SFF XPC HTPC etc.

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Scorche

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This is somewhat technical and somewhat general discussion.
I'm thinking of getting into a Shuttle SN85G4 V3 but I'm not quite sold on it. Going to a small form factor pc gives some limitations. For example I can only use 1 optical drive. ut I'm a bit unsure how it works with HDDs. I would really love to have two HDDs in my computer. And I don't know if I can do that. You see I get
- (2) ATA133 headers
- (2) Serial ATA 150 w/ RAID (0, 1, JBOD)
and I've got one HDD already that's an ATA and the optical is also an ATA interface, so the second HDD would have to be a serial ATA, which is fine, but I wonder if there is enough actual space inside for 2HDDs.
What about the fact that there is no Floppy drive. I don't like the floppy so it's not a big deal, except I need it to instal the OS.
and speaking of OS ... I'm a big fan of win2k will I be running into any problems with drivers or running it as a home theater?
what about watching DVDs on tv? I'll need an extra vide car for that I assume.
hmm so many questions...
does anyone have any good experience with these SFFs? What about AMD SFFs? Must be a reason why there's not that many of them...
 
i've had a look on the shuttle site and theres a couple of points, that is a 754pin based system, while theres not a problem with that now getting hold of CPU's in the future may be difficult as AMD start phasing them out

there is room for 2 hard drives, so you can either use your old one and a SATA or use 2 SATA drives, there isn't a hole for a floppy drive so you have to connect it with the side off and use it to install then disconnect it once you've finished with it and put the case back together

i dont know anything about Win2K so cant comment but it should be ok

you'll need an AGP graphics card to watch anything
 
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thanks a lot for the reply

well, I'm not too worried about the processor being outdated. The reason is that I found that the computers have reached a certain level at which being faster is not that important. What I mean is - sure there wi;ll be newer apps and newer games requiring faster processors, but whatever processor you buy today is fit to do the basic things like surfing the net. I've got a AMD 1.7Ghz at work and the only time I get dissapointed about it's speed is when I realize I can't have 12 apps open at the sime.
Anyhoo - I'm thinking of putting in a sempron 3000 and if I fell it's too slow I'll overclock it (I found that this barebone is very good for overclocking as is the sempron) and hopefully gain the %30+ clock speed increase.
The ability to use 2 HDD's is really helping with this decision. Now all I need is an inexpencive video card so that I can watch dvd's with it.

Anybody know if there are any other cases that come highly recomended?
 
sounds like you've got a plan, the only thing i would say is keep an eye on the CPU temps when you OC it, theres not alot of room in those cases so heat is a big problem
 
ok ... I'm back

ok... So I'm back I wanted o make sure I'm making the right decision going with a SFF. so I was checking out other cases and I found a Aspire X-QPACK. So I looked it up and redid my cost.
this is what I came up with (Prices in Canadian Dollars)

Processor*: AMD Athlon 64 3000+ w/ 512K Cache (Socket 939 - Retail Box ) $184.95
Motherboards*: MSI RS480M2-IL w/ DualDDR400, Video, Lan, 1394, PCI-E x16 $129.95
Memory*: Kingston 512MB PC2700 DDR $69.95
Case*: Aspire X-QPACK Aluminum Case, Red w/ 420W Power Supply (Special Order) $129.95
Optical Drive*: LG Super Multi DVD Writer 16x16 DVD +/-RW, Black (Dual-Layer) $59.95

Sub-Total: $574.75
GST: $40.23
Total Cost: $614.98

versus the other set-up using the shuttle case

Base System*: Shuttle SN85G4 V3 (Athlon64, nForce3 250, Audio, Lan, SATA, Card Reader) $329.95
Processor*: AMD Sempron 3100+ w/ 256K Cache (Retail Box - Socket 754) $124.95
Memory*: Kingston 512MB PC2700 DDR$69.95
Optical Drive*:LG Super Multi DVD Writer 16x16 DVD +/-RW, Black (Dual-Layer)$59.95

Sub-Total: $584.8
GST: $40.94
Total Cost: $625.74

so I'm saving $10 and getting 64bit processor on a Socket 939.

The Shuttle is at 300(L) x 200(W) x 185(H) mm
and the XQpack at 350(L) x 284(W) x 228(H) mm
so the size is slightly largeroverall but not by much
the Shuttle is much more stylish whereas the XQpack is a lot more trendy. I'd rather have the Shuttle sitting next to my tv than the Qpack. especially since the Qpack is packed with the blue lights that make it shine like a chrismass tree, so it's much more distracting then the Shuttle. At the moment the Qpack is only available in red and yellow. but I can still paint it black or metalic, but there's still that ugly window on the side.


any ideas or comments ?
 
either system will be good for sticking next to your TV but, which case do you like the most ? the price difference is not really that bigger factor, with either system i'd change the RAM for some PC3200, and seeing as you've already got the 9800Pro AIW which is AGP, your not gonna be able to use that particular MSI motherboard in the X-QPACK, if you can find one that is socket 939 and is AGP and M-ATX, then hardware wise the X-QPACK is the better of the two
 
wow totaly missed the lack of AGP slot. I guess I just got too excited about the 939. The board fits into the X-QPACK, but if the vide card doesn't, it's no good.

thanks for the advice Me__2001
I guess I'll keep looking, but as it stands I'm buying the shuttle by the end of the week.
 
I'm back and in trouble
I was hoping you could help me with this, since the staff wasn't too hlpfull.
the problem I have is with the graphics card, I cannot get the system to startup becasue the mobo won't power up with a 3.3V card in a 1.5V agp slot ... I didnt even know such problem was possible, but I guess it is. Is there some sort of a jumper or hack to go around this ? I really don't want to return the card sinc it's such a good deal. any ideas ?
thanks in advance
 
i take it you bought the shuttle ? do you have the power plugged into the card ?
 
yah ... I figured that out now - the cause was something quite silly.
the problem I've got now and the past 7 hours is installing the OS. I've reinstalled it with the drivers (or so I believe) and it will not boot up. so I'm just looking if anyone had the same problem
 
this is what I've found that sounds like my problem... except the solution is not working

Q1


Why won’t my operating system install onto the C: Drive?

A1


This could be due to the internal card reader using the “C” drive title (and D, E F). Since the card reader is pre-installed, it has automatically been allocated the first 4 letters (starting from C). Try these solutions to install your operating system onto the C drive and avoid such issues:

1. Remove the card reader cable before install operating system.

2. Partition the hard drive before install operating system.

3. Plug-in the card reader cable.
 
is the hard drive found in the BIOS ? also i think you can manually assign the drive letters from the BIOS although im not sure, are you using a SATA hard drive ? if you are you'll need to install the SATA controller drivers if you haven't already

Edit: if your using a SATA HD you'll need to download the RAID driver disk from this site, you'll then need to put the XP drivers onto a floppy disk and install them

http://global.shuttle.com/Download/Download_File.asp?Item=SN85G4 V3
 
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well after spending 2 days on it I still don't have it operational as I would like.
The problem with the hard drive was quite obscure. I kept switching the jumper setting to untill I saw the BIOS recognize the hard drive. however when it did recognize it and installed it it would not boot afterwards. I was switching the hard drives from one computer to another and I put in a HD with an existing OS which wouldn't boot either, and when I put it back into the original machine I wouldn't boot either untill I fixed the MBR. I tried however installing windows on the other machine on mySFFhard drive and then put it back. it worked on one machine but not the other. I was trying out to see if I could get the win XP to install but it did not work. (this is when 3 hours passed of me switching HD's checking connections etc) so I decided to back up my data and put it all the important things from my SFFHD to my other HD. so that I could format the HD. It apears that the BIOS doesn't like two operating systems installed and I was having a hard time fixind the MBR so after 2hours of backing data up I formatted the drive installed win 2k and had the same problem. so I moved the HD to the other computer once again partitioned it installed win2k left the jumper setting the same as on the other computer and missed the screen with the IDD detection and saw that it ran ... It had to be reinstalled again from the SFF but after that I was able to boot into the HD and run the os. After that I was pretty excited installed the drivers and software I wanted. I did not bother with the ethernet addapter untill the next day. I tried to connect to the internet but realized that the ethernet is not working at all. I installed and uninstalled the provided drivers a coupple of times but it did not recognize the LAN. So I looked into the BIOS and ralized that while setting the bios to a failsafe mode, the ethernet got disabled; so I corrected that thinking 'DUH!!!!', and restarted. After I restarted though I had the NTLDR missing come up and it would not boot into the OS - something I've seen a lot of the day before. Since then I reformatted the partition and installed win2k but the ethernet is still not recognized by the device manager. I'm stuck
right now I'm just looking if anyone had the same problem, looking for newer drivers and thinking of ways to fix this.



Otherwise, while it was running (before I bothered to check if the ethernet is working) I installed WarCraft3 that I borrowed from my brother and ran it at a respectible resolution and settings - and it ran beautifully,crisp and loaded fast. So other than the issue of getting it operational and running the system runns beautifully - except it's louder than I expected, but that's from the fan off the graphics card so I suppose I can deal with that. I haven't tried overclocking it yet, but the BIOS/mobo seems prepared to step it up bit, and I've been hearing the sempron3100+ are supposed to handle 40%+ clock speed.
I thinki the issue with the hard drive I had from the beginning was that I was trying to put the OS onto an existing partition which the instalatin did not like. I also noticed loosing 10+ GB of space off the drive. it's a 160GB and I've seen it use above 140G on my other computer but less than 130 on in the barebone.
I'm also realizing that putting computers togother is not the same as it was a coupple of years ago - I've been out of the loop for 2 years and feel like a complete noob. Ram timings ... I didn't even know about that a coupple of months ago.
 
installing th OS on another computer then transfering the hard drive will not work

is the hard drive SATA ?
 
no it's just regular IDE
but I wonder why I coutdn't boot back into the os after I made changes to the bios - I wonder if it has something to do with me loosing a part of storage space.
anyways - the Os got installed and s running at the moment.
 
Everything is working perfectly now
I think the problems originated from putting the OS on a HD without formatting it.
The second time I reinstalled it it went off without a hitch even the ethernet loaded up got the latest service pack etc. I just hope I don't see the NTLDR missing again message.
thanks again for your time
 
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