Repeated error in 2004 PL

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Dennis Roark

Once again, the error from last year regarding cpu cooling in Windows XP
is repeated. From the description of Rain on the 2004 list:

"NOTES: Windows NT/2000/XP don't need CPU cooling programs that execute
HLT instructions (such as Rain) because they already comes with an
option to execute HLT instructions when the CPU is idle."

This is hogwash and flatly untrue! On VIA mainboards with Athlon and
Athon XP cpu's VCOOL, an alternative freeware cooler drops the idle temp
on Windows XP by about 10 degrees C. Several others confirmed this as
their experience last year (others failed to give it a try and simply
made false assertions.) It is a shame to see this nonsense about XP not
being able to use a properly configured cpu cooler. It may be that Rain
can't drop XP temps, but VCool can. With VIA 266A chipsets and higher,
the idle loop should not be enabled, but the cool bit and halt detect
settings should be enabled.

I use this on all VIA mainboard Athlon systems running XP and show the
computer science majors where I am a professor how to do it. Running
this cooler has reduced temps on computers in an important way,
particular in poorly cooled environments. To see its effect, start up
VCool 1.8b10a and watch the temps drop. Then disable the setting of
cool bit and halt detect, and watch the temps rise. It is unfortunate
that pricelessware list has decided to perpetuate the false information.

--
Dennis Roark

(e-mail address removed)
Starting Points:
http://sio.midco.net/denro/www
 
Dennis said:
Once again, the error from last year regarding cpu cooling in Windows XP
is repeated. From the description of Rain on the 2004 list:

"NOTES: Windows NT/2000/XP don't need CPU cooling programs that execute
HLT instructions (such as Rain) because they already comes with an
option to execute HLT instructions when the CPU is idle."

This is hogwash and flatly untrue! On VIA mainboards with Athlon and
Athon XP cpu's VCOOL, an alternative freeware cooler drops the idle temp
on Windows XP by about 10 degrees C. Several others confirmed this as
their experience last year (others failed to give it a try and simply
made false assertions.) It is a shame to see this nonsense about XP not
being able to use a properly configured cpu cooler. It may be that Rain
can't drop XP temps, but VCool can. With VIA 266A chipsets and higher,
the idle loop should not be enabled, but the cool bit and halt detect
settings should be enabled.

I use this on all VIA mainboard Athlon systems running XP and show the
computer science majors where I am a professor how to do it. Running
this cooler has reduced temps on computers in an important way,
particular in poorly cooled environments. To see its effect, start up
VCool 1.8b10a and watch the temps drop. Then disable the setting of
cool bit and halt detect, and watch the temps rise. It is unfortunate
that pricelessware list has decided to perpetuate the false information.
Click to expand...

I researched this in depth last year. The Rain program description was
revised at that time. To the best of my knowledge and belief the
statement on the Pricelessware list is accurate. It is also *specific* -
it is not a general treatise about all types of coolers and their effects.

Please cite the sources that back up your assertions of "hogwash" "false
information" etc. etc. etc.

Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
 
I researched this in depth last year. The Rain program description was
revised at that time. To the best of my knowledge and belief the
statement on the Pricelessware list is accurate. It is also *specific*
- it is not a general treatise about all types of coolers and their
effects.

Please cite the sources that back up your assertions of "hogwash"
"false information" etc. etc. etc.

Susan
Click to expand...

For sources: You say above that the statements are specific for Rain,
and not a general statement of cpu coolers. But, quoting from what you
say in the PL 2004 Rain statement in the note:

"NOTES: Windows NT/2000/XP don't need CPU cooling programs that execute
HLT instructions (such as Rain) because they already comes with an
option to execute HLT instructions when the CPU is idle."

That seems very general, particularly when you state Windows XP...don't
need cpu cooling..."

I remeber you "researched" it last year, unfortunately coming to an
incorrect conclusion. Your conclusion is not consistent or sensible
with the several of us who reported 7 degree or more cooling as measured
on our machines when running VCool on XP. Of course the way to research
it would be to install it on a VIA mainboard with an Athlon CPU, set the
options correctly and see for yourself.

You could also visit the author's site: http://vcool.occludo.net/
and note the extensive reference to Windows 2000, NT, and XP and
instructions on configuring for these OS's. Where VCool apparently does
not yet work is with the NVidia chipset. It remains VIA specific. But
on VIA boards running any version of Windows 98 and higher, including
XP, it does enable cooling. In the options when running XP, the idle
loop should not be enabled, while cool bit and halt detect should be
enabled. Depending on the mother board, you need to select which temp
sensor is the cpu and which the system. On my Shuttle board, for
instance, sensor 2 is the cpu and 1 the system. In the options dialog,
these must be selected (the default is sensor 1 for the cpu -- change it
to 2.)

Arguing about this is a bit like arguing whether it is snowing outside.
On a VIA / Athon machine / Win XP just take a few minutes and run it
(version 1.8b10). But I am not asking that VCool be included in the PL,
that is up to enough users nominating and voting. What I am asking is
that the false, general statement, that Win 2000, and XP don't benefit
from software coolers be pulled, or made specific to Rain. The
statement should read that Rain does not work witn Win XP and not
suggest that no cpu cooler work with XP because XP can't benefit from
software cpu cooler -- this is the false statement in PL 2004 (and
2003).
 
Please cite the sources that back up your assertions of "hogwash"
"false information" etc. etc. etc.

Susan
Click to expand...

Susan, you can also just go to Google Groups search (their usenet search
page) and type in Vcool Windows XP. You will see posts from other
newsgroups about VCool cooling in XP. For instance, this quote from the
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips group:

"http://vcool.occludo.net/ This thing lowers my T-bird 1.33 temp from 49C
to 39C. It works fantastic with Windows XP. I have the AMD 761 chip,
which it supposedly has limited support for, but it works fine."

And this quote from alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.epox

"i run windows xp pro w/SP1 and vcool knocks off 10C from the normal temp.
(fan cooling - coolermaster foc38 - i think) i use Vcool 1.8 beta 10a
and also have the 8kha+ It also had the same effects with win98se and
winxp pro without SP1"

This from alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus

"From a cold boot the CPU increases from about 45 degrees to about 75
degrees... VCool software will bring the CPU back down again to about 48
....A7M266 bios 1005, Athlon 1.4ghz ... Windows XP"

The alt.comp.freeware newsgroup is an excellent discussion group, and
pricelessware list quite valuable. And I thank you for all the good work
you do for these. I would like to see the misleading statement (wrong
statement) in the Rain description pulled. No one could read the Rain
note about Win XP and interpret any other way than saying XP does not
benefit from software cpu cooling. If in a future version of the PL you
want to include VCool for those running XP and Win 2000, that would be
better still, but at least pull the false information.

--
Dennis Roark

(e-mail address removed)
Starting Points:
http://sio.midco.net/denro/www
 
Dennis said:
Arguing about this is a bit like arguing whether it is snowing outside.
On a VIA / Athon machine / Win XP just take a few minutes and run it
(version 1.8b10). But I am not asking that VCool be included in the PL,
that is up to enough users nominating and voting. What I am asking is
that the false, general statement, that Win 2000, and XP don't benefit
from software coolers be pulled, or made specific to Rain. The
statement should read that Rain does not work witn Win XP and not
suggest that no cpu cooler work with XP because XP can't benefit from
software cpu cooler -- this is the false statement in PL 2004 (and
2003).
Click to expand...

The statement used to read that way does *not* read that now:

old description:

Rain (freeware) OS: Win9x/ME (NT/2000/XP do not need coolers)
(English)
Rain is a CPU cooler program. Originally designed as tool for the
serious overclocker, this is a cooler program with no frills or extras.
It doesn't need them. Rain issues the HLT (halt) command during periods
of inactivity and the processor remains cooler because of it. Plain and
simple. The benefits of running a cooler CPU are that it reduces power
consumption, can extend laptop battery life, and prevents CPU heat
related freezes and lockups. More important, it can prolong the life of
your PC.

-----------

current description:

Rain
(Freeware) (unsupported)
OS: Windows 9x
Languages: English
Description: Rain is a CPU cooler program. Originally designed as tool
for the serious overclocker, this is a cooler program with no frills or
extras. It doesn't need them. Rain issues the HLT (halt) command during
periods of inactivity and the processor remains cooler because of it.
Plain and simple. The benefits of running a cooler CPU are that it
reduces power consumption, can extend laptop battery life, and prevents
CPU heat related freezes and lockups. More important, it can prolong the
life of your PC. NOTES: Windows NT/2000/XP don't need CPU cooling
programs that execute HLT instructions (such as Rain) because they
already comes with an option to execute HLT instructions when the CPU is
idle.

==========

FYI:

Rain version 1.0 FAQ

Q: How do Rain and Waterfall work?
A: They're both small programs that issue HLT commands to idle parts of
the CPU, so that they don't generate heat while they're idle.

Q: Do Rain and Waterfall work under Windows NT?
A: No. Windows NT doesn't need CPU cooling programs that execute HLT
instructions, such as Rain, Waterfall and CPUIdle, because it already
comes with an option to execute HLT instructions when the CPU is idle.

Copyright (c) 1998, Leading Wintech

Rain version 2.0 FAQ

Q: How do Rain and Waterfall work?
A: They're both small programs that issue HLT commands to idle parts of
the CPU, so that they don't generate heat while they're idle.

Q: Do Rain and Waterfall work under Windows NT?
A: No. Windows NT doesn't need CPU cooling programs that execute HLT
instructions, such as Rain, Waterfall and CPUIdle, because it already
comes with an option to execute HLT instructions when the CPU is idle.

Copyright (c) 1998, Leading Wintech

Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
 
Dennis said:
What I am asking is
that the false, general statement, that Win 2000, and XP don't benefit
from software coolers be pulled, or made specific to Rain. The
statement should read that Rain does not work witn Win XP and not
suggest that no cpu cooler work with XP because XP can't benefit from
software cpu cooler -- this is the false statement in PL 2004 (and
2003).
Click to expand...

"NOTES: Windows NT/2000/XP don't need CPU cooling programs that
execute HLT instructions (such as Rain) because they already comes
with an option to execute HLT instructions when the CPU is idle."

I think you are misreading the above. "Don't need" is not the same
thing as "no cpu cooler work(s) with XP", nor do I think it means the
same as "can't benefit from". (I don't *need* a million dollars, but
it would sure work with my budget, and be something I would "benifit"
from.)

Were the comparisons you mention made with the native XP cooling
option Sue mentions? Ifso, then her note would be inaccurate, and
Vcool should be considered, IMO. But I think your objections are
poorly worded, and that poor wording is confusing the issue.
 
No one could read
the Rain note about Win XP and interpret any other way than saying XP
does not benefit from software cpu cooling. If in a future version of
the PL you want to include VCool for those running XP and Win 2000,
that would be better still, but at least pull the false information.
Click to expand...

I've never messed with "coolers" before and this is the first time I'm
reading the PL description,
i.e."NOTES: Windows NT/2000/XP don't need CPU cooling programs that execute
HLT instructions (such as Rain) because they already comes with an option
to execute HLT instructions when the CPU is idle."

Sounds to me that XP doesn't need a cooler *that uses the HLT instruction*.
I don't understand it to mean than *no coolers* are beneficial. imho
 
"NOTES: Windows NT/2000/XP don't need CPU cooling programs that
execute HLT instructions (such as Rain) because they already comes
with an option to execute HLT instructions when the CPU is idle."

I think you are misreading the above. "Don't need" is not the same
thing as "no cpu cooler work(s) with XP", nor do I think it means the
same as "can't benefit from". (I don't *need* a million dollars, but
it would sure work with my budget, and be something I would "benifit"
from.)

Were the comparisons you mention made with the native XP cooling
option Sue mentions? Ifso, then her note would be inaccurate, and
Vcool should be considered, IMO. But I think your objections are
poorly worded, and that poor wording is confusing the issue.
Click to expand...

I agree that the wording of the note in the rain description is poorly
worded. "Don't need" is ambiguous. Win 95 and Win 98 also "don't need"
any cpu software coolers. No operating system "needs" a software
cooler, but ALL (Win 98, Win XP, Win 2000) can benefit from them. You
shouldn't interpret the poorly worded note "don't need" one way when
referring to Win 98 and another way when referring to Win XP. They have
the same status and as VCool demonstrates they both can benefit from
software cooling. It is a bit like saying that a Windows PC doesn't
need a 17 or 19 inch monitor: true, but they can benefit from them. The
word "need" is not an appropriate word for the note.

Now the "source" of the "fact" the PL quotes regarding not needing
cooling if running Win XP appears to be from the authors of Rain. That
statement is simply incorrect. It may well be that their program cannot
benefit Win XP, but other programs, such as VCool can and as what I
quoted in my note, they do.

But, hey, I will leave it alone and make no more comments. The
ignorance amazes me. If you all want to needlessly cook your systems
with high temps while running win XP, feel free to do so. Those few of
us that can apply a little logic to the issue and do the bold,
incredible thing of actually testing out a conjecture, we will happily
continue to use VCool with win XP and watch our cpu temps drop 10
degrees. Don't forget to renew your memberships in the flat earth
society, along with other dolts who don't believe in actual observation.
 
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