Replace magnetic with optical

  • Thread starter Thread starter Radium
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Radium

Hi:

Why do hard disc drives use magnetic discs?

Since non-volatile flash RAM chips are not yet feasible for HDD-
substitution, why not replace the magnetic platters with optical ones
that use 400 nm lasers to write, read, erase, and re-write data?

Optical platters using 400 nm lasers would surely have advantages over
magnetic platters. More data per area and less vulnerability to
environmental magnetic disruptions -- to name a few.

I say dump all magnetic discs and replace them with the optical
equivalent. Use 400 nm lasers because 400 nm is the sweet spot between
shortest wavelength and non-ionizing radiation. Shorter wavelengths
require less size to write/read data. Too short and you increase your
risk of cancer. So use 400 nm and dump those useless magnetic discs.

Red lasers -- used by CDs -- are horrible because they require so much
space on the disk to write data. Green lasers -- used by DVDs -- are a
tad better. Blu-ray -- at 405 nm -- is almost at the best wavelength
but not quite!


Regards,

Radium
 
Yum, looks likr I get first bite. >:)
Why do hard disc drives use magnetic discs?

Since non-volatile flash RAM chips are not yet feasible for HDD-
substitution, why not replace the magnetic platters with optical ones
that use 400 nm lasers to write, read, erase, and re-write data?
Click to expand...

Possibly because decades ago, there were no blue laser diodes?
Optical platters using 400 nm lasers would surely have advantages over
magnetic platters. More data per area and less vulnerability to
environmental magnetic disruptions -- to name a few.
Click to expand...

It's been tried, but I'll not try to pr-empt the words of those who know
far more history than I do. As to volume, a single platter of a hard disk
can hold a few hundred GB. There is an optical disk being developed that is
said to have more, but I don't think it's on sale yet. Current blue diode
disks don't hold anything like this much. Multiply by four or so, per
layer, but not by a hundred.
I say dump all magnetic discs and replace them with the optical
equivalent. Use 400 nm lasers because 400 nm is the sweet spot between
shortest wavelength and non-ionizing radiation. Shorter wavelengths
require less size to write/read data. Too short and you increase your
risk of cancer. So use 400 nm and dump those useless magnetic discs.
Click to expand...

Less soze, no, as I said. Less time? Definitely not. And if you spun an
optical disk as fast as a hard disk, the laser would have to be extremely
strong to write to the surface it as it passes by so rapidly.
Red lasers -- used by CDs -- are horrible because they require so much
space on the disk to write data. Green lasers -- used by DVDs -- are a
tad better. Blu-ray -- at 405 nm -- is almost at the best wavelength
but not quite!
Click to expand...

If you can find a green laser in a DVD, and prove you found it, grab that
time machine with both hands and patent it before anyone else gets there
first.
 
Hi:

Why do hard disc drives use magnetic discs?
Click to expand...

High data density and speed, leveraging mature technology
incrementally updated for reasonable cost effectiveness.

Since non-volatile flash RAM chips are not yet feasible for HDD-
substitution,
Click to expand...

They are, but it'd cost a lot. Too much mostly because Bill
Gates & Co. let windows become so bloated it now needs
Gigabytes of space, but the other software manufacturers are
to blame as well.

why not replace the magnetic platters with optical ones
that use 400 nm lasers to write, read, erase, and re-write data?
Click to expand...

Is what you have in mind as cheap and fast? Usually optical
is not.

Optical platters using 400 nm lasers would surely have advantages over
magnetic platters. More data per area and less vulnerability to
environmental magnetic disruptions -- to name a few.
Click to expand...

What makes you think a "magnetic disruption" is a
significant problem? What makes you think there is any
less vulnerability at all? A hard drive has a GREAT deal of
mechanical movement, other devices meant for lesser read and
write cycles might be viable if cheap enough, small enough,
and fast enough, but if only more expensive, no smaller and
no faster, the one thing you assume is not a clear victory.
I say dump all magnetic discs and replace them with the optical
equivalent. Use 400 nm lasers because 400 nm is the sweet spot between
shortest wavelength and non-ionizing radiation. Shorter wavelengths
require less size to write/read data. Too short and you increase your
risk of cancer. So use 400 nm and dump those useless magnetic discs.
Click to expand...

You seem unable to use current technology if you find it
such a problem. Thus, if we introduced this tech you want,
you would be as likely to just find it a problem and pretend
you have an advanced insight on some other thing that isn't
here yet either, only a hypothetical device which in
practice may also have drawbacks.
Red lasers -- used by CDs -- are horrible because they require so much
space on the disk to write data. Green lasers -- used by DVDs -- are a
tad better. Blu-ray -- at 405 nm -- is almost at the best wavelength
but not quite!
Click to expand...

Forget ideals and focus on real needs. The market doesn't
really need a concept drive they need something proven
through years of testing. That at an attractive price
point. Eventually there will be more optical alternatives
but it would be foolish to "dump all magnetic discs" before
the replacement technology is ready.

Your ideas are akin to "cars suck, dump all cars and use
space ships", but wordier.
 
Radium said:
.... snip ...

Optical platters using 400 nm lasers would surely have advantages
over magnetic platters. More data per area and less vulnerability
to environmental magnetic disruptions -- to name a few.
Click to expand...

Not so. To prove it to yourself, go out and buy a 200 odd gig hard
drive. Rip it open, and discard all parts other than the rotatable
disk(s) itself. Now compare its volume with that of a DVD disk,
which holds maybe 8 gig.
 
Radium said:
Hi:

Why do hard disc drives use magnetic discs?

Since non-volatile flash RAM chips are not yet feasible for HDD-
substitution, why not replace the magnetic platters with optical ones
that use 400 nm lasers to write, read, erase, and re-write data?

Optical platters using 400 nm lasers would surely have advantages over
magnetic platters. More data per area and less vulnerability to
environmental magnetic disruptions -- to name a few.

I say dump all magnetic discs and replace them with the optical
equivalent. Use 400 nm lasers because 400 nm is the sweet spot between
shortest wavelength and non-ionizing radiation. Shorter wavelengths
require less size to write/read data. Too short and you increase your
risk of cancer. So use 400 nm and dump those useless magnetic discs.

Red lasers -- used by CDs -- are horrible because they require so much
space on the disk to write data. Green lasers -- used by DVDs -- are a
tad better. Blu-ray -- at 405 nm -- is almost at the best wavelength
but not quite!


Regards,

Radium
Click to expand...

You don't need permission from me -- or from Bill Gates -- to do so.

You may need to hack the OS a bit to boot/run from the DVD of your choice,
which is easier with a *NIX than a WinWhatever. Then boot from and run
from that DVD, and report back on how fast it is, relative to the
normal HD you will then be wanting back. Oh, and make sure you use a
PC with limited RAM, to feel the effects of swapping to your DVD.
 
CBFalconer said:
Not so. To prove it to yourself, go out and buy a 200 odd gig hard
drive. Rip it open, and discard all parts other than the rotatable
disk(s) itself. Now compare its volume with that of a DVD disk,
which holds maybe 8 gig.
Click to expand...

Not quite a fair comparison. A double sided double layer DVD can hold
around 20 GB. A similar blu-ray (405 nm) disc could hold 5 to 10 times
that. A holographic memory of the same volume could hold much more.

And when is the last time your harddrive was affected by an "environmental
magnetic disruption" short of an EMP from a nuclear blast? :)

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.
 
I wonder why no one has commented on him (original topic starter) that he
saying they use green lasers for dvd.
 
Sam Goldwasser said:
Not quite a fair comparison. A double sided double layer DVD can hold
around 20 GB. A similar blu-ray (405 nm) disc could hold 5 to 10 times
that. A holographic memory of the same volume could hold much more.
Click to expand...

Now you've done it, Sam...Radium will be after us now re his
latest and greatest fantasy, the holographic-storage laptop. And
it will be entirely YOUR fault....

Bob M.
 
I wonder why no one has commented on him (original topic starter) that he
saying they use green lasers for dvd.
Click to expand...

Two people have, at least. Doug and me. How are you accessing usenet? How
many posts do you see in this thread?
 
I wonder why no one has commented on him (original topic starter) that he
saying they use green lasers for dvd.
Click to expand...


Cant find info now but last year radium was found to be FOS. Instead
of Radium he should be called Random.
 
Bob Myers said:
Now you've done it, Sam...Radium will be after us now re his
latest and greatest fantasy, the holographic-storage laptop. And
it will be entirely YOUR fault....
Click to expand...

It's actually closer than you think. :)

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.
 
LaserUser said:
I wonder why no one has commented on him (original topic starter) that he
saying they use green lasers for dvd.
Click to expand...

Actually, I did think about that one...I just felt it was like a waste of
effort to
submit a correction.
 
LaserUser said:
I wonder why no one has commented on him (original topic starter) that he
saying they use green lasers for dvd.
Click to expand...


It doesn't matter what you tell him, he's a troll.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
Radium will be after us now re his
latest and greatest fantasy, the holographic-storage laptop.
Click to expand...

In which the holographic-storage laptop is fully laseronic and does
not require electricity to any extent, but instead, is powered by a
remote nuclear fusion reactor.

Instead of electronic chips, this PC contains laseronic chips [laser
circuits instead of electric circuits]. No magnetism, no electricity.
Just 400 nm lasers power by a long-distance Deuterium-Tritium reactor.
All storages devices are solid-state. No discs, no tapes. Everything
is purely hardware. There is no microcoding. Everything is hard-wired,
except for the RAM chip. The laseronic RAM chip acts as a solid-state
HDD. Windows 98 SE is the OS and Mozilla 1.8b is the browser and,
Creative Music Synth is the MIDI synth.

Last but not least, all the lasers use a wavelength of 400 nm.

quotes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcode :

"Each machine instruction (add, shift, move) was implemented directly
with circuitry. This provided fast performance, but as instruction
sets grew more complex, hard-wired instruction sets became more
difficult to design and debug."

I still prefer the "hard-wired instruction sets"

"a bug could often be fixed by replacing a portion of the microprogram
rather than by changes being made to hardware logic and wiring."

But I still perfer the "hardware logic and wiring".

Yup. Just for personal preference, I also like my PC to be massively-
parallel.

The power supply starts off as a high-power 400 nm laser that is
pumped by D-T fusion at a power station. As the laser light runs to my
home, it does not do so at full-blast -- that would mean total
destruction in everything in the path of the laser. Instead this
gigalaser is used to power smaller less intense 400 nm lasers, these
lasers are less intense but powerful enough to energize my photonic
PC. Withing the PC itself, the intensity of the 400 nm laser light are
much less still, just like the electric voltages in conventional PC
are much lower in the motherboard, HDD, and other devices, than the
110 volt socket with takes in the initial electricity.
 
It doesn't matter what you tell him, he's a troll.
Click to expand...


Radium reminds me of certain bright, but uninformed, ten-year-olds
that I have met. Is there a possibility that he has some kind of
condition? Like being autistic or having development issues, or just
being a snot-nosed little prick?
 
Radium said:
Radium will be after us now re his
latest and greatest fantasy, the holographic-storage laptop.
Click to expand...

In which the holographic-storage laptop is fully laseronic and does
not require electricity to any extent, but instead, is powered by a
remote nuclear fusion reactor.

Instead of electronic chips, this PC contains laseronic chips [laser
circuits instead of electric circuits]. No magnetism, no electricity.
Just 400 nm lasers power by a long-distance Deuterium-Tritium reactor.
All storages devices are solid-state. No discs, no tapes. Everything
is purely hardware. There is no microcoding. Everything is hard-wired,
except for the RAM chip. The laseronic RAM chip acts as a solid-state
HDD. Windows 98 SE is the OS and Mozilla 1.8b is the browser and,
Creative Music Synth is the MIDI synth.

Last but not least, all the lasers use a wavelength of 400 nm.

quotes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcode :

"Each machine instruction (add, shift, move) was implemented directly
with circuitry. This provided fast performance, but as instruction
sets grew more complex, hard-wired instruction sets became more
difficult to design and debug."

I still prefer the "hard-wired instruction sets"

"a bug could often be fixed by replacing a portion of the microprogram
rather than by changes being made to hardware logic and wiring."

But I still perfer the "hardware logic and wiring".

Yup. Just for personal preference, I also like my PC to be massively-
parallel.

The power supply starts off as a high-power 400 nm laser that is
pumped by D-T fusion at a power station. As the laser light runs to my
home, it does not do so at full-blast -- that would mean total
destruction in everything in the path of the laser. Instead this
gigalaser is used to power smaller less intense 400 nm lasers, these
lasers are less intense but powerful enough to energize my photonic
PC. Withing the PC itself, the intensity of the 400 nm laser light are
much less still, just like the electric voltages in conventional PC
are much lower in the motherboard, HDD, and other devices, than the
110 volt socket with takes in the initial electricity.
Click to expand...


"no magnetism, no electricity" = no light

P. Danek
 
contrex said:
Radium reminds me of certain bright, but uninformed, ten-year-olds
that I have met. Is there a possibility that he has some kind of
condition? Like being autistic or having development issues, or just
being a snot-nosed little prick?
Click to expand...

The smart money at this point seems to be on the
latter...

Bob M.
 
Radium reminds me of certain bright, but uninformed, ten-year-olds
that I have met. Is there a possibility that he has some kind of
condition? Like being autistic or having development issues, or just
being a snot-nosed little prick?
Click to expand...


Contrex, I dont hae a problem with his conditions he may have, I do
have a problem of him picking up a magazine and discussing it as if he
had first hand knowledge on the particular topic. I applaud him for
trying to grasp technology and some day he may be good, he just needs
to stop pretending that he has knowledge on the topic. Kid has a ton
of spare time on his hands. Look at his postings, can you imagine if
he spent all that time actually learning about technology...he would
be good. At least he gets people talking :)
 
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