Resolution claims on my Microtek 6800 scanner

  • Thread starter Thread starter Alan F Cross
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Alan F Cross

My Microtek 6800 flatbed claims a maximum *optical* resolution of 2400 x
4800 ppi.

I thought, therefore, that I would get comparable 35mm transparency
scans to those from my 2820 ppi dedicated film scanner. But they are
nowhere near as good - and I'm only talking about resolving power here.

Is the issue one of the inability of the flatbed to focus accurately
enough, or are Microtek leading me astray on resolution?

I see little point in having a flatbed that cannot focus well enough to
'see' its maximum resolution. Are they all like this?

TIA.
 
I see little point in having a flatbed that cannot focus well enough to
'see' its maximum resolution. Are they all like this?

As far as the "prosumer" range, yes. Some better than others, none living
up to the actual resolving power claimed by it's ppi rating compared to
film scanner of same ppi.

Mac
 
The so-called "optical resolution" of flatbed scanners refers only to the
number of dots per inch that they scan. The actual optical resolution is
also a function of the spot size and shape, as well as whether it is focused
where the subject is, e.g. the emulsion on the slide. I also suspect that
the stepper motor used to generate the scan motion induces vibration that is
not allowed to damp out before expossure of each line. In fact, many
flatbed scanners won't resolve more than 300-600 lines/inch.

I have an Epson 1640SU with a transparency adapter. The adapter replaces
the usual lid of the scanner and includes a separate light source behind the
transparency. Using the adapter, I get perhaps 1000 lines/inch, although
I've never measured it. I have also used a Minaolta Dimage transparency
scanner, and the flatbed with the transparency adapter doesn't even approach
the quality of it..

Don
 
I have the Scanmaker 5900, which has the same "claimed" resolution as the 6800.
Comparison 35mm scans between the 5900 and the "cheap" HP S20, showed the S20 to
have by far better resolution than the 5900.

Jeff.
 
Don <[email protected]> said:
The so-called "optical resolution" of flatbed scanners refers only to the
number of dots per inch that they scan. The actual optical resolution is
also a function of the spot size and shape,

In the case of this scanner it is the size of the CCD element that is
the issue, however expectations are set too high by quoting a "4800ppi"
specification.

Like most high resolution flatbed scanners, the Mikrotek uses an
oversampled CCD - where the pitch between adjacent elements is less than
the width of the element, in fact it is pretty close to half the width
of the element. This is achieved by manufacturing each linear CCD as
two rows of elements that are offset relative to each other by half a
pitch. Epson were the first to introduce this technology to commercial
scanners, calling it HyperCCD, Microtek call their version Sigma-Six
CCD, because 6 rows are required for the three colours. The approach
has been used on high performance military surveillance systems since
even before CCDs were invented!

The advantage is that the CCD is almost oversampled by itself, but
certainly is by the time that the lens MTF is included. Oversampling
ensures that the limiting resolution is less than half the sampling
density - which all sampling systems require to avoid aliasing. So
that's good in terms of the axis along the CCD - except for the fact
that to achieve zero MTF before the onset of aliasing, some MTF (ie.
resolved contrast) has to be thrown away below that hard Nyquist limit.
Because there is 4x as much collecting area per element as with a
traditional linear CCD though, the image stands up much better to
sharpening to recover this reduced MTF - indeed oversampling requires
post scan sharpening.

However, in the scanning direction the same resolution limit is imposed
- zero MTF at a resolution less than half the CCD's sampling density.
So, even though the stepper motor samples the data at twice the density
in that axis there just isn't any more resolution to be gained.
Furthermore, to create square pixels, scanning at 4800ppi requires the
samples in the CCD axis to be interpolated, which is a further loss in
MTF - so the overall resolution can actually be worse at 4800ppi than at
2400ppi. Though you probably need to undertake careful measurements to
discriminate this loss, there certainly isn't any resolution to be
gained.

This is, however, partially countered by the fact that you have twice as
many real samples, therefore getting the effect of 2x multiscan, and
hence 30% less noise.
I also suspect that
the stepper motor used to generate the scan motion induces vibration that is
not allowed to damp out before expossure of each line.

The vibration amplitude would have to be a significant fraction of 2x
the CCD pitch to be a problem, and I just can't see a step of half a
pitch inducing that level of vibration, even if it isn't allowed to damp
out.
In fact, many
flatbed scanners won't resolve more than 300-600 lines/inch.
By that I hope you mean line pairs, or cycles, since few flatbeds,
especially those specified at 2400ppi are quite that bad!
I have an Epson 1640SU with a transparency adapter. The adapter replaces
the usual lid of the scanner and includes a separate light source behind the
transparency. Using the adapter, I get perhaps 1000 lines/inch, although
I've never measured it.

I have, and it seems from that statement that you were not referring to
line pairs, making your earlier reference a long way out.

Limiting resolution of the 1640SU (MTF = noise) is 700cy/in, effectively
Nyquist for 1400ppi. However, this is the true resolution limit, when
nothing else is resolved, just like a camera lens resolution is defined.
Few people understand the difference between what such an image looks
like and what they typically expect a digital image to be, where the MTF
at Nyquist can be excessively high. In short, they mistake sharpness
for resolution. Anyone familiar with Photoshop should understand that
they can sharpen and image without changing its resolution - but few
seem to recognise the distinction.

At 450cy/in (900ppi Nyquist) the MTF of the Epson 1640SU is over 30% -
without sharpening - however sampling at 900ppi would result in
significant aliasing.
I have also used a Minaolta Dimage transparency
scanner, and the flatbed with the transparency adapter doesn't even approach
the quality of it..
But the Minolta aliases grain like few other scanners. :-(
 
Alan said:
My Microtek 6800 flatbed claims a maximum *optical* resolution of 2400 x
4800 ppi.

I thought, therefore, that I would get comparable 35mm transparency
scans to those from my 2820 ppi dedicated film scanner. But they are
nowhere near as good - and I'm only talking about resolving power here.

Is the issue one of the inability of the flatbed to focus accurately
enough, or are Microtek leading me astray on resolution?

I see little point in having a flatbed that cannot focus well enough to
'see' its maximum resolution. Are they all like this?

TIA.

Kennedy McEwen has given a thorough explanation, which is well worth
studying, but if you are new to the subject, you may not follow it all.

Briefly, what is going on here is that the two numbers tell you somthing
about how many samples are collected, both horizontally along the scan
array, and vertically in the direction it moves. If you scan say at
2400 ppi, that is the number of pixels you will end up, for each color,
in each horizontal line. That is called the sampling resolution. This
has to be distinguished from the resolution in the old sense, which is
supposed to tell you how well fine detail is resolved. This is usually
specified in line pairs per unit length, where you envision a source
consisting of bars separated by equal width spaces. You may have seen
such patterns in a test chart. A man named Nyquist showed that the
best you could hope for in line pairs per inch is half the sampling
resolution. Roughly speaking that means you need to sample two pixels
to encode the information in one pair of a line and the adjacent space.
But that is a theoretical maximum which will never be attained in a
real scanner. Because of deficiencies in the optics and other
components of the scanner, it will be somewhat less. I don't know
about the Microtek scanner, but similar Epson scanners deliver about
half of the theoretical maximum, which is about one quarter of the
sampling resolution. 2400 ppi is, metrically, about 94 pixels per mm,
so the theoretical maximum is about 47 lp/mm, and what is actually
delivered may be more like 25 lp/mm. In principle, such a scan could be
enlarged up to 5 times without there being obvious loss of fine detail
relative to what is in the source film. Dedicated film scanners, at
similar prices, tend to get closer to the theoretical maximum, but again
a lot depends on the design of the scanner.

Kennedy McEwen also discusses the issue of aliasing. What happens here
is that very fine detail in the source which is above the theoretical
upper limit can be "reflected" downwards as artifacts in the scanned
image. As he indicates, some designs may minimize such aliasing.
 
My Microtek 6800 flatbed claims a maximum *optical* resolution of 2400 x
4800 ppi.

I thought, therefore, that I would get comparable 35mm transparency
scans to those from my 2820 ppi dedicated film scanner. But they are
nowhere near as good - and I'm only talking about resolving power here.

Is the issue one of the inability of the flatbed to focus accurately
enough, or are Microtek leading me astray on resolution?

I see little point in having a flatbed that cannot focus well enough to
'see' its maximum resolution. Are they all like this?

TIA.

The main reason for the difference is that the lens system used in a
film scanner is far superior to flatbed scanners. It's that simple.

I agree that the scanner manufacturers are trying to push the speed
and are not allowing the stepper motor long enough to stop on each
line. But in spite of that in my tests the Y resolution is almost the
same as the X, indicating that the lens array in the scanner is the
cause of the resolution limit. Scanner lenses are not apochromatic,
which is apparent if you click between the different color channels
quickly while looking at the image.

If film scnners sold more to the mass market the prices would come
down, but unfortunately medium format film scanners like the Microtek
120TF are rare and remain in the Pro price category.
 
Al <[email protected]> said:
The main reason for the difference is that the lens system used in a
film scanner is far superior to flatbed scanners. It's that simple.
Unfortunately it is not - either that simple or even that true. :-(
I agree that the scanner manufacturers are trying to push the speed
and are not allowing the stepper motor long enough to stop on each
line. But in spite of that in my tests the Y resolution is almost the
same as the X, indicating that the lens array in the scanner is the
cause of the resolution limit.

I am a little bewildered at how you can reach that unique conclusion
from the evidence (which I do not dispute) that you have gathered.

Without even considering the lens the theory concerning the Sigma-Six
CCD, which Microtek openly publish details of, predicts that x-y
resolution would be virtually identical, so I do not see how you can
conclude from a measured result which is consistent with the theory that
the lens is deficient. It doesn't matter what performance lens you put
on it, assuming it is not astigmatic, the resolution in the x and y axes
will be the same, whether the lens limits the resolution further or not.
In short, your test is inadequate from which to draw your conclusion!
 
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