Saving a .wmm without compression?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Guest
  • Start date Start date
G

Guest

Hello,

I've made a project in Windows Movie Maker.

I usually use WindowMediaEncoder to create my streams.

Is it possible to open the project in WMencoder?

If not, can someone advise me the correct workflow for saving my project for
streaming? How can I save it with no compression so I can open in WMencoder?

Thank You
Fess
 
This advice is not necessarily the best. Remember that
when comparing DV-AVI and WMV, minimum compression does
not necessarily translate to maximum quality.

This is especially true in light of the recent post
by Dean Rowe, where he revealed a major quality
flaw (IMO) in the filter graph that MM uses to
render DV-AVI movies.

--
-Bob
_______________________________
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP Media Center Edition
http://www.microsoft.com/ehome
 
This is especially true in light of the recent post
by Dean Rowe, where he revealed a major quality
flaw (IMO) in the filter graph that MM uses to
render DV-AVI movies.
Click to expand...

Hi Bob, please note that this flaw affects only still pictures. For Video
that is captured in DV AVI, keeping it in the same format after editing
would still be best solution for quality.


Best regards.

--
Rehan
MS MVP -- Digital Media
www.rehanfx.org - get transitions and effects for Windows Movie Maker
 
Rehan,
Hi Bob, please note that this flaw affects only still pictures. For Video
that is captured in DV AVI, keeping it in the same format after editing
would still be best solution for quality.
Click to expand...

This is what Dean wrote:

*************************************************************
When we save to DV-AVI we're assuming that you're ultimately
targeting playback on a regular television as opposed to a
computer monitor. Consequently when we're saving to DV-AVI we
actually put a filter in the graph that ensures all colors
are NTSC safe and it also slightly blurs the image. This is
deliberate so that the image doesn't flicker so much on a
regular TV. Of course this makes it look worse when you're
looking at the result on a computer display, which is
typically of a higher quality than a TV.
**************************************************************

"... it also slightly blurs the image."

I don't see anything that would lead you to believe that
the "blur filter" is only used for rendering still pictures,
but not video. That doesn't even make sense to me.

That is totally unacceptable IMHO when rendering to DV-AVI.
I have always observed that the quality of the DV-AVI that MM
creates is of (slightly) lower quality than the DV-AVI that
was rendered by my miniDV camcorder. But I never understood
why. Thanks to Dean's explanation, now I understand.

If you have other information that leads you to conclude
that a different filter graph is used based on the input
media, please provide it. Otherwise, I'll stand by my
original comments. Thanks.

--
-Bob
_______________________________
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP Media Center Edition
http://www.microsoft.com/ehome
 
You mean, Thanks to Al Stu for forcing the issue and revealing the truth of
course.

--
John Kelly
www.the-kellys.org
Truthfully, I am not an Instant Expert, But I know someone who is going to
have to try a LOT harder
\|||/
(oo)
----------ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------
All material gained from other sources is duly acknowledged. No Value is
obtained by publishing in any format other peoples work
 
Hi Bob,

Yes, I agree, but I'm not ready to take the recent interesting discussions
and recommend something other DV-AVI for the best quality in the generic
case.

Even with how MM renders DV-AVI movies, I don't have an alternate 'one size
fits all' recommendation...

If it's a WMV, then what profile? I can't recommend any of the standard
profiles that come with Movie Maker over the my two beta profiles (NTSC and
PAL) on the Saving Movies > Custom WMV Profiles page of my site. I still
consider them as beta profiles.

--
PapaJohn

Movie Maker 2 and Photo Story 3 website - http://www.papajohn.org
tips and tricks: http://www.simplydv.co.uk/simplyBB/viewtopic.php?t=4693
Online Newsletters: http://www.windowsmoviemakers.net/PapaJohn/Index.aspx
 
Hi Bob
I don't see anything that would lead you to believe that
the "blur filter" is only used for rendering still pictures,
but not video. That doesn't even make sense to me.
Click to expand...


I agree that the quoted statement of Dean did not make it clear whether the
filter is applied for everyhting or just the stills. However the thread in
which this statement was made was specifically for still images. Furthermore
the stills are treated differently already by assuming that these are made
up of square pixels always, while a source video is assessed for non-square
pixels as well...

Nevertheless I have asked Dean directly and received confirmation that the
filter is specific for the stills. Here is his reply to my question:

From: "Dean Rowe"
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 10:59 PM
Subject: RE: DV AVI blurring filter
Click to expand...
It is specific to still images; we don't use it on video as that would be
very bad :-)
Cheers
Dean.

-----Original Message-----
Click to expand...


--
Rehan
MS MVP -- Digital Media
www.rehanfx.org - get transitions and effects for Windows Movie Maker
 
Thanks for the follow-up, Rehan. I'm happy to be
wrong in this case. :-)

However, depending on the source material, I'm still not
convinced that DV-AVI is _always_ the best choice as
an intermediate format.

If the source material is non-interlaced, for example,
and the final production is also going to be non-interlaced,
then I think that saving to an interlaced format such
as DV-AVI may actually hurt the quality of the final
movie.

But then again, as PapaJohn said, it still might be the
best option that's "available in Movie Maker" without
using a custom profile.

Thanks again!

--
-Bob
_______________________________
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP Media Center Edition
http://www.microsoft.com/ehome
 
Thanks for the response everyone,


1more question:

Is it possible to use a Windows Media Encoder .prx (profile) in WMM?

thanks
Fess
 
I know this has been discussed a lot here lately and really that's a good
thing for all of our knowledge.
As far as my own opinion and what I generally recommend it always depends on
what the final step is going to be for the user, whether the movie will end
up on a DVD or just to view on a computer.
So I did a test to make up my own mind.
I created a complex project with many transitions and sharp images as well
as audio.
I saved the project as a High Quality NTSC.
I saved the project again as a DV-AVI.
The NTSC video was obviously considerably smaller in size than the DV-AVI.
There also was no apparent quality differences between the two when viewed
in Media Player or WinAMP.
So I burned them both to a DVD.
Here's where the difference came in.
The NTSC video had spots where it was pixilated, the transitions were
choppy, and there were very obvious audio glitches.
The DV-AVI video played perfectly with excellent video quality, no
choppiness at all, and perfectly seamless audio.
So for me the recommendation is to use DV-AVI if the final result is to
create a DVD and High Quality NTSC if it is not.
-Wojo
 
Wojo said:
I know this has been discussed a lot here lately and really that's a
good thing for all of our knowledge.
As far as my own opinion and what I generally recommend it always
depends on what the final step is going to be for the user, whether
the movie will end up on a DVD or just to view on a computer.
So I did a test to make up my own mind.
I created a complex project with many transitions and sharp images as
well as audio.
I saved the project as a High Quality NTSC.
Click to expand...

You likely saved it as WMV.
"High Quality NTSC" is not a file format.
NTSC is a video standard "High quality NTSC" is likely the name
of one of the preset output formats.
I saved the project again as a DV-AVI.
Click to expand...

Both files were "NTSC". But one was likely WMV and
the other was AVI.
The NTSC video was obviously considerably smaller in size than the
DV-AVI.
Click to expand...

Because the WMV is a much higher compression ratio than
DV-AVI (where the video is compressed the DV standard
of 5:1)
There also was no apparent quality differences between the two when
viewed in Media Player or WinAMP.
Click to expand...

Were you really playing the WMV file, or just viewing from the
timeline?
So I burned them both to a DVD.
Click to expand...

You can't burn an AVI file to a DVD Video Disc.
DVD Video is MPEG2 by definition. If you really burned
an AVI file to a DVD disk, then it was a DVD Data Disc
and is not playable in a standalone DVD player.
Here's where the difference came in.
The NTSC video had spots where it was pixilated, the transitions were
choppy, and there were very obvious audio glitches.
Click to expand...

All common artifacts of compression.

The DV-AVI video played perfectly with excellent video quality, no
choppiness at all, and perfectly seamless audio.
Click to expand...

One of the reasons people prefer DV-AVI for original capture,
editing, special effects, and archiving. Converting to WMV or
to MPEG2 (for DVD video discs) is an irreversable degradation
which is necessry to distribute the video in a managable size.
So for me the recommendation is to use DV-AVI if the final result is
to create a DVD and High Quality NTSC if it is not.
Click to expand...

Indeed, saving as WMV for an ultimate destination of video DVD
is asking for trouble. The video must be DE-coded out of WMV
and then RE-coded back into MPEG2 for the DVD format.

Saving as DV-AVI preserves the highest quality for subsequent
editing, processing, and release format conversion.
 
Well if Microsoft Windows Movie Maker Team would get their act together and
provide an update that fixes the 27th frame drop and allows turning off the
DV-AVI filter much of all this would be a mute.

How about it MWMMT? How about making our lives a little easier instead of
more complicated for a change.

--

Al Stu - MVP
When choosing between two evils, always choose the evil you know.



Copyright © 2005, Al Stu (2348410). All Rights Reserved.
 
Back
Top