ripped off or not

  • Thread starter Thread starter minnie
  • Start date Start date
M

minnie

when i brought my computer brand new was i suppose to
recieve the windows xp disk as well. Everyone else seems
to get them when they buy there computers
 
Hi

A computer supplier has to ensure that there is some method of returning the
PC to the same state as it was when you purchased it. This could mean that
there is a hidden partition on your system that needs to be accessed so as
to reinstall XP.
 
HP, Dell, and Gateway (among others) do not provide xp cd's. They provide a
restore set. The xp you get is called an OEM version of xp. The only
guarantee they give you is to restore your computer to how you got it from
them. They are not required to give you a separate xp cd.
 
Colin said:
HP, Dell, and Gateway (among others) do not provide xp cd's. They
provide a restore set. The xp you get is called an OEM version of
xp. The only guarantee they give you is to restore your computer to
how you got it from them. They are not required to give you a
separate xp cd.
Click to expand...

Dell, at least here, always has (still does as of yesterday) provided a Full
Windows CD )OEM of course) with their system upon delivery. Usually there
is also a driver CD, and depending on the configuration, various application
CDs. No special order/request - just asked for "Windows XP" or whatever to
be installed on the system.. Normally a default in selecting the system
from their web page.
 
Dell certainly DOES provide both, a Windows CD and a restore
set. A Gateway salesman told me that Gateway does, but I
have not verified that. My old HP had a restore set of CDs
but no Windows CDS. I have heard that HP and Compaq had used
the hidden partition, but they will supply restore CDs if
pressed. I have also heard that there are methods to burn a
CD from the hidden partition, but I have not done so as a
test since none of my computers have such partitions.

This is another good reason to assemble your own computer
and use CDs from MS.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.


| HP, Dell, and Gateway (among others) do not provide xp
cd's. They provide a
| restore set. The xp you get is called an OEM version of
xp. The only
| guarantee they give you is to restore your computer to how
you got it from
| them. They are not required to give you a separate xp cd.
|
message
| | > when i brought my computer brand new was i suppose to
| > recieve the windows xp disk as well. Everyone else seems
| > to get them when they buy there computers
|
|
 
Dell provided me with an xp cd for my personal computer.
also provided one with every computer in our company.

Tom
| HP, Dell, and Gateway (among others) do not provide xp cd's. They provide
a
| restore set. The xp you get is called an OEM version of xp. The only
| guarantee they give you is to restore your computer to how you got it from
| them. They are not required to give you a separate xp cd.
|
| | > when i brought my computer brand new was i suppose to
| > recieve the windows xp disk as well. Everyone else seems
| > to get them when they buy there computers
|
|
 
No you are not supposed to get an XP CD but if Windows is preinstalled then
you are supposed to get a way to restore your computer to the same state it
was in at time of purchase. That is an agreement made between Microsoft and
the OEM . Some manufacturer's provide either a Recovery Disk set or create a
hidden partition on the drive that can be used to restore from. Recovery
Disks are images of the system state taken at the time the computer was
setup. Running them will simply overwrite what is currently on the system
and bring it back to the same state it was in at time of purchase. They must
be used with the caution that you will lose all current data on the drive
when you run them

Not getting an actual Windows XP CD does not mean you were ripped off but it
does mean that you won't have the same options for running System File
Checker, doing a Repair Install or a Clean Install that an actual XP CD
gives you.

--

Harry Ohrn MS-MVP [Shell/User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp


| when i brought my computer brand new was i suppose to
| recieve the windows xp disk as well. Everyone else seems
| to get them when they buy there computers
 
I'm glad to hear that Dell is doing the right thing. I take it I was
misinformed and apologize. Thanks for the update.
 
In
minnie said:
when i brought my computer brand new was i suppose to
recieve the windows xp disk as well. Everyone else seems
to get them when they buy there computers
Click to expand...


OEM vendors are required by their agreement with Microsoft to
give you a means of reinstalling, should it be necessary. They
can do this in one of three ways:



1. An OEM copy of Windows

2. A restore CD

3. A hidden partition on your drive, with restore information.



If you don't have 1 or 2, you should have 3, but you should
contact your vendor or check your docementation to find out.



Personally, I find both 2 and 3 unacceptable, and would never
choose to buy a computer that came with an operating system
unless I got a complete generic installation CD for that
operating system.
 
I agree with Ken. The ability to do a repair install is by itself worth the
price of the OS.

However, I go one further and refuse to use any OEM disks. Even in the
cases where a new system came with the system installed, I have purchased a
new copy of XP Upgrade and installed fresh (using an old Win98 cd when
requested for a copy of a previous version of windows).

I have gotten essential phone help from Microsoft on enough occasions to
warrant, in my mind, the extra expense of buying a copy of the OS.

Also, an OEM copy is not transferable to another computer and I have gone
through several new computers (nowadays I put my own together) and have
continued to get MS support when I get myself into trouble.

Yes it is extra expense, but I am really pleased with the time and
aggravation I have saved myself. This is just how I feel and I don't expect
others to do things the same way.
 
In
Colin Barnhorst said:
I agree with Ken. The ability to do a repair install is by
itself
worth the price of the OS.
Click to expand...


Thanks, Colin.

However, I go one further and refuse to use any OEM disks.
Even in
the cases where a new system came with the system installed, I
have
purchased a new copy of XP Upgrade and installed fresh (using
an old
Win98 cd when requested for a copy of a previous version of
windows).
Click to expand...


Like you, I would prefer a retail version, but I wouldn't turn
down a generic one (not a customized one) if it came with a
system available at an attractive-enough price. If I wanted to
install cleanly as soon as I got a system, I'd do it with the OEM
version if that's what I had.

I have gotten essential phone help from Microsoft on enough
occasions
to warrant, in my mind, the extra expense of buying a copy of
the OS.
Click to expand...


Personally I've never called Microsoft for help, and always found
that help available in places like this one was at least as good.
But the ability to get support from Microsoft *is* one of the
advantages of a retail version.

Also, an OEM copy is not transferable to another computer and I
have
gone through several new computers (nowadays I put my own
together)
and have continued to get MS support when I get myself into
trouble.
Click to expand...


If I understand you correctly, if you bought a system that came
with a generic OEM copy, you'd immediately also buy a retail
copy. But why not wait to buy the retail copy until you *need* to
transfer it to another computer (especially since that need may
never occur)?

It doesn't always work this way, but more often than not, I tend
to buy a system when a new version of Windows comes out, and keep
it until the next version. So transferability hasn't been an
important issue for me. I've had this system--1.4MHz Athlon,
512MB, 80GB HD--since Windows XP was released and I hope to keep
it for another two years, or until Longhorn is released.


Yes it is extra expense, but I am really pleased with the time
and
aggravation I have saved myself. This is just how I feel and I
don't
expect others to do things the same way.
Click to expand...


Understood, and I'm not trying to persuade you otherwise. I'm
just stating a slightly opposing view. I think we are very close
to agreeing, just not completely.
 
An OEM CD sold by Microsoft for system builders is the same
as a retail CD, except that it doesn't have support and
can't be transferred from system to system. It also costs
half the price, so depending on what you intend to do with
the first computer (junk it, sell it, give it away as a
working computer) it can be cheaper to use MS OEM OS. This
is not the same as using a BIOS locked mfg'r branded OS CD.
And Restore CDs are better than nothing, but not much since
they don't do repair, just a format and new install.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.


|I agree with Ken. The ability to do a repair install is by
itself worth the
| price of the OS.
|
| However, I go one further and refuse to use any OEM disks.
Even in the
| cases where a new system came with the system installed, I
have purchased a
| new copy of XP Upgrade and installed fresh (using an old
Win98 cd when
| requested for a copy of a previous version of windows).
|
| I have gotten essential phone help from Microsoft on
enough occasions to
| warrant, in my mind, the extra expense of buying a copy of
the OS.
|
| Also, an OEM copy is not transferable to another computer
and I have gone
| through several new computers (nowadays I put my own
together) and have
| continued to get MS support when I get myself into
trouble.
|
| Yes it is extra expense, but I am really pleased with the
time and
| aggravation I have saved myself. This is just how I feel
and I don't expect
| others to do things the same way.
|
message
| | > In | > minnie <[email protected]> typed:
| >
| >> when i brought my computer brand new was i suppose to
| >> recieve the windows xp disk as well. Everyone else
seems
| >> to get them when they buy there computers
| >
| >
| > OEM vendors are required by their agreement with
Microsoft to give you a
| > means of reinstalling, should it be necessary. They can
do this in one of
| > three ways:
| >
| >
| >
| > 1. An OEM copy of Windows
| >
| > 2. A restore CD
| >
| > 3. A hidden partition on your drive, with restore
information.
| >
| >
| >
| > If you don't have 1 or 2, you should have 3, but you
should contact your
| > vendor or check your docementation to find out.
| >
| >
| >
| > Personally, I find both 2 and 3 unacceptable, and would
never choose to
| > buy a computer that came with an operating system unless
I got a complete
| > generic installation CD for that operating system.
| >
| >
| > --
| > Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
| > Please reply to the newsgroup
| >
| >
|
|
 
In
Jim Macklin said:
An OEM CD sold by Microsoft for system builders is the same
as a retail CD, except that it doesn't have support and
can't be transferred from system to system.
Click to expand...


And can't do upgrades.
 
True, but since you're not allowed to move an OEM and you
are expected to be building a new computer, does that really
matter. They will do a repair install on the same machine
and that is the issue.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.


message | In | Jim Macklin <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm> typed:
|
| > An OEM CD sold by Microsoft for system builders is the
same
| > as a retail CD, except that it doesn't have support and
| > can't be transferred from system to system.
|
|
| And can't do upgrades.
|
| --
| Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
| Please reply to the newsgroup
|
|
 
minnie said:
when i brought my computer brand new was i suppose to
recieve the windows xp disk as well. Everyone else seems
to get them when they buy there computers
Click to expand...


Legally, the OEM has met it's contractual obligation to Microsoft
by providing a means of returning the PC to its ex-factory state,
whether it's a Recovery CD or a Recovery Partition. They are not
legally obliged to provide a true installation CD as part of the sale.
Reputable, customer-service aware OEMs, like Dell and Gateway, do
provide a full OEM installation CD, that does permit custom
installations and repairs. Many uncaring OEMs, such as Compaq, HP,
and Sony, however, in an effort to save pennies and reduce their
support costs by having to hire support people that can only say "Boot
from the Recovery CD to return your PC to its original condition,"
provide only a CD bearing a disk image of the hard drive as it left
the factory. These Recovery/Restore CDs cannot perform normal
installations, nor can they be used to do any sort of customizations.

Essentially, it boils down to "You get what you pay for."

--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having
both at once. - RAH
 
Colin said:
HP, Dell, and Gateway (among others) do not provide xp cd's. They
provide a restore set. The xp you get is called an OEM version of
xp. The only guarantee they give you is to restore your computer to
how you got it from them. They are not required to give you a
separate xp cd.
Click to expand...


Actually, that's not entirely accurate, depending upon one's
location. For instance, I've never seen a Dell or a Gateway that did
_not_ come with a full OEM installation (not a "Recovery" disk) CD.
Even some HP laptop models come with a full OEM installation CD. I
understand that it's different in Europe, however.

--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having
both at once. - RAH
 
In
Jim Macklin said:
True, but since you're not allowed to move an OEM and you
are expected to be building a new computer, does that really
matter. They will do a repair install on the same machine
and that is the issue.
Click to expand...


Since the rules to buy an OEM version is that it must be sold
with hardware, not necessarily a complete system, many people who
are not building a new computer buy these.

Whether or not they *should* be building a new computer (which is
arguable), many people try to use OEM versions to perform
upgrades and fail. So yes, I think it really matters. It's
important to them that they know and understand that this is a
restriction of the OEM version.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup


message | In | Jim Macklin <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm> typed:
|
| > An OEM CD sold by Microsoft for system builders is the same
| > as a retail CD, except that it doesn't have support and
| > can't be transferred from system to system.
|
|
| And can't do upgrades.
|
| --
| Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
| Please reply to the newsgroup
Click to expand...
 
The times I have purchased a system with an OEM disk was in a traditional
computer store as opposed to a Best Buy type store. In those cases I have
had them deduct the cost from the price and then I have gone across the
street to Best Buy and bought a retail XP. I did not save much on the
deduction, but I just prefer retail xp's. The store I buy hardware from
does not carry the retail packages.
 
To that I agree 100%.


message | In | Jim Macklin <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm> typed:
|
| > True, but since you're not allowed to move an OEM and
you
| > are expected to be building a new computer, does that
really
| > matter. They will do a repair install on the same
machine
| > and that is the issue.
|
|
| Since the rules to buy an OEM version is that it must be
sold
| with hardware, not necessarily a complete system, many
people who
| are not building a new computer buy these.
|
| Whether or not they *should* be building a new computer
(which is
| arguable), many people try to use OEM versions to perform
| upgrades and fail. So yes, I think it really matters. It's
| important to them that they know and understand that this
is a
| restriction of the OEM version.
|
| --
| Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
| Please reply to the newsgroup
|
|
|
| > message | >| In | >| Jim Macklin <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm>
typed:
| >|
| >| > An OEM CD sold by Microsoft for system builders is
the same
| >| > as a retail CD, except that it doesn't have support
and
| >| > can't be transferred from system to system.
| >|
| >|
| >| And can't do upgrades.
| >|
| >| --
| >| Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
| >| Please reply to the newsgroup
|
|
 
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