School Network

[GarvieS]

Hi our art dept has 6 machines, these at present are not networked, we would
like to network them, only 1 machine at present has internet access via the
schools main network, using the proxy server.

We would like to each class could logon e.g. username: yr11 and access all
the work they have done on any machine, does this require a server, if so
what is the best OS?

Also network infrastructure - cables, etc, how easy is it to setup, what is
needed, cheapest place to buy.

The machines OS are a mixture of windows ME, 98se, 95.We have scanner and
two printers.

Our current budget is 0, we as a dept would be paying out of our own pocket.

Also i have never used linux, but have heard that this is good.

Thanks In Advance

Sam

 

[Ben Pope]

Hi our art dept has 6 machines, these at present are not networked, we
would like to network them, only 1 machine at present has internet access
via the schools main network, using the proxy server.

We would like to each class could logon e.g. username: yr11 and access all
the work they have done on any machine, does this require a server, if so
what is the best OS?

If you want roaming profiles, so that you log into any machine and get your
own desktop... you'll likely need a Windows Server OS. If you just want to
be able to access, say, a drive, with your logon details giving access to a
directory, this is much easier.

Also network infrastructure - cables, etc, how easy is it to setup, what
is needed, cheapest place to buy.

A hub and cables long enough to reach each machine. Plug them all together.

The machines OS are a mixture of windows ME, 98se, 95.We have scanner and
two printers.

Our current budget is 0, we as a dept would be paying out of our own
pocket.

Also i have never used linux, but have heard that this is good.

Linux is excellent, but not easy to set up properly. It's also free. It
will allow you to set up samba, which is exactly what you need to allow
windows to access drive space on the Linux box. With it set up correctly,
you can map each user to their own space.

You can also set up either Windows or Linux to allow the other machines
access to the internet. Alternatively, you could plug the cable to the rest
of the school network into the hub, along with the 6 machines and allow the
existing network take care of connecting them (this may require the sysadmin
to push some buttons, or may not). Do you not have a Network Administrator
on site that could set this up for you? Who administrates the network?

Ben

 

[Zebedee]

In a word: SME Linux. - designed as a server Linux. Can be run on a P90 with
10 users

--
Yours

Zebedee

(Claiming asylum in an attempt
to escape paying his debts to
Dougal and Florence)

 

[Neadhyl Wroller]

Hi our art dept has 6 machines, these at present are not networked, we would
like to network them, only 1 machine at present has internet access via the
schools main network, using the proxy server.

We would like to each class could logon e.g. username: yr11 and access all
the work they have done on any machine, does this require a server, if so
what is the best OS?

Also network infrastructure - cables, etc, how easy is it to setup, what is
needed, cheapest place to buy.

The machines OS are a mixture of windows ME, 98se, 95.We have scanner and
two printers.

Our current budget is 0, we as a dept would be paying out of our own pocket.

Also i have never used linux, but have heard that this is good.

Thanks In Advance

Sam

For a server you should go for Linux just about any distro would do,
Zebedee mentioned SME I have no experience of it but looking at the
Linux emporium web site
http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/products/specialist/ it fits the bill
very nicely. Another good source of Linux info is
http://www.distrowatch.com/.


As for hardware you will need a hub either 10baseT or 100baseT
these are very cheap but I am sure some parent will have an old 8 port
10baseT hub sitting doing nothing.
For network cards (nics) Realtek RL8139 can be found for under 5
pounds (if stuck look on ebay), I always advise anyone setting up a
network to have a couple of spares in stock so for 6 computers get 8 cards.

Patch Cables and Cabling kits with instructions can be bought from the
larger B&Q superstores at a very reasonable price.

Also it is adviseable to get as much memory in each PC as you can - an
appeal to parents might get memory that has been displaced by bigger
chips durring an upgrade.

 

[Guy Harrison]

Hi our art dept has 6 machines, these at present are not networked, we
would like to network them, only 1 machine at present has internet access
via the schools main network, using the proxy server.
Samba

We would like to each class could logon e.g. username: yr11 and access all
the work they have done on any machine, does this require a server, if so
what is the best OS?

Unix, so that you can run samba.

Also network infrastructure - cables, etc, how easy is it to setup, what
is needed, cheapest place to buy.

Hub, cables and 100Mb network cards for each machine that doesn't have one
that fast. Windows print jobs can produce a lot of data, certainly a
scanner will. Don't get bleeding edge kit. Older kit is more reliable and
better tested. It is also substantially cheaper. Don't pay more than a
fiver for a 100Mb ethernet card for instance.

The machines OS are a mixture of windows ME, 98se, 95.We have scanner and
two printers.

Win95 is crap at networking. Perhaps this machine is the candidate for
running unix? Depends on how ancient it is and/or if it needs an upgrade.
For example, a 64Mb PII/200 with some kind of UDMA hard disk interface plus
big disk will easily serve 6 machines (and then some). More ram is better.
If the mobo takes PC100 ram or newer it'll be cheap to upgrade. The amount
of data being shifted by your roaming profiles will dictate how much ram is
needed - up to a point: the network bandwidth places an upper limit.

Our current budget is 0, we as a dept would be paying out of our own
pocket.

Any unix OS that runs samba is a candidate.

Also i have never used linux, but have heard that this is good.

It is. You might want to try an end-user distro on a spare machine if you've
one that reasonably powerful. Keep trying different distros until you find
one that's to your liking. They tend to differ more in how things are
installed/arranged/orientated than anything else. A PIII with 200Mb ram
will suffice for testing a distro with an X server (graphics). Note that
your resultant server will NOT require X. A machine without X will require
much less ram and perform substantially better. This is how you'll want
your samba machine at the end of the day. Note that just because you
install X doesn't mean you're forced to use it. X can be killed off. It's
isn't integral to the OS like windows. This means you can practice setting
up a samba box.

Obviously you'll be learning all this stuff yourself. The curve is steep but
worth it. A windows based server costs money to set up and more in both
time & money to maintain. A properly configured unix box can run forever.
If bandwidth permits I'd go for creating your own subnet. That is, only the
unix box can see the school network: all your windows boxes talk via the
unix box...

<fixed font>

School-network-socket
^
|
unix
|
+---------+--------+
A B hub C D ...

....whereas this arrangement...

School-network-socket
^
|
hub
|
+---------+--------+
A B unix C D ...

</fixed font>

....could cause a clash with school IT dept philosophy. The former is not
only easier to administer, you also have complete control over it.
Moreover, should the school network ever go down, your subnet will continue
to work.

 

[Bernard Peek]

Hi our art dept has 6 machines, these at present are not networked, we would
like to network them, only 1 machine at present has internet access via the
schools main network, using the proxy server.

We would like to each class could logon e.g. username: yr11 and access all
the work they have done on any machine, does this require a server, if so
what is the best OS?

It depends.

You could set up a peer-to-peer network with no central password
control. That just requires networking hardware in the existing
machines. But if someone starts to use files stored on a machine then
anyone working at that machine will notice it slowing down. That might
be OK for what you need to do.

You might want a central file storage machine, which requires a server
but not necessarily a special server OS. You could get away with an
ordinary desktop OS. Or you could use Linux for that, but you need to
understand that this could create problems further down the line. Those
problems are quite rare but that's no consolation if you hit them.

If you want one central system to maintain all of the User-IDs,
passwords and access-rights then you probably need a server OS. Windows
2003 Server or Linux would do it.

Also network infrastructure - cables, etc, how easy is it to setup, what is
needed, cheapest place to buy.

The hardware is relatively easy to set up. Put a network card in each
machine and wire them all up to a hub or switch. For 6 machines it
probably makes little difference whether you choose a hub or a switch.
If you have a spare port on the hub then you could also connect all of
the machines to the main school network, if this is permitted.

The machines OS are a mixture of windows ME, 98se, 95.We have scanner and
two printers.

Our current budget is 0, we as a dept would be paying out of our own pocket.

Also i have never used linux, but have heard that this is good.

Linux can be set up as a server. It will run a program called SAMBA
which enables it to hold a central copy of all of the user IDs and
passwords.

Linux is quite different to Windows and it takes a bit of adjustment to
understand how it does things. Unless there are at least two
staff-members prepared to do some homework and learn Linux then I
wouldn't recommend it. You will get the educational discount on Windows
server software so consider that route instead.

 

[Andrew Welham]

Hi our art dept has 6 machines, these at present are not networked, we would
like to network them, only 1 machine at present has internet access via the
schools main network, using the proxy server.

We would like to each class could logon e.g. username: yr11 and access all
the work they have done on any machine, does this require a server, if so
what is the best OS?

Also network infrastructure - cables, etc, how easy is it to setup, what is
needed, cheapest place to buy.

The machines OS are a mixture of windows ME, 98se, 95.We have scanner and
two printers.

Our current budget is 0, we as a dept would be paying out of our own pocket.

Also i have never used linux, but have heard that this is good.

Thanks In Advance

Sam

I keep seeing people recommend Linux to some one who openly admits they
know nothing about the OS. Linux is a form of Unix and as anyone who
knows about Unix will say is not that easy to learn.

Linux is great but is not as easy as MS.

Andrew

 

[CJT]

I keep seeing people recommend Linux to some one who openly admits they
know nothing about the OS. Linux is a form of Unix and as anyone who
knows about Unix will say is not that easy to learn.

Linux is great but is not as easy as MS.

Andrew

Personally, I think they're similar in difficulty. They both require a
base of knowledge. If you already know one or the other, then you have
that base and that one will seem easier. If you start fresh, though,
either will seem hard.

Both have quirks. Neither is trivial. The newsgroups are littered with
posts from people having problems trying to do allegedly simple things.

 

[C. P. Ewe]

I keep seeing people recommend Linux to some one who openly admits they
know nothing about the OS. Linux is a form of Unix and as anyone who
knows about Unix will say is not that easy to learn.

Linux is great but is not as easy as MS.

Andrew

It took most computer techs 4 years to learn the tricks involved in
keeping windows 95/98 stable when it replaced Windows 3.x lots of
really obscure undocumented tricks hat weren't in the Windows
certification course, some were simple things like copying the cab files
to a directory on the HD and installing from there. Since then MS have
unleashed major changes with each version and sub version of Windows,
setting up a Windows server secure enough for a school environment is
neither easy or cheap and demands a decently powerful PC, and thats
before we tackle the problem of Windows viruess and other malware.

In contrast most modern Linux distros will install from CD with a ready
made SAMBA server for a network of Windows clients, all that is
required to to set up directory, users and groups structures all of
which can be done without going near the command line. The fact the
Linux isn't Windows is actually an advantage in such a situation it is
an added protection from viruses and simple curiosity hacking neither
of which are exactly unknown in a school environment.
We are not talking of setting up a server secure enough for GCHQ but one
that will function well enough within the context to deliver the goods
with a lot less hassle and/or cost than trying to get a Windows non
server version to work and most importantly without needing the OS
reinsinstalled every fornight because some young lad has stuck a virus
infected floppy in a clients A drive.


I am not a Linux extremist that is trying to push Linux on to every home
users Windows PC, for a lot of reasons I think the time for that has
not yet come I actually think Windows 98se/Me/NT4/2000 were pretty good
for home use IF protected against viruses and hacking (note that having
praised these earlier versions of Windows my views on Xp Home are
unprintable) but where a simple locost server is require there is no
substitute for Linux or a related operating system.

 

[Bruce Richardson]

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.ms-windows.networking.windows.]

I keep seeing people recommend Linux to some one who openly admits they
know nothing about the OS. Linux is a form of Unix and as anyone who
knows about Unix will say is not that easy to learn.

In fact, at least one of the Linux distributions recommended (E-Smith)
is extremely easy to learn as it has a very simple installation
procedure and is entirely managed though a simple web interface.

Linux and Windows are both general-purpose operationg systems and when
approached in that manner, Windows is certainly easer to learn.
However, Linux definitely scores when it comes to a range of specialised
roles (as here) because it is much easier to customise and strip down.
There is a significant number of specialist Linux distributions like
this, developed by people with advanced technical skills but easily
usable by people with more modest skills.

 

[Rob Morley]

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.ms-windows.networking.windows.]

I keep seeing people recommend Linux to some one who openly admits they
know nothing about the OS. Linux is a form of Unix and as anyone who
knows about Unix will say is not that easy to learn.

In fact, at least one of the Linux distributions recommended (E-Smith)
is extremely easy to learn as it has a very simple installation
procedure and is entirely managed though a simple web interface.

Linux and Windows are both general-purpose operationg systems and when
approached in that manner, Windows is certainly easer to learn.
However, Linux definitely scores when it comes to a range of specialised
roles (as here) because it is much easier to customise and strip down.
There is a significant number of specialist Linux distributions like
this, developed by people with advanced technical skills but easily
usable by people with more modest skills.

Agreed. Except that E-Smith is now SME Server (available at
www.contribs.org when the server's not down).

 

[deKay]

Soni tempori elseu romani yeof helsforo nisson ol sefini ill des Sun, 13 Jun
2004 19:14:48 +0100, sefini jorgo geanyet des mani yeof do
uk.comp.home-networking, yawatina tan reek esk Andrew Welham

I keep seeing people recommend Linux to some one who openly admits they
know nothing about the OS. Linux is a form of Unix and as anyone who
knows about Unix will say is not that easy to learn.

Linux is no easier or harder to learn than Windows. The main difficulty is
that Linux is *different*, and so someone transferring from one to the other
will feel it is harder. Someone starting from scratch will find Linux just as
easy as they would Windows.

Linux is great but is not as easy as MS.

Now that I have learnt both, and use both on a daily basis, I'd have to
disagree. In fact, at work a few years ago, I set up a Linux machine in the
staffroom. Nobody even realised it wasn't Windows.

Also, do you mean "easier" in a user role, or in an admin role? As a
workstation, or as a server? At the desktop or on the command line?

deKay

 

[Andrew Welham]

Soni tempori elseu romani yeof helsforo nisson ol sefini ill des Sun, 13 Jun
2004 19:14:48 +0100, sefini jorgo geanyet des mani yeof do
uk.comp.home-networking, yawatina tan reek esk Andrew Welham



Linux is no easier or harder to learn than Windows. The main difficulty is
that Linux is *different*, and so someone transferring from one to the other
will feel it is harder. Someone starting from scratch will find Linux just as
easy as they would Windows.




Now that I have learnt both, and use both on a daily basis, I'd have to
disagree. In fact, at work a few years ago, I set up a Linux machine in the
staffroom. Nobody even realised it wasn't Windows.

Also, do you mean "easier" in a user role, or in an admin role? As a
workstation, or as a server? At the desktop or on the command line?

deKay

Every one here is assuming every thing is GUI driven. This attitude
really annoys me as any decent Unix/Linux admin will know, unix/linux is
at it most flexible if you know its workings and configuration files,
not just relying on the GUI. GUIs help but their not the answer to
everything. This is the major difference between unix/linux and
Microsoft operating systems, Microsoft operating systems are primarily
GUI with some command line where as unix/linux are the opposite.


Andrew

 

[CJT]

Every one here is assuming every thing is GUI driven. This attitude
really annoys me as any decent Unix/Linux admin will know, unix/linux is
at it most flexible if you know its workings and configuration files,
not just relying on the GUI. GUIs help but their not the answer to
everything. This is the major difference between unix/linux and
Microsoft operating systems, Microsoft operating systems are primarily
GUI with some command line where as unix/linux are the opposite.


Andrew

That's part of the reason you see so many cases involving editing the
registry; the GUI is nice for what it does, but it only covers a small
fraction of what's really needed.

 

[C. P. Ewe]

Every one here is assuming every thing is GUI driven. This attitude
really annoys me as any decent Unix/Linux admin will know, unix/linux is
at it most flexible if you know its workings and configuration files,
not just relying on the GUI. GUIs help but their not the answer to
everything. This is the major difference between unix/linux and
Microsoft operating systems, Microsoft operating systems are primarily
GUI with some command line where as unix/linux are the opposite.


Andrew

GUI tools for almost everything in any any recent version major Linux
distro -- but yes if you want do something special you have to use a
file editor but the same is also true of Windows.
Linux is advancing at a terrific pace same cannot be said of Window
which has patches apon patches released almost dailly trying to keep it
something like secure.