Riplock - NEC 3540

[Bob]

Does anyone know why the NEC 3540 DVD burner is so slow ripping video
DVDs? It is at least twice as slow as the LiteOn.

I have seen the term "Riplock" in connection with third-party firmware
- it is something that is removed with the new firmware.

What is Riplock, why is the 3540 so slow ripping video DVDs, and how
do I fix it?

Does anyone have experience flashing third-party firmware? What are
the problems? I have a UPS and a new machine so I have a very stable
platform. What could go wrong if I flash third-party firmware?

 

[kony]

Does anyone know why the NEC 3540 DVD burner is so slow ripping video
DVDs? It is at least twice as slow as the LiteOn.

Probably because it has a harder time reading it at high
speed, or perhaps there is copy-pretection and it retries
(intentionally-bad by manufacturer) bad sectors more times
before moving on.

I have seen the term "Riplock" in connection with third-party firmware
- it is something that is removed with the new firmware.

Then try an older firmware?

What is Riplock, why is the 3540 so slow ripping video DVDs, and how
do I fix it?

IMO, a CD/DVD oriented web forum is a great place to get the
most detailed information about specific drive models rather
than a general-purpose hardware newsgroup... and if there
are any specific bios most beneficial, a web-forum would be
likely to have a link to such bios and tools to flash it if
NEC flasher won't.

Does anyone have experience flashing third-party firmware? What are
the problems? I have a UPS and a new machine so I have a very stable
platform. What could go wrong if I flash third-party firmware?

If something went wrong the drive might not work at all. In
worst cases you might not even be able to reflash a
different bios so the drive is trash, or possibly the system
won't boot with the drive connected so you can't reflash
it... you could then try connected to a USB interface if you
had one handy but any particular flasher may not be able to
see drives on it.

Google for some web forums and find firmwares confirmed by
fellow forum members to work, IF that's what you end up
needing to do.

Is this (slow ripping) issue present on ALL DVDs or only
some of them?

 

[Bob]

Probably because it has a harder time reading it at high
speed, or perhaps there is copy-pretection and it retries
(intentionally-bad by manufacturer) bad sectors more times
before moving on.

I ran DVD Decrypter on a brand new DL video DVD (Matrix Reloaded) and
it took only 16.5 minutes to rip the entire 7GB. The time to rip an
old worn video DVD is 32 minutes. By contrast that Sony/LiteOn unit I
returned for the NEC 3540 took around 16 minutes on several old worn
video DVDs.

That may not be all that bad if quality is more important than time.
However, it seems a bit too much to double the time to rip the same
kind of old worn video DVD.

Then try an older firmware?

Riplock is something that is on all NEC drives and some others too.

There is no older firmware for the 3540 - version 1.01 is the one and
only version.

Being new to the wonderful world of DVD technology, I am reluctant to
fool with flashing unofficial firmware. I read that flashing older
firmware, even if it official, can cause problems.

There is a "third-party" firmware available for the 3540 on CDFreaks
but I am waiting for some answers to questions. For example, if the
"new" firmware screws up, can I restore my original firmware? The
answer seems to be Yes but you have to use a pure DOS flasher.

IMO, a CD/DVD oriented web forum is a great place to get the
most detailed information about specific drive models rather
than a general-purpose hardware newsgroup... and if there
are any specific bios most beneficial, a web-forum would be
likely to have a link to such bios and tools to flash it if
NEC flasher won't.

I have posted inquiries on CDFreaks/NEC forum. But I like to consult
the experts on this forum because I have grown to trust them,
especially you. Whenever I challenge you, you come back with a
knowledgable response. There are other knowledgable people on here
too. It never hurts to get as many opinions as possible.

Is this (slow ripping) issue present on ALL DVDs or only
some of them?

See above. It happens only on video DVDs and then only when the disc
is old and worn but not defective.

I believe NEC is being cautious. Maybe if I remove Riplock I can get
better performance without sacrificing quality.

 

[kony]

Riplock is something that is on all NEC drives and some others too.

There is no older firmware for the 3540 - version 1.01 is the one and
only version.

I misread what you meant by "something that is removed with
the new firmware". Could you elaborate more on what you
meant by "removed with the new firmware"? You're referring
to 3rd party firmware with riplock removed?

Being new to the wonderful world of DVD technology, I am reluctant to
fool with flashing unofficial firmware. I read that flashing older
firmware, even if it official, can cause problems.

There is a "third-party" firmware available for the 3540 on CDFreaks
but I am waiting for some answers to questions. For example, if the
"new" firmware screws up, can I restore my original firmware? The
answer seems to be Yes but you have to use a pure DOS flasher.

DOS is good for firmware flashing, if your board will boot
from a thumbdrive that's a nice way to get a quick DOS
environment for flashing (anything) without having to wonder
about the fitness of a floppy... as floppies seem to have
taken a nosedive in quaity over the past few years.

I have posted inquiries on CDFreaks/NEC forum. But I like to consult
the experts on this forum because I have grown to trust them,
especially you. Whenever I challenge you, you come back with a
knowledgable response. There are other knowledgable people on here
too. It never hurts to get as many opinions as possible.

Well I'd try a different firmware... worst case is the drive
is dead afterwards but it's only a $45 part... it's not
likely to end up that bad, un(re)flashable, I'm just putting
worst-case scenario out there. Usually it's no big deal to
flash one and works fine. However, the liteon is known to
be better at reading DVDs than the NEC, it could be you'll
have to wait for NEC to sort out a firmware fix IF there
will be one. Inevitably each drive has it's own strengths
and weaknesses, else there's only be one make putting the
others out of business.

The curious part is that your older DVD takes longer. Often
when a drive reads new CDs slower, it's because it's using a
slower speed and thus, can be beneficial in reading old/poor
discs because the slower speed means less re-reads.

You have both drives though, why not just use the liteon?

See above. It happens only on video DVDs and then only when the disc
is old and worn but not defective.

I believe NEC is being cautious. Maybe if I remove Riplock I can get
better performance without sacrificing quality.

Are you in a hurry to rip?
I usually just throw a disc in and forget about it till long
after it's finished. If you're looking to do
post-processing to it then does the ripping speed even
matter? It tends to take over 16 minutes to reprocess an
entire DVD on any system.

Follow the lead of the folks at the CD/DVD forum, they'll
spending a lot more time on this stuff... ask the author of
the firmware hack any specific questions if you can get
ahold of her/him.

 

[Bob]

Could you elaborate more on what you
meant by "removed with the new firmware"? You're referring
to 3rd party firmware with riplock removed?

Yes, I consider the 3rd party firmware to be newer.

as floppies seem to have
taken a nosedive in quaity over the past few years.

The only floppies I have are old.

Well I'd try a different firmware... worst case is the drive
is dead afterwards but it's only a $45 part.

You're a big spender with my money.

it's not
likely to end up that bad, un(re)flashable, I'm just putting
worst-case scenario out there

That's what everyone does and it's enough scare off someone with no
experience.

Usually it's no big deal to flash one and works fine.

However, the liteon is known to
be better at reading DVDs than the NEC, it could be you'll
have to wait for NEC to sort out a firmware fix IF there
will be one.

The problem is believed to be related to Riplock.

+++

+++


Inevitably each drive has it's own strengths

and weaknesses, else there's only be one make putting the
others out of business.

Yeah, but no one said anything about 32 minute DL rips just because of
some bullshit Riplock.

The curious part is that your older DVD takes longer.

I interpret that to mean that the NEC did not like the surface
condition.

Something is fishy here. I ripped a brand new DL (7GB) video DVD with
Decrypter and it took 16.5 minutes whereas it took twice as long to
rip a worn disc. That seems to say that Riplock is not an issue and
quality is. I read that NEC monitors the quality of reading and
adjusts the laser and the speed to compensate. Maybe the NEC is slower
so that it can produce a higher quality rip.

This is why I do not want to go off half cocked burning hacked
firmware until I get the bottom of this. The Coaster Maker apparently
did not care about quality so it ran faster on poor quality discs -
and therefore rightfully earned its name "The Coaster Maker".

IOW, the best quality rip of a worn disc may be 32 minutes.

You have both drives though, why not just use the liteon?

I returned the Sony/Liteon to buy the NEC. Anyway if the Sony/LiteOn
was not producing quality rips I certainly would not want to use it.

Are you in a hurry to rip?

That is an existential question.

I usually just throw a disc in and forget about it till long
after it's finished. If you're looking to do
post-processing to it then does the ripping speed even
matter? It tends to take over 16 minutes to reprocess an
entire DVD on any system.

I just want to understand what is going on before I do anything like
removing Riplock.

Follow the lead of the folks at the CD/DVD forum, they'll
spending a lot more time on this stuff... ask the author of
the firmware hack any specific questions if you can get
ahold of her/him.

First I must climb to the first plateau of understanding before I can
converse with those people. I am getting there because I am relying on
"information overload leads to pattern recognition" - you may
recognize that as an old McLuhanism.

 

[John]

I ran DVD Decrypter on a brand new DL video DVD (Matrix Reloaded) and
it took only 16.5 minutes to rip the entire 7GB. The time to rip an
old worn video DVD is 32 minutes. By contrast that Sony/LiteOn unit I
returned for the NEC 3540 took around 16 minutes on several old worn
video DVDs.

That may not be all that bad if quality is more important than time.
However, it seems a bit too much to double the time to rip the same
kind of old worn video DVD.



Riplock is something that is on all NEC drives and some others too.

I have to admit I havent done it on my NEC cause I got the MADDOG
version and Im not even sure you can use the hacked firmware on it
anymore. Also the MD version has a 3 year warranty so flashing voids
the warranty and it works well with their firmware.

Anyway have you tried cleaning the DVDs? My avg time is around 15-17
min for a DVD. If the discs are dirty and sometimes you really have to
look at them and really clean them then they rip around 15-17 min. Ive
noticed the recent discs you get can now since there are so many
rental deals cheap tend to be filthy now.

Ive been having more and more problems with reading disks in my
players which I never had before. They often freezeup even in my
Pioneer player and other players before I clean them.

In the past at either CDFreaks or CDRinfo they had a thread in the
forums there about flashing and recovering from a bad flash. There was
a flasher that let you recover from a bad flash using a certain
technique. I dont know if it is possible for your particular model
though since Ive been sticking to Maddog firmware on my current drive.

 

[Bob]

Anyway have you tried cleaning the DVDs?

Nothing elaborate - just a dry cloth wipe which only removes smudges.

My avg time is around 15-17 min for a DVD.

That what it took for a brand new movie DVD, I can live with that. If
you figure 7GB DL and 16.5 minutes, it works out to 5.1x (7,000
KB/sec). What I don't understand about that calculation is that
Riplock is supposed to limit the speed to 4x.

If the discs are dirty and sometimes you really have to
look at them

The old worn discs are pretty messy - nothing disastrous just well
used.

and really clean them then they rip around 15-17 min.

How do you really clean them? I have heard of using lighter fluid
(naptha) but I don't want to destroy the disc.

Ive noticed the recent discs you get can now since there are so many
rental deals cheap tend to be filthy now.

That's what I am running into.

Ive been having more and more problems with reading disks in my
players which I never had before. They often freezeup even in my
Pioneer player and other players before I clean them.

That's one reason I got the 3540 - it is touted as being able to play
*anything*.

In the past at either CDFreaks or CDRinfo they had a thread in the
forums there about flashing and recovering from a bad flash. There was
a flasher that let you recover from a bad flash using a certain
technique. I dont know if it is possible for your particular model
though since Ive been sticking to Maddog firmware on my current drive.

As I understand it you have to Dump your existing firmware. Then if
the flash screws up, you have to run a special DOS flasher from
Dangerous Brothers to restore the original Dumped firmware.

If you manage to restore the original firmware successfully, does that
mean you warranty is not voided?

 

[kony]

How do you really clean them? I have heard of using lighter fluid
(naptha) but I don't want to destroy the disc.

Plain old soap-n-detergent or window cleaner should suffice.
I've seen some tests of various abrasive reconditioners but
at the moment I can't recall where... Google might find it
but offhand I recall it tried a few *unrelated* products
like toothpaste and brasso, and found toothpaste mostly
ineffective but brasso worked fairly well (relative to
anything else, there are no miracles). Seems like every day
there's yet another use for brasso, it also does a very nice
job of prepping heatsink bases and cleaning old contacts- no
good for modern gold plated ones though, takes off too much
gold for anything more than an emergency situation.

 

[Bob]

Plain old soap-n-detergent or window cleaner should suffice.
I've seen some tests of various abrasive reconditioners but
at the moment I can't recall where... Google might find it
but offhand I recall it tried a few *unrelated* products
like toothpaste and brasso, and found toothpaste mostly
ineffective but brasso worked fairly well (relative to
anything else, there are no miracles). Seems like every day
there's yet another use for brasso, it also does a very nice
job of prepping heatsink bases and cleaning old contacts- no
good for modern gold plated ones though, takes off too much
gold for anything more than an emergency situation.

I use Brasso on my switchblade knife collection. I will have to try it
on an old worn DVD.

I want to know how you can rip 7GB in 16.5 minutes if Riplock limits
the read speed to 4x (5,540 KB/sec). I do not think it is Riplock that
causes the 3540 to slow down - it's the NEC being very cautious. That
means the rip is higher quality. After all, that is why I got the NEC
in place of the Sony which would rip filthy DL DVDs in 15 minutes.
That's why I got so many coasters.

I like you rip in background so the time is not the issue if I am
getting high quality rips. I just want to make sure something like
Riplock is not interferring with what might be a slightly faster rip.

But it doesn't look like Riplock is causing the 32 minute rips because
that speed is well below 4x that Riplock imposes.

 

[kony]

I use Brasso on my switchblade knife collection. I will have to try it
on an old worn DVD.

FWIW, Arctic Ceramique (brother to Arctic Silver thermal
grease) also does a very nice job of fine abrasion, but a
bit more abrasive than brasso, probably too much for an
optical disc. As with any other disc refinishing the motion
of polishing should be away from the center towards the
edges, not in a circle around the disc.... LOL, it'd be
far too easy that way, one could just use an old CDROM drive
with the cover off to do it. This is one of the problems
with some cheap consumer grade "automated" CD polishers,
that they do it the wrong direction.

I want to know how you can rip 7GB in 16.5 minutes if Riplock limits
the read speed to 4x (5,540 KB/sec). I do not think it is Riplock that
causes the 3540 to slow down - it's the NEC being very cautious. That
means the rip is higher quality. After all, that is why I got the NEC
in place of the Sony which would rip filthy DL DVDs in 15 minutes.
That's why I got so many coasters.

Maybe... after ripping did you try playing those files,
before burning them? That would be confirmation, else if
the files play ok but the reproduced disc from them doesn't
then it'd be burning (burner) or (writable) media problem.

I like you rip in background so the time is not the issue if I am
getting high quality rips. I just want to make sure something like
Riplock is not interferring with what might be a slightly faster rip.

But it doesn't look like Riplock is causing the 32 minute rips because
that speed is well below 4x that Riplock imposes.

If you find you're ripping that much, you might grap some
less expensive DVD (need not even be a burner) drive that
online tests show has better speed... never hurts to have a
couple of optical drives, especially if the case has a bay
just sitting unused.

 

[Bob]

Maybe... after ripping did you try playing those files,
before burning them?

I never did because my son did the ripping until I talked him into
giving me the Sony/LiteOn and getting an NEC for himself. Then I saw
just how much a piece of crap the Sony/LiteOn was and got rid of it
for an NEV for myself. I am sure it was a combination of both reading
and writing errors. However, for the time I had the Sony/LiteOn I used
Decrypters Write Verify function and only had one disc rejected from
that, yet there were more that did not play properly on the DVD-ROM
hooked to the TV. I attribute that to bad rips.

If you find you're ripping that much, you might grap some
less expensive DVD (need not even be a burner) drive that
online tests show has better speed... never hurts to have a
couple of optical drives, especially if the case has a bay
just sitting unused.

That is precisely what I am looking to do. I am looking for an
inexpensive DVD-ROM that will rip anything at high quality and high
speed - if that is possible. For example, Directron has a LiteOn 16X
Internal DVD-ROM Drive, OEM [08C26] for $23.99.

http://www.directron.com/ltd163d.html

But I have no way to know anything about the rip speed and quality.
And I do not want black.

But the real question is whether a faster unit would be poor quality
on old worn video discs. After all, the NEC is slowing down because of
the disc surface quality (or lack of it) for a good reason. NEC has a
reputation of sacrificing speed for quality. So by getting a faster
DVD-ROM, I could be back where I started with the Sony/LiteOn.

The problem I am facing is that reviews of DVD-ROMs are not going to
be concerned about ripping since they do not burn.

 

[kony]

That is precisely what I am looking to do. I am looking for an
inexpensive DVD-ROM that will rip anything at high quality and high
speed - if that is possible. For example, Directron has a LiteOn 16X
Internal DVD-ROM Drive, OEM [08C26] for $23.99.

http://www.directron.com/ltd163d.html

But I have no way to know anything about the rip speed and quality.
And I do not want black.

Google is... friendly and loves us all.

Froogle ain't half bad either.
Newegg has beige,
http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827131409
If all else fails, there's always Vinyl Dye... Optical drive
bezels will vinyl dye very well, though the available vinyl
dye colors leave something to be desired.

But the real question is whether a faster unit would be poor quality
on old worn video discs. After all, the NEC is slowing down because of
the disc surface quality (or lack of it) for a good reason. NEC has a
reputation of sacrificing speed for quality. So by getting a faster
DVD-ROM, I could be back where I started with the Sony/LiteOn.

The problem I am facing is that reviews of DVD-ROMs are not going to
be concerned about ripping since they do not burn.

I would expect any decent review to at least benchmark read
speeds and compare to other contemporary alternatives...
though I have no idea which is the fastest. Considering a
mere reader is $24 or so, you might consider just looking
for a deal on another burner, they're still slowly dropping
in price so you might find something under $35 before long.

 

[John]

How do you really clean them? I have heard of using lighter fluid
(naptha) but I don't want to destroy the disc.

I use rubbing alcohol. They mention using it at a Sony site and other
sites. Works OK for me.

That's what I am running into.

I dont know if my players etc are degrading in some way or if new
disks are different but Ive noticed big freezing problems where the
disk will actually just stop at several spots and then my player quits
trying to play it. And it would be the usual crusty blob of gunk on
the disk. Sometimes Ill have to clean it several times and really look
at the surface and Ill see some fine multiple scratches in one spot.

I should get in the habit of cleaning all disks . When I started doing
that I had very few problems and the rips were all around 15-17 min.
When I started just trying to rip them even when they looked clean
they had massive problems. I also have two devices an older Liteon
DVDrom which was rated well at ripping and my NEC and they actually
work about the same level in terms of ripping.

If you manage to restore the original firmware successfully, does that
mean you warranty is not voided?

Yeah I dont see how they can tell if you restore the firmware. The
problem is when you send it back and they find some hacked or other
firmware , like a Sony with Liteon firmware - obviously thats going to
void the warranty period. Actually many firms wash their hands of any
dead device that was flashed and died. They have an attitude like -
you flashed it tough luck ! So many people advise people never to
flash anything unless its absolutely necessary. The funny thing is you
see people using hacked firmware on 1000 buck DSLRs to restore some
functions they took out. Id hate to have a dead 1000 camera from
hacked firmware.

The worst are camera companies. I flashed a cam with their firmware
following their instructions and had no problems with power
outages/interruptions and they wanted $150 to reflash it or put a new
chip in it whatever they do with cams. I just went out and bought a
new one for $200 on sale ! A newer model. It was about a 1 week out
of warranty -- their standard 1 year. Im not sure they would have
covered it if you flashed it wrong even in warranty.

 

[Bob]

Google is... friendly and loves us all.

Froogle ain't half bad either.
Newegg has beige,
http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827131409

Yes, but that does not answer my question regarding rip speed and
quality.

If all else fails, there's always Vinyl Dye... Optical drive
bezels will vinyl dye very well, though the available vinyl
dye colors leave something to be desired.

That would void the warranty.

I would expect any decent review to at least benchmark read
speeds and compare to other contemporary alternatives...
though I have no idea which is the fastest. Considering a
mere reader is $24 or so, you might consider just looking
for a deal on another burner, they're still slowly dropping
in price so you might find something under $35 before long.

I do not want the compromises built into burners. They can affect
reading strategies which in turn affects read speed.

Or so it would seem. This DVD business is still very primitive. No two
people agree on anything, and most people - even on the dedicated
forums - don't have a clue what is going on.

Take a look at the thread I just posted on surface quality and read
speeds. It's incredible but some DVD -RW units will read absolute crap
(like that Sony/LiteOn) whereas others will adjust read speeds based
on an assessment of the surface condition (like the NEC 3540).

NEC has a reputation of emphasizing quality before speed, which is the
you must go with ripping old worn video DVDs. It does no good to get a
15 minute rip when the quality is so poor it results in coasters all
the time.

NEC also has the reputation of being able to read almost anything,
even discs that others cannot read at all. The reason is becoming
apparent - the NEC adjusts to the disc and therefore is able to read
it, albeit at a slower rate than the others.

 

[Bob]

I use rubbing alcohol. They mention using it at a Sony site and other
sites. Works OK for me.

I was thinking about that but isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol) will
leave a slight residue. The Sony/LiteOn Coaster Maker will read it,
but then it will read the label off an oatmeal box - and at 16x too.

The NEC 3540 is more discriminating so alcohol residue could become a
problem. But if you can use Brasso on a DVD I suppose you can use
rubbing alcohol.

I dont know if my players etc are degrading in some way or if new
disks are different but Ive noticed big freezing problems where the
disk will actually just stop at several spots and then my player quits
trying to play it.

That was precisely what was happening to discs ripped/burned with the
Sony/LiteOn Coaster Maker. That's why I got rid of it - that and the
fact that neither Sony or LiteOn would support it.

I should get in the habit of cleaning all disks . When I started doing
that I had very few problems and the rips were all around 15-17 min.
When I started just trying to rip them even when they looked clean
they had massive problems.

Indeed. See my thread on Surface Condition and Read Speeds for a
dramatic instance of just what you are saying.

Yeah I dont see how they can tell if you restore the firmware.

I asked the gurus at CDFreaks and the person named Dee who is
responsible for the latest 3540 hack firmware says that there are
counters and other things that give away the fact that it has been
hacked.

 

[kony]

Yes, but that does not answer my question regarding rip speed and
quality.


That would void the warranty.

Well, umm, errrrr,
yes.

My general philosophy about warranties is to test a product
fully when new then ignore the warranty if you find it
useful to mod a part... otherwise you become a slave to the
warranty. There may occasionally be some part that fails
and you have to take a loss due to voided warranty, but then
we're not taking about a $500 video card let alone entire
OEM system.

I also try to consider what potential there is for harm.
While I would not think it fair to get a drive replaced
under warranty because of a firmware mishap, it would seem
reasonable to get a warranty replacement if you had removed
the bezel, vinyl dyed it, then later the drive died from
completely unrelated causes... in which case I'd probably
buy another drive and swap the bezels Some failures are not
so clear-cut though, but after having colored so many parts
myself I know there is no risk to drive operation from the
bezel alone being dyed. I don't recommend dying the inner
tray though nor dying it while on the drive still.

NEC also has the reputation of being able to read almost anything,
even discs that others cannot read at all. The reason is becoming
apparent - the NEC adjusts to the disc and therefore is able to read
it, albeit at a slower rate than the others.

Well if they spent the time to perfectly engineer these
things then they might cost 3X as much? I'm pretty
impressed that they already sell for under $40, since CDRW
drives cost more for a longer period of time when
introduced.

 

[Bob]

My general philosophy about warranties is to test a product
fully when new then ignore the warranty if you find it
useful to mod a part... otherwise you become a slave to the
warranty.

I agree. But this is a new unit so I want to make sure it works
properly. It made it past infant mortality so it's likely to work.
Anyway, Directron took back that Sony/LiteOn Coaster Maker even though
my son had bought it in Oct of 2004. But the deal was that it would be
an even swap for the NEC 3540 and the Directron warranty would end Oct
2005 as it would have for the Sony/LiteOn. That gives me plenty of
time.

For some reason a huge reseller/distributor like Directron has not
gotten any beige 3540s in stock - they have plenty of black but not
any beige. They had to get the beige one I got from their
newly-acquired company, Axiontech - and they only had one.

I also try to consider what potential there is for harm.

I am trying to assess that issue right now. But I am not making much
headway even with CDFreaks. For example, is Riplock really the cause
of slow video DVD rips? It would appear that is not the case.

Last night I repeated some experiments. I ripped a new video DVD with
Decryptor and it took 16.5 minutes. That's what it took with the
Sony/LiteOn. Then I ripped it with Shrink - Full Disk. That took about
20 minutes - again about what I got with the Sony/LiteOn. Then I wiped
the disc with my clean t-shirt that I had put on fresh that morning.
The disc looked clean but now Shrink demanded an hour and one half to
rip full disc. Then I cleaned the disc with a clean cotton cloth and
Shrink went back to 20 minutes.

Apparently some moisture from my t-shirt got on the disc which really
blew the 3540's mind. The point should be obvious - surface quality is
crucial to rip speed. Therefore it could be that there is no Riplock
issue and that the 3540 is doing an admirable job in making sure that
the rips are highest quality.

I got rid of the Sony/LiteOn for two reasons: 1) Neither Sony nor
LiteOn would support it, which meant I would never be able to upgrade
the firmware; 2) It made far too many coasters, even when I used
Verify in Decryptor when I burned the disc.

That's an important fact. Verify in Decrypter caught a bad burn once
so I know it works. If the burned disc passes the Verify test, then
that means the burn was successful. If you get a coaster then it's
because the rip was defective, which in turn is caused by poor quality
control of the read speed.

The thing I am confronted with is to decide that the 3540 is working
properly even though it slows down when ripping old worn video DVDs.
If that is desireable then I do not want to fool around with hack
firmware and mess up a good thing. If it takes 30 minutes to get a
high quality rip, then that's the price that must be paid for the task
at hand, namely ripping an old worn disc. I do not want to go back to
poor quality rips, and that is why I hesitate to install hack
firmware.

I keep bringing these issue up to the CDFreaks forum but I am not
getting any viable responses - only the droll mantras you get from
reading FAQs. Maybe the 3540 is too new so people can't comment.

The upshot is that I will not install any firmware until I get these
issues resolved, even if it takes me a year, in which case the unit is
heading to obsolescence anyway so I can risk trashing it with a bad
flash.

Well if they spent the time to perfectly engineer these
things then they might cost 3X as much? I'm pretty
impressed that they already sell for under $40, since CDRW
drives cost more for a longer period of time when
introduced.

There are some companies that have a broad enough customer base that
they can afford to do "perfect engineering". I suspect the smaller
manufacturers deliberately keep perfect engineering from their units
not because of cost but because of planned obsolescence. It's called
the Microsoft Business Model.

The NEC 3540 was the most highly rated unit of any when I researched
it a month ago, and I have no reason to think that rating is
undeserved. If it takes 30 minutes to rip an old worn video DVD to
high quality then that's what it takes, and anything significanty
faster, like that Sony/LiteOn, is going to result in a higher
percentage of coasters, which is not worth the saving in time.

 

[kony]

I am trying to assess that issue right now. But I am not making much
headway even with CDFreaks. For example, is Riplock really the cause
of slow video DVD rips? It would appear that is not the case.

Regarding firmware changes, I suggest that you make sure
you're familiar with any steps necessary to return the drive
to the original firmware, if those steps differ from
flashing to the new one. Then, just flash the new firmware
others report as working and do the benchtests. Test the
drive in other ways as well and if it works fine, there
isn't even a need to flash back to the original firmware.

Flashing firmware the first time or two might provoke some
extra hesitation, but once you've done it a few times it
seems fairly routine.... but again, you have to accept that
there might be some odd mishap 1 time out of 100, even more
often if you're a drinker or like to keep on working when
tired.

Last night I repeated some experiments. I ripped a new video DVD with
Decryptor and it took 16.5 minutes. That's what it took with the
Sony/LiteOn. Then I ripped it with Shrink - Full Disk. That took about
20 minutes - again about what I got with the Sony/LiteOn. Then I wiped
the disc with my clean t-shirt that I had put on fresh that morning.
The disc looked clean but now Shrink demanded an hour and one half to
rip full disc. Then I cleaned the disc with a clean cotton cloth and
Shrink went back to 20 minutes.

Apparently some moisture from my t-shirt got on the disc which really
blew the 3540's mind. The point should be obvious - surface quality is
crucial to rip speed. Therefore it could be that there is no Riplock
issue and that the 3540 is doing an admirable job in making sure that
the rips are highest quality.

I got rid of the Sony/LiteOn for two reasons: 1) Neither Sony nor
LiteOn would support it, which meant I would never be able to upgrade
the firmware; 2) It made far too many coasters, even when I used
Verify in Decryptor when I burned the disc.

I agree with you decision fully, if a drive can't make discs
as reliable as possible, it's value as a burner is low. I
really hate to pull out a CDRW these days and find it's
unreadable and so much worse in a few years when a disc has
several GB on it.

The thing I am confronted with is to decide that the 3540 is working
properly even though it slows down when ripping old worn video DVDs.
If that is desireable then I do not want to fool around with hack
firmware and mess up a good thing. If it takes 30 minutes to get a
high quality rip, then that's the price that must be paid for the task
at hand, namely ripping an old worn disc. I do not want to go back to
poor quality rips, and that is why I hesitate to install hack
firmware.

I don't know what to tell you here... flip an coin and flash
it, or don't. Personally I'd not care much how long it
takes to rip a disc, I just stack them up when I have a few
then throw one in when it's convenient, never in a rush to
do it.

 

[Bob]

Regarding firmware changes, I suggest that you make sure
you're familiar with any steps necessary to return the drive
to the original firmware, if those steps differ from
flashing to the new one.

That is one of the items on my agenda. According to one firmware site,
you have to use some DOS-based flasher from The Dangerous Brothers to
return the original firmware, yet when you look for it, there is none.
I asked the very person responsible for the new firmware to explain
but she has not answered me after 2 inquiries. It's shit like this
that does not inspire confidence.

Then, just flash the new firmware
others report as working

That's another problem. The 3540 is so new that no one has reported
anything extensive about the new firmware. I would be one of the first
to try it.

I recall following a new firmware release about 6 months ago. The
author claimed it was thoroughly tested but when someone told him that
there was a fatal bug, he issued a warning not to use it. I do not
care to be a beta test site, not when I have to eat the cost of some
else's negligence.

and do the benchtests.

I still have more benchmarks to do on the original firmware. I only
tested with one old worn video DVD and therefore need a larger sample
size. That particular one could have had more damage than I could see
with the naked eye.

Flashing firmware the first time or two might provoke some
extra hesitation, but once you've done it a few times it
seems fairly routine.

I have been flashing firmware since PROMs first came out. I used to
build industrial RTUs so I know the ritual quite well - and that
includes firmware I wrote in Assembly.

I did not fall off a turnip truck yesterday - I have been doing this
computer shit since 1965 when I wrote my first program in FORTRAN IV
for the IBM 7094.

but again, you have to accept that
there might be some odd mishap 1 time out of 100, even more
often if you're a drinker or like to keep on working when
tired.

I am not afraid of the flashing procedure. I have my system on a UPS
so even if a freak storm came along, I'm not going to lose anything.

What I am concerned with is the firmware itself. First there is the
high likelihood of a bug that no one caught because thus far no one
has tested it. Then there's the problem of the new firmware making
matters worse in terms of quality rips. Then there is the matter of
not knowing for sure how to reflash with the original dumped firmware.

I am finding it strange that a forum like CDFreaks can't provide
answers to simple questions. I suspect it's because no one wants to go
out on a limb with an untested firmware.

I agree with you decision fully, if a drive can't make discs
as reliable as possible, it's value as a burner is low. I
really hate to pull out a CDRW these days and find it's
unreadable and so much worse in a few years when a disc has
several GB on it.

If I find that the 32 minute rip was just a really bad disc, then I am
leaving things alone. I bought the 3540 for quality not racing.

I don't know what to tell you here... flip an coin and flash
it, or don't.

That's not very scientific.

As mentioned I have a lot more to do before I flash new firmware.

 

[kony]

That is one of the items on my agenda. According to one firmware site,
you have to use some DOS-based flasher from The Dangerous Brothers to
return the original firmware, yet when you look for it, there is none.
I asked the very person responsible for the new firmware to explain
but she has not answered me after 2 inquiries. It's shit like this
that does not inspire confidence.

I just googled and found a couple alternatives but I leave
it to you to assess them.
http://binflash.cdfreaks.com/

I believe some of these packages include the flasher.
http://www.micheldeboer.nl/firmware/3540.html

That's another problem. The 3540 is so new that no one has reported
anything extensive about the new firmware. I would be one of the first
to try it.

Often what happens is that if a firmware works fine, nobody
says anything... it's only when it's bad that people stomp
and yell about it. In a popular forum, it shouldn't take
long after a firmware is posted for a popular drive, for
someone to report problems.

I recall following a new firmware release about 6 months ago. The
author claimed it was thoroughly tested but when someone told him that
there was a fatal bug, he issued a warning not to use it. I do not
care to be a beta test site, not when I have to eat the cost of some
else's negligence.

Well you could always learn to mod firmware yourself?
There's bound to be a tutorial or two out there...

What I am concerned with is the firmware itself. First there is the
high likelihood of a bug that no one caught because thus far no one
has tested it. Then there's the problem of the new firmware making
matters worse in terms of quality rips. Then there is the matter of
not knowing for sure how to reflash with the original dumped firmware.

Generally the bugs are related to the user environment used
to flash, not the firmware as it's usually just the same
firmware someone flipped a few binary switches in.

I am finding it strange that a forum like CDFreaks can't provide
answers to simple questions. I suspect it's because no one wants to go
out on a limb with an untested firmware.

Try a different forum then, or read this thread,
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=136589