip, saying words to the effect of
"Ahhhhh...VISTA! My masterpiece! I have made over ONE BAZILLLLLLLLLLLLION
DOLLARS since VISTA's debut, just in selling MORE useless software as "fix
its" for the original program! I AM A GENIUS!!"

Anyway...I digress. I am new here (first post) and decided to reply to
DDT's post since we must have spoken with all of the same "helpful and
courteous techs" who need who attend classes in SPEAKING ENGLISH and SPEAKING
SLOWLY before speaking at all! It was a toss up between THIS thread or the
"No OS backup for OEM Purchasers?" since I came here seeking advice on doing
a monthly backup of my files with my wonderful VISTA system! I keep thinking
of the acronym explanation people have given to DELTA for similar reasons:
D on't
E xpect
L uggage
T o
A rrive.

Howzabout:

V ery
I mpressive
S taff
T o
A ssist

Forgive my soapbox here but I've had Vista since the end of January and have
yet to be able to get it to function half as well as Windows 3.1 did! My list
of complaints/problems/etc is far too lengthy (I know...so's the post) but
since I keep getting REMINDED that IT'S BEEN OVER 30 DAYS SINCE YOU DID A
FULL SYSTEM BACKUP...I had to ask. Backing up with XP or ANYtHING else was
easy, but (even though is states right there on the "start backup" page that
"no system files or programs will be included in backup": they are still
being backed up and it takes over four hours and three DVD-RW 4.7 GB disks to
do the job! It might not be ALL THE stuff on the hard drive, but I can
assure you I have NOWHERE near 15GB of files! I've no idea what I am doing
wrong but when I see the "IT'S BEEN OVER 30 DAYS...." message, I want to
scream. As soon as I get one problem fixed, two more have taken up
residence. I cannot backup, many of my programs/peripherals were and/or are,
NOT compatible with VISTA (no one told me that before the purchase), my PDA
which held my LIFE was not compatible and I found this out by attempting to
do a hotsync...and finding that ALL of my contacts (over 1000 entries) notes,
personal folders, etc. were GONE! Not ARCHIVED...GONE. I had to get an
entire new PDA which cost a lot more than the one that used to work, and that
still isn't "right" either.

Guys, I apologize for this loooooooooooooong post but truthfully, I barely
touched on the list of "issues" I have with the VISTA system. If anyone can
give me a quick list of bullet points on how to run a backup of only THE
STUFF I WANT TO SELECT, I will be forever in your debt. I'll check back
tomorrow since it's nearly 3:30 am here where I am.

Thanks for listening...

-- Sprinkle a little stardust wherever you go... Angelina

 

[Guest]

That's the shame of it all. I did the full backup EXACTLY as described on the
web page HP sent me to on their site. AND to be sure did both a hard-disk
(2nd drive & unplugged during restore) AND DVD backup. Then it wouldn't
"recognize" the backup although I could see 66 FOLDERS of files there (little
data on the machine but E-mails that were vital and vital contacts)
So I paid HP $75 to restore the backups by "remote access" and it did
bizzare things like take photos I had temporarily saved on the desktop &
other such useless junk and put them back on the desktop, some over a week
old. BUT my e-mails & contacts, downloaded software, etc. is nowhere to be
found. (seems to be on disk/DVD by looking at individual files but no way to
restore them)

So far vendors have been sympathetic after calls for re-downloads but there
are hours and hours of work to be done (including reinstalling & configuring
Naturally Speaking which is necessary due to my disabilities including nerve
damage & carpal tunnel)
Vista also works differently now. I can't make Firefox my default browser
for love nor money. It took an Office support tech an hour to help me clean
up files "I have never seen" before Office would re-install. And on & on, a
new thing everyday. Now I have reset my e-mail accounts but the behaviour of
Outlook is different. It works but no way to explain it.
I'm off to buy a $200 external backup drive that will hold 750 GB
uncompressed for a mirror but I am about to agree with the fellow in the
other thread who advised this would have been a good time to buy and install
XP and just worry about re-installing etc. all my programs from scratch since
the "backups" didn't work either. Sadly the whole thing could have surely
been fixed if there had been the ability to "boot from disk" to get into
windows, undo the update that made it crash (which system restore back as far
as 6 "points" wouldn't do) and it would have probably fired up.
Would have been a good time to "wipe the disk" and install XP.

I love the cat & Bazillion dollars comment, I am 100% sure that's what he
and his Microsoft stockholder cronies are doing grrrr....
If he wasn't a recluse he would be walking funny from where all the copies
of Vista had been placed...

Don't worry Mr. Jobs & stockholders... I'm coming if I can ever save enough
money to buy another new computer (took two years for this junker and I would
have been over 1/2 way to a Mac)

 

[Guest]

Great Thread !

It is a little difficult to criticise MS too harshly for creating a product
that was useful enough to make the world all want to use it (Windows), but
the VISTA debacle shows how big companies become hopelessly mired in their
own pomposity. We have all now been "duped" slightly into VISTA, with few
other alternatives. But it will never happen again. The world is looking
for an alternative to MS, and as soon as a clever enough enterpreneur invests
the resources to create a truly function op system, MS will come crashing
down rather suddenly. One thing is for sure: I will never buy another MS
Op system. I will engrave stone plates with a chisel if I have to !

 

[Guest]

Great Thread !

It is a little difficult to criticise MS too harshly for creating a product
that was useful enough to make the world all want to use it (Windows), but
the VISTA debacle shows how big companies become hopelessly mired in their
own pomposity. We have all now been "duped" slightly into VISTA, with few
other alternatives. But it will never happen again. The world is looking
for an alternative to MS, and as soon as a clever enough enterpreneur invests
the resources to create a truly function op system, MS will come crashing
down rather suddenly. One thing is for sure: I will never buy another MS
Op system. I will engrave stone plates with a chisel if I have to !

 

[Guest]

This saga has got more & more involved.
There REALLY should be a class action suit against all these companies who
advertise new computers (HP, Dell, Conpaq, Sony, Leveno, Gateway, etc.) every
Sunday in the newspaper and the retailers (Comp USA, Office max-depot, Best
Buy, Circuit City)
ALL OF THEM for conspiring-yes conspiracy to defraud; false advertising- in
every sense of the word (they all know, the Geek Squad guy in Best Buy will
tell you but the sales person doesn’t know) continuing to advertise EVERY
computer as having GENUINE Vista Whatever (and they all do) that it is NOT
GENUINE Vista because it is NOT the same as the "box version" with the same
name like "ultimate" or "home premium".
It is consumer's reasonable expectation. The use of the word "genuine"
implies the "real" product i.e. the "box" version, like buying something
containing "Genuine" sugar and you buy it and it has Splenda and you happen
to be allergic to that and they say "well it's as sweet as sugar and it's
made from sugar" yadyada... it would never fly.
But this is done over and over every day and continues unabated.
It is so bad the HP, Dell and other companies are now offering Business
customers special disks that will revert their machines to XP (not advertised
and they won’t give me one because I bought “retail†didn’t order from the
“business†on-line site) but people don’t know so they keep buying Vista. SP1
is already out to over 12,000 beta testers but who knows if it will help.
It’s a piece of junk software as an OS and many flaws are “designed inâ€.
Since my “recovery†I can no longer use any sleep or hibernate modes because
the machine will always lose its IP so I have to DOS in as an admin and run
the IP config stuff to pick one up when 3 other computers in the home (1
Vista, 2 XP) never have had the problem, HP blames Vista, but it never did it
for 6 weeks before the “recovery†now it is a full-time problem (must just
be the HP version of Vista) so the computer is just left “on†24/7
Average consumers are being duped into buying the crud everyday and nobody
mentions it. It’s as big a rip off as mis-made stuff from China… but that
affects little kids so it gets “press†this affects unknowing adults usually
sold by unknowing salespeople in stores and labeled “Genuine†by the mfg.
with Microsoft’s blessing.
A huge class action suit against every mfg. that used the word “Genuine†and
Microsoft for knowingly selling them versions they know are not the same as
the “box†to help the mfg. reach “price points†and every retailer for
advertising it as a Genuine.â€
It won’t happen but it SHOULD, it’s a big corporate conspiracy and if there
ever was one. The “revert to XP disks are to placate the big corporate buyers
who might sue, but there is no “cure†for Vista for the average person even
if it wasn’t a cheap…but a quad core “loaded†model, I still shudder to think
of somebody that bought a Celeron with 512 memory and Vista. They were cheap
so they are probably in a dumpster.
“Leopard†should be out this month and I am saving every dime I can hoping
to be able to buy a real-working 64 bit OS on that Mac while I can still sell
this thing for a few $. Maybe the idea of the computer maker having to make
the OS and not selling to others wasn’t so bad… a big PC mag just surveyed
users and on average Mac was 3X as dependable (PC’s broke down ~4X more),
scored 2-3X better on support and overall satisfaction with purchase…see they
have nobody else to blame, if it breaks it has to be either their hardware or
their software so they have to make it work,
The additional dirty secrets I have since found from "Vista Compatible"
software makers when their stuff doesn't work are a real eye opener that
would take pages, but that tem & symbol are just as meaningless as "Genuine"
....
Consumers, buy it if you want; nut know what you are REALLY getting....

 

[Guest]

I agree with a lot of your sentiments, but also, it is a free-market economy.
We, as consumers, deserve a bit of blame for allowing MS to gain such a
quasi-monopolistic hold on the OPSYS market.

I think a lot odf people are waking up to the situation, and Mac stock is
climbing, while MS is plummetting. I have always disliked Apple's way of
doing things also, so this is just an opportunity for a third-party company
to capture market share.

 

[Guest]

I agree with a lot of your sentiments, but also, it is a free-market economy.
We, as consumers, deserve a bit of blame for allowing MS to gain such a
quasi-monopolistic hold on the OPSYS market.

I think a lot odf people are waking up to the situation, and Mac stock is
climbing, while MS is plummetting. I have always disliked Apple's way of
doing things also, so this is just an opportunity for a third-party company
to capture market share.

I don't think too much blame can be placed on consumers. The PC market
domination of Windows from the 3.1 days gave Microsoft the market share and
advertising budget to really overpower anything else.
Of course now (many years later) we know of the “deal†Microsoft had for
years forcing PC makers, in effect, to put their software on ALL new
computers which was ruled & settled as an unfair trade practice but by then
it was already done; the majority of PC users had “Windows†and the effect
has continued. Linux and variants has made a small but growing dent but
still, few people are confident in something they don’t know at all and which
much software is unavailable for an alternative like Linux; the effect is
negligible.
I don’t blame the “average†consumer for falling for the “Genuine†Vista
advertising since I am far more computer literate than the “average†buyer
and I didn’t know until I found out the hard way. I didn’t really want Vista
but it would have cost $400 more to buy a computer with slower components
(although it would have probably been faster overall) that had XP. I still
wouldn’t have had original disks. And I thought “well, everything in the
future will be coming in “Vista†versions so I might as well get it and learn
to use it now anyway.
I agree TOTALLY that consumers should make better decisions. However they
would IF the news media made as big a fuss about this as they have about the
last recall from Mattel. Then consumers would be asking the salespeople “now
is this REALLY “genuine†Vista?â€
“What will I have to do if this system crashed due to Windows†(i.e. not the
consumer’s fault like a virus or such) and then sales might start slipping
and maybe…just maybe… some computer makers would say “for a few dollars more
you can get this model which comes with the “box version†of Windows Vista
Whateverâ€.
Then that great 90 days of “support†would fall on Microsoft’s shoulders
instead of the PC maker. Then the huge support cost for Vista would fall back
on Microsoft too and their accountants would quickly decide it would be
cheaper to fix this mess than to handle all the support issues and jump on
the programmers because it’s all about dollars at Microsoft.
So if it was cheaper to pay the programmers to fix this “year-late but still
pushed out with bugs†OS than to keep trying to handle the innumerable
support requests many of which couldn’t be resolved; resulting in
returns…resulting in PC makers losing dollars …resulting in them putting more
pressure on Microsoft…and again maybe …and a BIG maybe, Microsoft would get
something done about these practices...
At least get some fixes out the door for this mess, and MAINLY either
CLEARLY mark the software as “HP Microsoft Vista†or “Gateway Microsoft
Vista†instead of “Genuine†Microsoft Vista.