router problem?

[Jo-Anne]

I'm using Windows XP, fully updated. For a while I've been unable to connect
my laptop wirelessly to my network (I have a wireless router). However, it
works when plugged in to the router. I recently discovered that my netbook,
which appeared to connect wirelessly, was actually using someone else's
unsecured network. My local ISP suggested that I unplug the modem, unplug
the router, wait 30 seconds, plug in the modem, and then, after the DSL
light came on, plug in the router. I did all that, but the situation remains
the same.

Any suggestions?

Thank you!

Jo-Anne

 

[Paul]

I'm using Windows XP, fully updated. For a while I've been unable to connect
my laptop wirelessly to my network (I have a wireless router). However, it
works when plugged in to the router. I recently discovered that my netbook,
which appeared to connect wirelessly, was actually using someone else's
unsecured network. My local ISP suggested that I unplug the modem, unplug
the router, wait 30 seconds, plug in the modem, and then, after the DSL
light came on, plug in the router. I did all that, but the situation remains
the same.

Any suggestions?

Thank you!

Jo-Anne

So don't you have to be "pro-active", go into the netbook,
find the application that controls which network you connect
to wirelessly, find *your* router, and connect to that ?

How is unplugging the other equipment, going to cause a
"miracle" on the netbook ?

You need to take control. You're supposed to be "steering"
the netbook, not letting it drive If your Wifi network
is secured, it should be taking some extra work on your
part, on the netbook, to get it connected. (I.e. keys
or passwords to enter)

Now, if you've tried to connect to your own wireless
network, using some application on the netbook, then
you should phrase the question that way. Indicate
what tool you would normally use on the netbook to
set up Wifi (like Zeroconf or some proprietary
tool provided with the netbook), and ask a question
about the specifics of that.

The reason you don't want to connect to a stranger's
Wifi network, is they can "sniff" your packets,
extract bank passwords or credit card numbers and
so on. That is also one of the reasons, it isn't wise
to connect to "free" proxy sites you sometimes
see advertised in newsgroups. Such proxy servers
can be the tools of evil minds - bent on stealing
"WOW gold" or the like.

Paul

 

[Jo-Anne]

So don't you have to be "pro-active", go into the netbook,
find the application that controls which network you connect
to wirelessly, find *your* router, and connect to that ?

How is unplugging the other equipment, going to cause a
"miracle" on the netbook ?

You need to take control. You're supposed to be "steering"
the netbook, not letting it drive If your Wifi network
is secured, it should be taking some extra work on your
part, on the netbook, to get it connected. (I.e. keys
or passwords to enter)

Now, if you've tried to connect to your own wireless
network, using some application on the netbook, then
you should phrase the question that way. Indicate
what tool you would normally use on the netbook to
set up Wifi (like Zeroconf or some proprietary
tool provided with the netbook), and ask a question
about the specifics of that.

The reason you don't want to connect to a stranger's
Wifi network, is they can "sniff" your packets,
extract bank passwords or credit card numbers and
so on. That is also one of the reasons, it isn't wise
to connect to "free" proxy sites you sometimes
see advertised in newsgroups. Such proxy servers
can be the tools of evil minds - bent on stealing
"WOW gold" or the like.

Paul

With your prodding, I tried again to get at least the laptop connected
wirelessly--and I succeeded. (I needed to input some numbers from the bottom
of the router. Why, I don't know, since it had been working properly til
around mid-November.)

However, I still can't connect with the netbook. What's happening at this
point is that although I appear to be connected to my own wireless network,
I'm stuck at "Acquiring network address." I opened Network Connections,
double-clicked on Wireless Network Connection, and the Status is always the
above. Packets are being sent and received, but I'm not connected. Any idea
of what I should try next?

Thank you!

Jo-Anne

 

[Paul]

With your prodding, I tried again to get at least the laptop connected
wirelessly--and I succeeded. (I needed to input some numbers from the bottom
of the router. Why, I don't know, since it had been working properly til
around mid-November.)

However, I still can't connect with the netbook. What's happening at this
point is that although I appear to be connected to my own wireless network,
I'm stuck at "Acquiring network address." I opened Network Connections,
double-clicked on Wireless Network Connection, and the Status is always the
above. Packets are being sent and received, but I'm not connected. Any idea
of what I should try next?

Thank you!

Jo-Anne

You could work through some of the ideas here.

http://www.wirelessforums.org/network-troubleshooting/acquiring-network-address-problem-5153.html

Before reading that, my initial impression, is the DHCP server didn't have
an address to give. Some DHCP servers have an address range value - I used
to keep mine set at 4 for example, so my DHCP server in the router, would
cycle through a fairly small pool of 4 addresses. But it looks like that error message
is more indicative that it simply isn't getting through all the way. That's
why the first suggestion is to change the SSID (which will likely screw up the
other machines), and try to set it up again.

If packets really were getting through, and weren't being rejected, then
it couid be a setting on the router for DHCP that isn't quite right.

Paul

 

[Jo-Anne]

You could work through some of the ideas here.

http://www.wirelessforums.org/network-troubleshooting/acquiring-network-address-problem-5153.html

Before reading that, my initial impression, is the DHCP server didn't have
an address to give. Some DHCP servers have an address range value - I used
to keep mine set at 4 for example, so my DHCP server in the router, would
cycle through a fairly small pool of 4 addresses. But it looks like that
error message
is more indicative that it simply isn't getting through all the way.
That's
why the first suggestion is to change the SSID (which will likely screw up
the
other machines), and try to set it up again.

If packets really were getting through, and weren't being rejected, then
it couid be a setting on the router for DHCP that isn't quite right.

Paul

Thank you again, Paul! This is going to require more work, I'm afraid. I
read the ideas on the forum, but I'll have to gear myself up to trying them.
I had no idea wireless connections could get so complicated. I guess I
should start with my router's manual. Time to learn what I'm up against.

Jo-Anne

 

[Paul]

Thank you again, Paul! This is going to require more work, I'm afraid. I
read the ideas on the forum, but I'll have to gear myself up to trying them.
I had no idea wireless connections could get so complicated. I guess I
should start with my router's manual. Time to learn what I'm up against.

Jo-Anne

They mention a Network Diagnostic tool on this page.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/networking/expert/russel_diagnostics.mspx

About 75% down the page, there is a section on wireless.

"its real strength is in wireless networking, an area that
still causes more network problems than any other"

"Network Diagnostic tool"

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/914440/en-us

There is no guarantee it's going to help, but it might
give you some ideas.

Paul

 

[Yousuf Khan]

With your prodding, I tried again to get at least the laptop connected
wirelessly--and I succeeded. (I needed to input some numbers from the bottom
of the router. Why, I don't know, since it had been working properly til
around mid-November.)

However, I still can't connect with the netbook. What's happening at this
point is that although I appear to be connected to my own wireless network,
I'm stuck at "Acquiring network address." I opened Network Connections,
double-clicked on Wireless Network Connection, and the Status is always the
above. Packets are being sent and received, but I'm not connected. Any idea
of what I should try next?

Thank you!

Some wireless adapters don't seem to support every form of encryption,
even though all options are presented to you as if they are supported.
For example, some adapters don't support WPA2, but do support WPA1. Some
support only either the AES or the TKIP encryption under WPA, but not
both. Others don't support any WPA at all, and only support the older
WEP encryption.

I'd suggest going back to completely unsecured wireless, test it out. If
that works, then go slowly up the sophistication chain, try WEP next,
then WPA1 and then WPA2. You might have to reboot the netbook between
tests to get it to recognize the new security settings. If you find that
it works only under WEP, but not under WPA, then you'll be stuck with
WEP. WEP is not great security, but it's better than no security at all.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Jo-Anne]

They mention a Network Diagnostic tool on this page.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/networking/expert/russel_diagnostics.mspx

About 75% down the page, there is a section on wireless.

"its real strength is in wireless networking, an area that
still causes more network problems than any other"

"Network Diagnostic tool"

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/914440/en-us

There is no guarantee it's going to help, but it might
give you some ideas.

Paul

Thank you again, Paul! I'll check them out this weekend. One question,
though: Is there any way I can start over with the netbook? That is, can I
delete everything related to the router and set things up from scratch?

Jo-Anne

 

[Jo-Anne]

Some wireless adapters don't seem to support every form of encryption,
even though all options are presented to you as if they are supported. For
example, some adapters don't support WPA2, but do support WPA1. Some
support only either the AES or the TKIP encryption under WPA, but not
both. Others don't support any WPA at all, and only support the older WEP
encryption.

I'd suggest going back to completely unsecured wireless, test it out. If
that works, then go slowly up the sophistication chain, try WEP next, then
WPA1 and then WPA2. You might have to reboot the netbook between tests to
get it to recognize the new security settings. If you find that it works
only under WEP, but not under WPA, then you'll be stuck with WEP. WEP is
not great security, but it's better than no security at all.

Yousuf Khan

Thank you, Yousuf! The confusing thing is that the netbook worked fine with
this router for about a year. It's only recently that it started giving me
trouble. Question: How would I go back to completely unsecured wireless?
Where do I start? In fact, as I just asked Paul, is there a way to start
over from scratch? I know that I managed to connect the netbook to my router
wirelessly when I bought the netbook. If I can start over, maybe I can get
back what I lost.

Jo-Anne

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Thank you, Yousuf! The confusing thing is that the netbook worked fine with
this router for about a year. It's only recently that it started giving me
trouble. Question: How would I go back to completely unsecured wireless?
Where do I start? In fact, as I just asked Paul, is there a way to start
over from scratch? I know that I managed to connect the netbook to my router
wirelessly when I bought the netbook. If I can start over, maybe I can get
back what I lost.

Jo-Anne

Well, it usually involves pointing your web browser at your network
router, and then using its web-based administrative interface. I don't
know what brand of router you have, but it's usually the same method in
all cases.

What you have to do is connect one of your computers directly via wire
(i.e. Ethernet connection) to the router. Then you would determine the
network address of the router. Usually you can do that just by finding
"Default Gateway" when do a listing of your local network connection
address(es).

So you would open up a command prompt window on your desktop, by typing
"cmd". Once the command prompt opens up, then you would simply type
"ipconfig", and a bunch of info will show up and you will see the IP
address of your Default Gateway.

You then copy and paste that IP address into your web browser, and it'll
take you to your router's web interface. It'll ask you for a username &
password. The username is usually "admin" or "administrator", and the
password is whatever you may have set it as originally.

Once you enter the administrative interface of the router, then look for
a "Wireless" section in it and click it. Here you will see all of the
security settings and what they are currently set at.

That's all I can tell you in generic router terms. If you need more info
about your specific router, then just google your router make and model,
and "administration".

Yousuf Khan

 

[Paul]

Thank you again, Paul! I'll check them out this weekend. One question,
though: Is there any way I can start over with the netbook? That is, can I
delete everything related to the router and set things up from scratch?

Jo-Anne

I don't know if I can provide a recipe *guaranteed* to reset
everything.

On the one hand, you can go to Device Manager (devmgmt.msc), and
do an "Uninstall". Then, use the "Add Hardware" control panel,
to add it back in again. If I look in Network Connections,
when I just did that for my new network card, it changed
the connection number from 4 to 5. That implies "something
changed".

But a lot of hardware and their settings, tend to be preserved,
even after uninstalling from "Add/Remove" and reinstalling
again. The installers don't remove everything. And that
can be especially problematic, if some setting is out of
range. (That's a problem with graphics cards.)

If you go into the registry, and delete the "ENUM" key, that
would cause all the hardware to be discovered again. And there
is a good chance, all related settings would be turfed. But
that will also result in you needing to do a lot of cleanup work
afterwards. So that wouldn't be my first choice as a recipe.
I've done that before, as a test, on an older OS, and it
seemed to work, but it's not something I'd recommend in
this case, where you only want to reset one thing.

Are you sure you can't enter the settings, with whatever
Networking setup box you were using ? It should allow you
to change security settings. And use WEP or WPA2 or whatever.

"The Windows XP Wireless Zero Configuration Service"
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-ca/library/bb878124.aspx

Apparently, you can use the proprietary software that
came with the Wifi, or WZC. But they probably both
won't be enabled at the same time. You can use "services"
type commands, to turn WZC on and off. But I don't know
about the proprietary stuff, whether it works the same
way.

Paul

 

[Jo-Anne]

I don't know if I can provide a recipe *guaranteed* to reset
everything.

On the one hand, you can go to Device Manager (devmgmt.msc), and
do an "Uninstall". Then, use the "Add Hardware" control panel,
to add it back in again. If I look in Network Connections,
when I just did that for my new network card, it changed
the connection number from 4 to 5. That implies "something
changed".

But a lot of hardware and their settings, tend to be preserved,
even after uninstalling from "Add/Remove" and reinstalling
again. The installers don't remove everything. And that
can be especially problematic, if some setting is out of
range. (That's a problem with graphics cards.)

If you go into the registry, and delete the "ENUM" key, that
would cause all the hardware to be discovered again. And there
is a good chance, all related settings would be turfed. But
that will also result in you needing to do a lot of cleanup work
afterwards. So that wouldn't be my first choice as a recipe.
I've done that before, as a test, on an older OS, and it
seemed to work, but it's not something I'd recommend in
this case, where you only want to reset one thing.

Are you sure you can't enter the settings, with whatever
Networking setup box you were using ? It should allow you
to change security settings. And use WEP or WPA2 or whatever.

"The Windows XP Wireless Zero Configuration Service"
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-ca/library/bb878124.aspx

Apparently, you can use the proprietary software that
came with the Wifi, or WZC. But they probably both
won't be enabled at the same time. You can use "services"
type commands, to turn WZC on and off. But I don't know
about the proprietary stuff, whether it works the same
way.

Paul

Thank you, Paul! This stuff is complex, isn't it! I have a friend who is a
programmer, and even he has trouble with wi-fi. He says that about twice a
month he has to unplug his router, pull the battery (as far as I know, mine
doesn't have one), and then plug everything back in to get it to work again.
I'll start reading the router manual tomorrow and see if I can work it out.

Jo-Anne

 

[Jo-Anne]

Well, it usually involves pointing your web browser at your network
router, and then using its web-based administrative interface. I don't
know what brand of router you have, but it's usually the same method in
all cases.

What you have to do is connect one of your computers directly via wire
(i.e. Ethernet connection) to the router. Then you would determine the
network address of the router. Usually you can do that just by finding
"Default Gateway" when do a listing of your local network connection
address(es).

So you would open up a command prompt window on your desktop, by typing
"cmd". Once the command prompt opens up, then you would simply type
"ipconfig", and a bunch of info will show up and you will see the IP
address of your Default Gateway.

You then copy and paste that IP address into your web browser, and it'll
take you to your router's web interface. It'll ask you for a username &
password. The username is usually "admin" or "administrator", and the
password is whatever you may have set it as originally.

Once you enter the administrative interface of the router, then look for a
"Wireless" section in it and click it. Here you will see all of the
security settings and what they are currently set at.

That's all I can tell you in generic router terms. If you need more info
about your specific router, then just google your router make and model,
and "administration".

Yousuf Khan

Thank you again, Yousuf! As I mentioned to Paul, I'll read the router's
manual tomorrow and see if I can get somewhere that way. I do understand a
little about the IP address, and I'll check that too. I'll report back if I
get the thing to work.

Jo-Anne

 

[Paul]

Thank you, Paul! This stuff is complex, isn't it! I have a friend who is a
programmer, and even he has trouble with wi-fi. He says that about twice a
month he has to unplug his router, pull the battery (as far as I know, mine
doesn't have one), and then plug everything back in to get it to work again.
I'll start reading the router manual tomorrow and see if I can work it out.

Jo-Anne

Many networking devices (like my ADSL modem/router box), have a small
pinhole, with a reset button hidden there. By inserting something
that can press the button, without puncturing or damaging it, you
can reset the box. The user manual, should tell you where to press,
and how long to press, for reset to take place. On some units,
you press the button, while powering up at the same time.

I'd reset the box, if I thought my new Wifi device, didn't support
the same standards, as the existing, working Wifi clients.

But if it appears the specs for your new Wifi device, support WPA2
or whatever the other ones are using, I'd just work on the new laptop
until I got it working. I wouldn't trash the rest of the working
cases, unless there was a good reason.

*******

Many people suffer from "network box insanity", where the box
crashes, or goes nuts. I had a Linksys product, that would
do that *several times a day*. I would power cycle it, like
your programmer friend. I did that for years. Finally, I saw
a new box on sale, for a very good price. I *never* have to
power cycle it. It just works.

One thing I learned in the lab, about such things, is this
can be caused by the quartz crystal plugged into the main
chip in the design. Many designers (myself included), are
putzes when it comes to selecting and specifying quartz
crystals for things like embedded processors. Rather than
learn how, I simple design four-legged oscillator chips
in, instead. They cost more, but they're bulletproof, and
a customer never has to suffer on my account.

(Math, and pictures of the ones I try to avoid
If not done right, these can cause boxes to crash. )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator

The four-legged ones, "take a beating and keep on ticking".
If an insane design used one of these, it would be sane
again. This still has the two legged kind inside, but an
expert in the field, makes sure it works, and all the way from
very low temperatures, to very high temperatures.

http://www.oscilent.com/graphics/Products/Oscillator/crystal_oscillator_8pin_dip.jpg

Paul

 

[Jo-Anne]

Many networking devices (like my ADSL modem/router box), have a small
pinhole, with a reset button hidden there. By inserting something
that can press the button, without puncturing or damaging it, you
can reset the box. The user manual, should tell you where to press,
and how long to press, for reset to take place. On some units,
you press the button, while powering up at the same time.

I'd reset the box, if I thought my new Wifi device, didn't support
the same standards, as the existing, working Wifi clients.

But if it appears the specs for your new Wifi device, support WPA2
or whatever the other ones are using, I'd just work on the new laptop
until I got it working. I wouldn't trash the rest of the working
cases, unless there was a good reason.

*******

Many people suffer from "network box insanity", where the box
crashes, or goes nuts. I had a Linksys product, that would
do that *several times a day*. I would power cycle it, like
your programmer friend. I did that for years. Finally, I saw
a new box on sale, for a very good price. I *never* have to
power cycle it. It just works.

One thing I learned in the lab, about such things, is this
can be caused by the quartz crystal plugged into the main
chip in the design. Many designers (myself included), are
putzes when it comes to selecting and specifying quartz
crystals for things like embedded processors. Rather than
learn how, I simple design four-legged oscillator chips
in, instead. They cost more, but they're bulletproof, and
a customer never has to suffer on my account.

(Math, and pictures of the ones I try to avoid
If not done right, these can cause boxes to crash. )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator

The four-legged ones, "take a beating and keep on ticking".
If an insane design used one of these, it would be sane
again. This still has the two legged kind inside, but an
expert in the field, makes sure it works, and all the way from
very low temperatures, to very high temperatures.

http://www.oscilent.com/graphics/Products/Oscillator/crystal_oscillator_8pin_dip.jpg

Paul

I'll pass this info on to my friend, Paul; and I thank you very much for it.
My router does have a reset, but I've been afraid to cause more trouble by
using it. Since both the laptop and the netbook worked with this router for
a year or more, I don't know why they stopped. Putting in the WPS PIN from
the underside of the router got the laptop back to working. I'll try to
figure out what's happening with the netbook.

Jo-Anne

 

[Yousuf Khan]

I'll pass this info on to my friend, Paul; and I thank you very much for it.
My router does have a reset, but I've been afraid to cause more trouble by
using it. Since both the laptop and the netbook worked with this router for
a year or more, I don't know why they stopped. Putting in the WPS PIN from
the underside of the router got the laptop back to working. I'll try to
figure out what's happening with the netbook.

Jo-Anne

When doing a complete reset of the router, you'll also lose your ISP
network settings that have already been setup on that router. You will
need to write them down before the reset, or at least find the original
ISP settings. You'll need to know your ISP username and password (if
there is one), and also what type of connection protocol is being used
(DHCP, or PPPoE, or static, etc.). If you don't have those, then you'll
need to call up your ISP to ask them for it.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Jo-Anne]

When doing a complete reset of the router, you'll also lose your ISP
network settings that have already been setup on that router. You will
need to write them down before the reset, or at least find the original
ISP settings. You'll need to know your ISP username and password (if there
is one), and also what type of connection protocol is being used (DHCP, or
PPPoE, or static, etc.). If you don't have those, then you'll need to call
up your ISP to ask them for it.

Yousuf Khan

Thank you, Yousuf! I think I have all that information, but I'd better make
sure before trying a reset.

Jo-Anne

 

[Jo-Anne]

However, I still can't connect with the netbook. What's happening at this

point is that although I appear to be connected to my own wireless
network, I'm stuck at "Acquiring network address." I opened Network
Connections, double-clicked on Wireless Network Connection, and the Status
is always the above. Packets are being sent and received, but I'm not
connected. Any idea of what I should try next?

Updates: I finally was able to connect the netbook wirelessly. I
disconnected from my network while it was trying to acquire the network
address. Then, when I had the list of available networks again, I connected.
I had to type in my security key and confirm it, and then all was
well--although it said I had a Manual connection rather than an Automatic
one. Today, however, when I turned on that computer and checked again, the
connection was Automatic.

I also had been having a problem with the laptop wireless connection.
Although I had been able to connect wirelessly by typing in the WPS PIN on
the bottom of the router (not the same as the security key), I couldn't get
a list of available networks.

With the help of a programmer friend in Germany and along the lines of what
was suggested by Paul about the Wireless Zero Configuration Service, I
discovered that the service wasn't "Started." (It needs to be Automatic and
Started.) To start it, I right-clicked on My Computer on the taskbar,
left-clicked on Manage, opened Services and Applications, then Services,
scrolled to the bottom of the list to Wireless Zero Configuration Service,
right-clicked on it, and left-clicked Start. It took three tries to make
"Started" stick (I don't understand why).

Once the service was started, I right-clicked on the Wireless Network
Connection icon in the system tray--and this time, in Properties, I was
offered a tab I hadn't gotten before: Wireless Networks. I opened that tab,
clicked on "Use Windows to configure my wireless network settings," and
clicked on "View Wireless Networks." At that point, my network showed up and
I was able to click on it--and yet again type in the security key. This time
it took two tries. The first time, I connected but the connection dropped
almost immediately. I did the whole procedure again, and the second time it
took.

I THINK everything is functioning normally right now. At least I hope so.

Thank you, Paul and Yousuf!

Jo-Anne

 

[Paul]

Updates: I finally was able to connect the netbook wirelessly. I
disconnected from my network while it was trying to acquire the network
address. Then, when I had the list of available networks again, I connected.
I had to type in my security key and confirm it, and then all was
well--although it said I had a Manual connection rather than an Automatic
one. Today, however, when I turned on that computer and checked again, the
connection was Automatic.

I also had been having a problem with the laptop wireless connection.
Although I had been able to connect wirelessly by typing in the WPS PIN on
the bottom of the router (not the same as the security key), I couldn't get
a list of available networks.

With the help of a programmer friend in Germany and along the lines of what
was suggested by Paul about the Wireless Zero Configuration Service, I
discovered that the service wasn't "Started." (It needs to be Automatic and
Started.) To start it, I right-clicked on My Computer on the taskbar,
left-clicked on Manage, opened Services and Applications, then Services,
scrolled to the bottom of the list to Wireless Zero Configuration Service,
right-clicked on it, and left-clicked Start. It took three tries to make
"Started" stick (I don't understand why).

Once the service was started, I right-clicked on the Wireless Network
Connection icon in the system tray--and this time, in Properties, I was
offered a tab I hadn't gotten before: Wireless Networks. I opened that tab,
clicked on "Use Windows to configure my wireless network settings," and
clicked on "View Wireless Networks." At that point, my network showed up and
I was able to click on it--and yet again type in the security key. This time
it took two tries. The first time, I connected but the connection dropped
almost immediately. I did the whole procedure again, and the second time it
took.

I THINK everything is functioning normally right now. At least I hope so.

Thank you, Paul and Yousuf!

Jo-Anne

A trial by fire

You've kept excellent notes.

And now you're a networking expert.

The having to do things multiple times, is
windows way of saying "Practice makes perfect".

Paul