seperons overtake XP's

  • Thread starter Thread starter Christo
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Christo

i noticed on ebuyer there are hardly any mid range XP processors available,
they all seem to be semprons

is a 2800 sepron the same as a 2800 XP apart from the l2 cache etc?
 
i noticed on ebuyer there are hardly any mid range XP processors available,
they all seem to be semprons

is a 2800 sepron the same as a 2800 XP apart from the l2 cache etc?

Yeah they seem to be phasing them out as people have said. Newegg
didnt have any retail barton 2500s and the prices have actually been
bumping up a little rather than getting cheaper. I was pissed off at
first until I noticed the semperon 3100 754 socket which all around
seems like a much better deal than the socket As IF that is the price
starts really coming down on them and THEY become the real replacement
for the Barton 2500 xp. it would be a killer deal if the prices for
them fell below 100 and they came out with more of them - 3200, 4000
etc and they were also easily OCeable. Right now the price is too
close to the AMD 64 2800s.

Ive read the semperons are actually slightly slower too besides the
cache at the same rating but Ive been too lazy to verify that since I
wasnt that interested in them. However at a low enough price even they
are OK. Ive seen some cheap deals at FRYs a store in the US.
 
The semprons are multiplier locked and the core is a Tbred (681) not a
barton. From what I have read they are very similar to the XP-Athlon with
some of the features missing (slower). They are currently priced higher
than the XP's they are to replace (about the same as the barton core). AMD
is trying to push the AMD64 and FX processors and they are doing every thing
they can to make the A-Socket CPU's unattractive, slower more costly
Semprons as compared to the XP line, multiplier locked cpu's, ect. Bad
marketing, if Intel decides to lower it's price on the P4's AMD will lose
the market shares it has gained in the XP line. The AMD64 motherboards have
not yet matured and are just XP boards refitted for AMD64's. Once the new
motherboards with the PCIe are released such as the Nforce4's allot of
people are not going to be happy with there current AMD64 configuration as
PCIe and socket 939 HT will replace all other AMD64 systems. The Sempron is
just another name for short term profits. Higher priced 939 motherboards,
higher priced AMD64 cpu's, higher priced PCIe video cards, higher priced 64
bit operating system, and possibly higher priced DDRII memory for any new
AMD64 system. If AMD removes the socket A, Intel P4's may become a nice OC
budget system. The people at Intel have played this game for some time now,
why do think Intel has held off on the release of their new 64 bit processor
line?

BTW I am not a Intel fan but could become one if the price is right.
 
Rusty said:
The semprons are multiplier locked and the core is a Tbred (681) not a
barton. From what I have read they are very similar to the XP-Athlon with
some of the features missing (slower). They are currently priced higher
than the XP's they are to replace (about the same as the barton core).
AMD is trying to push the AMD64 and FX processors and they are doing every
thing they can to make the A-Socket CPU's unattractive, slower more costly
Semprons as compared to the XP line, multiplier locked cpu's, ect. Bad
marketing, if Intel decides to lower it's price on the P4's AMD will lose
the market shares it has gained in the XP line. The AMD64 motherboards
have not yet matured and are just XP boards refitted for AMD64's. Once
the new motherboards with the PCIe are released such as the Nforce4's
allot of people are not going to be happy with there current AMD64
configuration as PCIe and socket 939 HT will replace all other AMD64
systems. The Sempron is just another name for short term profits. Higher
priced 939 motherboards, higher priced AMD64 cpu's, higher priced PCIe
video cards, higher priced 64 bit operating system, and possibly higher
priced DDRII memory for any new AMD64 system. If AMD removes the socket
A, Intel P4's may become a nice OC budget system. The people at Intel
have played this game for some time now, why do think Intel has held off
on the release of their new 64 bit processor line?

BTW I am not a Intel fan but could become one if the price is right.
AMD are stupid then if they are putting everything into AMD64

granted they are attractive but there is no 64 bit OS that can be widely
used by everyone in the market, yes there is the BETA version of XP 64bit
but that is still just in BETA testing

socket A is the only real widely available AMD CPU that anyone looking to
build and use can afford, AMD64 is pointless if you ask me until a 64 bit
version of a popular windows OS can be released

is it true linux will run at 64bit?

I am not totally quizzed up on the thing, but I have been unfortunate I
purchased a XP2600+ and it has a locked multiplier, due to AMD's beating up
of the XP

it stinks, i thought AMD were all for the overclocker and the system
builder, now i cant build a decent system because these semprons are SH*T if
ou dont mind me saying... when compared to the XP's anyway, gnna have to get
a XP2700 as it seems to be the only model closest to the 2500 (that i would
prefer for this build im doing)

it cant be that bad though.
 
Christo said:
AMD are stupid then if they are putting everything into AMD64

I agree but it sure appears that way.
granted they are attractive but there is no 64 bit OS that can be widely
used by everyone in the market, yes there is the BETA version of XP 64bit
but that is still just in BETA testing

socket A is the only real widely available AMD CPU that anyone looking to
build and use can afford, AMD64 is pointless if you ask me until a 64 bit
version of a popular windows OS can be released

Again I agree, I figure that AMD sees the AMD64 as a viable 32 bit
processor, which it is, and can replace there XP line with this higher
priced processor. As far as I have read only the higher priced FX series
will be unlocked. I can see why AMD locked there processors though. All
you need to RMA a AMD processor is a stock fan and heat sink. I am sure
they recieved allot of RMAed fried OEM processors with a AMD retail fan,
which was bought at a flee market sale.
is it true linux will run at 64bit?

Yes, as far as I know there is already a 64 bit version avaiable.
I am not totally quizzed up on the thing, but I have been unfortunate I
purchased a XP2600+ and it has a locked multiplier, due to AMD's beating
up of the XP

it stinks, i thought AMD were all for the overclocker and the system
builder, now i cant build a decent system because these semprons are SH*T
if ou dont mind me saying... when compared to the XP's anyway, gnna have
to get a XP2700 as it seems to be the only model closest to the 2500 (that
i would prefer for this build im doing)

You might want to get a AMD XP mobil processor, they are unlocked and very
overclockable.
But you might want to find one quickly before they stop production on those.
All mobile AMD processors are OEM and do not carry a 3 year waranty,
therefore AMD does not have to concern it's self with RMA's on the mobil
processor line.
 
AMD are stupid then if they are putting everything into AMD64

granted they are attractive but there is no 64 bit OS that can be widely
used by everyone in the market, yes there is the BETA version of XP 64bit
but that is still just in BETA testing

<yawn>
Have you been asleep for the past year or so?
It is clearly demonstrated that an Athlon 64 does NOT depend
on 64 bit for it's performance... performs VERY well at
32bit. It's a bit like buying a truck with a trailor hitch,
having the hitch doesn't effect everyday driving, just your
ability to do more in the future.

socket A is the only real widely available AMD CPU that anyone looking to
build and use can afford, AMD64 is pointless if you ask me until a 64 bit
version of a popular windows OS can be released

Nonsense. An Athlon 64 can now be had for under $150 at the
low end, and if you want to consider even cheaper, as always
you can simply buy older technology... eventually A64
lower-speed parts will drop in price and fill that role as
all it's predecessors have.


is it true linux will run at 64bit?
yes

I am not totally quizzed up on the thing, but I have been unfortunate I
purchased a XP2600+ and it has a locked multiplier, due to AMD's beating up
of the XP

It's not much of a hardship, any modern socket A board will
go past 200MHz FSB, making the potential speed anywhere from
the default 2.1 up to 2.6GHz, wherever your specific
specimen's ceiling is. Besides, rasing FSB is better than
multiplier but not a massive difference. 170-185 FSB should
be obtainable.

it stinks, i thought AMD were all for the overclocker and the system
builder, now i cant build a decent system because these semprons are SH*T if
ou dont mind me saying... when compared to the XP's anyway, gnna have to get
a XP2700 as it seems to be the only model closest to the 2500 (that i would
prefer for this build im doing)

it cant be that bad though.

Did you look around or only check a few retailers? In the
States a Barton XP2500 can still be found for $64.
http://www.buyaib.com/amdatxp251sb.html
 
Nonsense. An Athlon 64 can now be had for under $150 at the
low end, and if you want to consider even cheaper, as always
you can simply buy older technology... eventually A64
lower-speed parts will drop in price and fill that role as
all it's predecessors have.

Why pay $150 Athlon 64 when a $100 Athlon XP, which appears to be on the
verge of no more, will match the performance and the older technology is the
technology that the Athlon XP was built on at a higher price tag.
It's not much of a hardship, any modern socket A board will
go past 200MHz FSB, making the potential speed anywhere from
the default 2.1 up to 2.6GHz, wherever your specific
specimen's ceiling is. Besides, rasing FSB is better than
multiplier but not a massive difference. 170-185 FSB should
be obtainable.

An NF7-S motherboard with the right memory and a good unlocked mobil XP can
reach a FSB between 220 and 230. If the processor was locked 210 maybe and
to me thats a big difference in everday use. I believe that you would have
to pay a little more than $150 for a AMD64 that would perform better than a
mobil xp at 220Mhz.

If Intel decides to drop there prices on the P4 with the current motherboard
technology available for the Intel processors then I do believe that the
locked P4 will be a better buy than the lower end locked Athlon 64's at the
same price. What do you think?
 
An NF7-S motherboard with the right memory and a good unlocked mobil XP can
reach a FSB between 220 and 230. If the processor was locked 210 maybe and
to me thats a big difference in everday use. I believe that you would have
to pay a little more than $150 for a AMD64 that would perform better than a
mobil xp at 220Mhz.

If Intel decides to drop there prices on the P4 with the current motherboard
technology available for the Intel processors then I do believe that the
locked P4 will be a better buy than the lower end locked Athlon 64's at the
same price. What do you think?

I think businesses and end-users won't buy hundreds to
thousands of $ worth of software so they have the
optimizations needed to reap the performance from a P4,
unless income is closely tied to their workstation
productivity. The price:performance of a P4 must include
the cost of replacement software for many if not most uses.
Users need bench their specific application of interest to
make an informed choice, not just the newest app some
reviewer could get ahold of.
 
Rusty said:
The semprons are multiplier locked and the core is a Tbred (681) not a
barton.

The Sempron 3000+ is a Barton.

http://www.c627627.com/AMD/AthlonXP/
From what I have read they are very similar to the XP-Athlon with
some of the features missing (slower). They are currently priced higher
than the XP's they are to replace (about the same as the barton core). AMD
is trying to push the AMD64 and FX processors and they are doing every thing
they can to make the A-Socket CPU's unattractive, slower more costly

AMD is positioning the Sempron against the Celeron, and the Athlon 64
against the Pentium 4. The Sempron chips are all 32 bit, and the Athlon 64
chips are all 64 bit. AMD is sending the message that 32 bit chips should
all be budget chips. It is a great marketing strategy.
Semprons as compared to the XP line, multiplier locked cpu's, ect. Bad
marketing, if Intel decides to lower it's price on the P4's AMD will lose
the market shares it has gained in the XP line. The AMD64 motherboards have
not yet matured and are just XP boards refitted for AMD64's. Once the new
motherboards with the PCIe are released such as the Nforce4's allot of
people are not going to be happy with there current AMD64 configuration as
PCIe and socket 939 HT will replace all other AMD64 systems. The Sempron is
just another name for short term profits.

No, it is AMD's way of making a bold statement that 64 bit chips are the way
to go for higher performance, and all 32 bit chips should be budget chips.
It makes Intel's high priced 32 bit chips seem silly. It also makes a very clear
distinction between higher end and budget chips. The Athlon XP was lost
in the middle, with some chips being very inexpensive, and others not so
inexpensive.
Higher priced 939 motherboards,
higher priced AMD64 cpu's, higher priced PCIe video cards, higher priced 64
bit operating system, and possibly higher priced DDRII memory for any new
AMD64 system. If AMD removes the socket A, Intel P4's may become a nice OC
budget system. The people at Intel have played this game for some time now,
why do think Intel has held off on the release of their new 64 bit processor
line?

Intel has released them, but to large OEM's like Dell. You can buy a Dell
system with a 64 bit Pentium 4 or Xeon. It won't be so cheap though.
BTW I am not a Intel fan but could become one if the price is right.

If you want the right price, stick with AMD.
 
Christo said:
AMD are stupid then if they are putting everything into AMD64

granted they are attractive but there is no 64 bit OS that can be widely
used by everyone in the market, yes there is the BETA version of XP 64bit
but that is still just in BETA testing

socket A is the only real widely available AMD CPU that anyone looking to
build and use can afford, AMD64 is pointless if you ask me until a 64 bit
version of a popular windows OS can be released

You are missing the point that any CPU on the socket 754 platform will be
faster than any socket a CPU. This will be the case if you use 32 bit or 64
bit windows. Why, because change in architecture namely the integrated
memory controller.
So it is not pointless...
 
Rusty said:
I agree but it sure appears that way.

Again I agree, I figure that AMD sees the AMD64 as a viable 32 bit
processor, which it is, and can replace there XP line with this higher
priced processor. As far as I have read only the higher priced FX series
will be unlocked. I can see why AMD locked there processors though. All
you need to RMA a AMD processor is a stock fan and heat sink. I am sure
they recieved allot of RMAed fried OEM processors with a AMD retail fan,
which was bought at a flee market sale.

Yes, as far as I know there is already a 64 bit version avaiable.

You might want to get a AMD XP mobil processor, they are unlocked and very
overclockable.
But you might want to find one quickly before they stop production on
those. All mobile AMD processors are OEM and do not carry a 3 year
waranty, therefore AMD does not have to concern it's self with RMA's on
the mobil processor line.

yeah but you cant RMA a processor that you tried to OC can you?

or at least i was told so
 
kony said:
<yawn>
Have you been asleep for the past year or so?
It is clearly demonstrated that an Athlon 64 does NOT depend
on 64 bit for it's performance... performs VERY well at
32bit. It's a bit like buying a truck with a trailor hitch,
having the hitch doesn't effect everyday driving, just your
ability to do more in the future.



Nonsense. An Athlon 64 can now be had for under $150 at the
low end, and if you want to consider even cheaper, as always
you can simply buy older technology... eventually A64
lower-speed parts will drop in price and fill that role as
all it's predecessors have.




It's not much of a hardship, any modern socket A board will
go past 200MHz FSB, making the potential speed anywhere from
the default 2.1 up to 2.6GHz, wherever your specific
specimen's ceiling is. Besides, rasing FSB is better than
multiplier but not a massive difference. 170-185 FSB should
be obtainable.



Did you look around or only check a few retailers? In the
States a Barton XP2500 can still be found for $64.
http://www.buyaib.com/amdatxp251sb.html

thank god for the american economy then, it's about £120 for a decent 64
here, and anyway i never said that it would not work and not perform on a
32bit OS, i just feel as though there is no point when i do not have the
need for a 64 bit OS, I can pick up and AMD XP3200+ for £80, it is a £40
difference between a AMD64 2800+

I think that socket A still has a few years left as a good seller, they are
very overclockable well they were until AMD stuck up their noses and locked
them

they were very cheap, until AMD decided to release crappy semprons that cost
the same as previous AMD XP's and are generally crapper

XP's are good processors and I for one will probably have another one in the
next two years, that is unless a 64bit OS comes out, and more software and
hardware become sdependant upon the fact that you need a 64bit OS and 6bit
Processor, which when that happens there will be a mass market for the gear,
hence the price will most likely come down to about £90 for a AMD64 2800+

AMD are ahead of the game and i dont like it, they could have kept these 64s
back a bit until the OS technology caught up, now people are out there
buying 64bit processors when they have no need for them, a 32 bit socket A
AMD XP2500+ that has an unlocked multiplier that can be bought for £60 - £70
with a warranty and a stock heatsink that can be OC's to about 2800+ speeds
is a much better option than a un-needed over the top 64 it processor

anyhow it is what people want to do, so let them... AMD have played the
market well, and now look to gain alot of money from it

PS, notice high end AMD FX processors in the UK are retailing at £450...
you can build a very good overclockable system with an XP for that!! i cant
see why home users need to have such powerful processors when there is no
software out there that will run on windows that will utlize the AMD64's
full potential! and when the OS does come out the 64's will be old news
because they have been available for so long, AMD will then be pushing the
FX range for home users, and probably release a newer processor for the top
end industrial user!!

they are just pushing the ££ and $$'s so they make more of it, AMD XP's are
still very useable, more so than pentium 4's! intel havent been pushing
through processors have they, pentium 4 is still a 32 bit processor, and as
an AMD guy i find it unbelievable that intel are for once not cheating
people out of money here and instead AMD are!
 
You might want to get a AMD XP mobil processor, they are unlocked and
yeah but you cant RMA a processor that you tried to OC can you?

Overclocked - why would you tell them that? Might I suggest not mentioning
this if you return something!
 
Gareth Tuckwell said:
Overclocked - why would you tell them that? Might I suggest not mentioning
this if you return something!

hahaha quality, i thought they wouod be able to tell a CPU had had the
multiplier fiddled with or the FSB changed
 
hahaha quality, i thought they wouod be able to tell a CPU had had the
multiplier fiddled with or the FSB changed


If you painted or burnt bridges on the CPU carrier, yes
they could tell, but from motherboard settings, no there is
no way to tell this. Regardless it isn't likely to fry,
need to RMA a CPU unless the cause was something else
outside of what warranty would cover. Inproper heatsink
mounting method or gross overvoltage are two major problems,
just don't do either of those things.
 
thank god for the american economy then, it's about £120 for a decent 64
here, and anyway i never said that it would not work and not perform on a
32bit OS, i just feel as though there is no point when i do not have the
need for a 64 bit OS, I can pick up and AMD XP3200+ for £80, it is a £40
difference between a AMD64 2800+

I think that socket A still has a few years left as a good seller, they are
very overclockable well they were until AMD stuck up their noses and locked
them

Yes they are plenty sufficient for all but the most
demanding of uses, even quite overkill for the most common
surfing/email/office work.

they were very cheap, until AMD decided to release crappy semprons that cost
the same as previous AMD XP's and are generally crapper

AMD clearly has a worthy successor in the A64, when their
production capacity is shifted and fewer Athlon XP/Sempron
Socket A are made, naturally the price will go up. Again it
shouldn't be but a transition period, after which Semprons
will be lower in price, as will A64.
XP's are good processors and I for one will probably have another one in the
next two years, that is unless a 64bit OS comes out, and more software and
hardware become sdependant upon the fact that you need a 64bit OS and 6bit
Processor, which when that happens there will be a mass market for the gear,
hence the price will most likely come down to about £90 for a AMD64 2800+

AMD are ahead of the game and i dont like it, they could have kept these 64s
back a bit until the OS technology caught up, now people are out there
buying 64bit processors when they have no need for them, a 32 bit socket A
AMD XP2500+ that has an unlocked multiplier that can be bought for £60 - £70
with a warranty and a stock heatsink that can be OC's to about 2800+ speeds
is a much better option than a un-needed over the top 64 it processor

Perhaps but at the same time AMD is still a good
price/performance ratio compared to their competition, and
may need set price points to gain profitability... changes
cost $.

anyhow it is what people want to do, so let them... AMD have played the
market well, and now look to gain alot of money from it

PS, notice high end AMD FX processors in the UK are retailing at £450...
you can build a very good overclockable system with an XP for that!! i cant
see why home users need to have such powerful processors when there is no
software out there that will run on windows that will utlize the AMD64's
full potential! and when the OS does come out the 64's will be old news
because they have been available for so long, AMD will then be pushing the
FX range for home users, and probably release a newer processor for the top
end industrial user!!

True but looking even further backwards, most home users
would find a Tualatin Celeron quite usable, even cheaper to
buy and run. At least AMD is focusing on heat, energy usage
more than Intel these days.

they are just pushing the ££ and $$'s so they make more of it, AMD XP's are
still very useable, more so than pentium 4's! intel havent been pushing
through processors have they, pentium 4 is still a 32 bit processor, and as
an AMD guy i find it unbelievable that intel are for once not cheating
people out of money here and instead AMD are!

"Cheating"? Buy whatever you want, AMD is not obligated to
adhere to any particular price-point nor are buyers forced
to choose AMD. There are still a few Athlon XP floating
around the channels, though of course the lower the cost the
faster they'll sell out, if you want them badly then you
might seek and buy what you can, while you can.
 
AMD personnel will not check the processor that close. They don't have the
time. They will do a quick check for the obvious and them send out a new
one. Better PR that way. Now they are locking the multipliers to lower
there return rates.
As you know it does not cost AMD 100.00 to make a 2500+ processor more like
30.00 or less so there are not out as much as the retailer.
 
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