removable setting

  • Thread starter Thread starter Todd and Margo Chester
  • Start date Start date
T

Todd and Margo Chester

Hi All,

Where is the setting to manually tell XP
that a drive is removable?

Many thanks,
--Todd
 
It makes no difference to Windows whether a drive is removable. The drive is either connected or it's not. What particularly do you want to do?

Steven
 
It makes no difference to Windows whether a drive is removable. The
drive is either connected or it's not. What particularly do you want to do?

I want to remove a "Hot Swappable" drive as if it was a USB memory stick

--Tony
 
drive is either connected or it's not. What particularly do you want to
do?

I want to remove a "Hot Swappable" drive as if it was a USB memory stick

--Tony


Tony:
It would really help if you would provide details re your "Hot Swappable
drive". Is this a PATA (IDE) HD installed in a mobile rack designed for
removable hard drives? Tell us exactly what this device is and how it's
presently connected in your system
Anna
 
Anna said:
Tony:
It would really help if you would provide details re your "Hot Swappable
drive". Is this a PATA (IDE) HD installed in a mobile rack designed for
removable hard drives? Tell us exactly what this device is and how it's
presently connected in your system
Anna

Anna,

It is a SATA hard drive in a removable, hot swappable carrier
and is connected to am Adaptec Serial ATA 1205SA controller
card, which is also hot swappable, but has no bios setting
for removable drives.

I gave you no detail on purpose. I did not want readers to go
off on a tangent, like telling to set it in BIOS. I am looking
for something like, "go into device manager and set it in the properties
tab for your hard drive". (Sadly, that only works in Win98.)

--Todd
 
Todd and Margo Chester said:
Anna,
It is a SATA hard drive in a removable, hot swappable carrier
and is connected to am Adaptec Serial ATA 1205SA controller
card, which is also hot swappable, but has no bios setting
for removable drives.

I gave you no detail on purpose. I did not want readers to go
off on a tangent, like telling to set it in BIOS. I am looking
for something like, "go into device manager and set it in the properties
tab for your hard drive". (Sadly, that only works in Win98.)

--Todd


Todd (or Tony):
First of all, don't be too concerned about potential responders to your
query (whatever it might be) "go(ing) off on a tangent". It's really best to
provide as much relevant & detailed information as you can re your problem
and objective(s) together with the specifics of the software and/or hardware
involved. Frankly, it's when the poster *doesn't* provide this kind of
information that causes the responders to "go off on a tangent".

Anyway, back to your problem...

If your SATA HD has been designated by its manufacturer that it has
"hot-swappable" (more precisely, "hot-pluggable") capability, *and* its
controller provides similar capability, then the drive is hot-pluggable in
the sense that you can connect or disconnect the drive while the system is
running without data loss or corruption or damage to the drive. While
there's no need to access Device Manager or other internal XP process, the
user should check his/her BIOS to determine if there's any element that
bears on hot-plugging (hot-swapping) and set that element accordingly.

In addition to the preceding, the SATA specifications for "hot-plugging"
call for:
1. Power to the SATA HD be through its 15-pin SATA power connector and *not*
the Molex connector, and,
2. That the power and signal/data cables be *simultaneously*
connected/disconnected.
It would seem that the only practical way this could be achieved is through
the use of mobile racks designed for SATA HDs whereby the removable tray can
simply be inserted or removed in the rack to effect these simultaneous
connects/disconnects.

One other consideration...
SATA native hot plug as defined by the specification requires the use of the
15-pin SATA power connector, *not* the 4-pin Molex power plug commonly used
to connect IDE devices and frequently found on SATA HDs alongside the SATA
power connector. Furthermore, the specification also calls for a requirement
that the power signal cables be connected/disconnected *simultaneously* in
order for native SATA hot plugging to be supported. (In our case, we
accomplish this by mounting the external SATA HDs in the removable
tray/caddy in mobile racks so a simple push or pull on the removable tray's
handle simultaneously connects/disconnects both the power/signal cables.)

I have to admit that every SATA-IO HD (the 3 Gb/s data transfer interface)
that we've worked with for nearly a year now (including WD, Hitachi,
Samsung, and Seagate, all SATA-IO drives) has proven to be hot-pluggable. I
would add that in many instances while experimenting with the hot-plugging
capability of the afore-mentioned SATA drives while they were connected as
external devices, we've connected/disconnected the drives without regard to
any simultaneous connection or disconnection of the data & power connectors
and we suffered no ill effects that we're aware of in terms of data
loss/corruption or damage to the drives. At least none to date. Even in
cases where the SATA HD received its power through the Molex plug we didn't
run into any problems, but we really did not do extensive testing using that
configuration. In nearly every case power was applied to the SATA HD though
its 15-pin power connector.
Anna
 
Todd (or Tony):
First of all, don't be too concerned about potential responders to your
query (whatever it might be) "go(ing) off on a tangent". It's really best to
provide as much relevant & detailed information as you can re your problem
and objective(s) together with the specifics of the software and/or hardware
involved. Frankly, it's when the poster *doesn't* provide this kind of
information that causes the responders to "go off on a tangent".

Anyway, back to your problem...

If your SATA HD has been designated by its manufacturer that it has
"hot-swappable" (more precisely, "hot-pluggable") capability, *and* its
controller provides similar capability, then the drive is hot-pluggable in
the sense that you can connect or disconnect the drive while the system is
running without data loss or corruption or damage to the drive. While
there's no need to access Device Manager or other internal XP process, the
user should check his/her BIOS to determine if there's any element that
bears on hot-plugging (hot-swapping) and set that element accordingly.

In addition to the preceding, the SATA specifications for "hot-plugging"
call for:
1. Power to the SATA HD be through its 15-pin SATA power connector and *not*
the Molex connector, and,
2. That the power and signal/data cables be *simultaneously*
connected/disconnected.
It would seem that the only practical way this could be achieved is through
the use of mobile racks designed for SATA HDs whereby the removable tray can
simply be inserted or removed in the rack to effect these simultaneous
connects/disconnects.

One other consideration...
SATA native hot plug as defined by the specification requires the use of the
15-pin SATA power connector, *not* the 4-pin Molex power plug commonly used
to connect IDE devices and frequently found on SATA HDs alongside the SATA
power connector. Furthermore, the specification also calls for a requirement
that the power signal cables be connected/disconnected *simultaneously* in
order for native SATA hot plugging to be supported. (In our case, we
accomplish this by mounting the external SATA HDs in the removable
tray/caddy in mobile racks so a simple push or pull on the removable tray's
handle simultaneously connects/disconnects both the power/signal cables.)

I have to admit that every SATA-IO HD (the 3 Gb/s data transfer interface)
that we've worked with for nearly a year now (including WD, Hitachi,
Samsung, and Seagate, all SATA-IO drives) has proven to be hot-pluggable. I
would add that in many instances while experimenting with the hot-plugging
capability of the afore-mentioned SATA drives while they were connected as
external devices, we've connected/disconnected the drives without regard to
any simultaneous connection or disconnection of the data & power connectors
and we suffered no ill effects that we're aware of in terms of data
loss/corruption or damage to the drives. At least none to date. Even in
cases where the SATA HD received its power through the Molex plug we didn't
run into any problems, but we really did not do extensive testing using that
configuration. In nearly every case power was applied to the SATA HD though
its 15-pin power connector.
Anna


Hi Anna,

Although you did not answer the question, I do appreciate your
detailed explanation of how things work. Do you know the answer?
If it helps, here is a more detailed description of my system:

My system is also multiboot. My backup drive, the one in question
here, has all the gismos needed to pull it in and out (hot swap
carrier, hot swap adapter). As a matter of fact, it is very easy to
remove and swap drives under Cent OS 4.1 (Linux).

To remove:
umount /backup
turn the key off and pull the drive out of the carrier

To mount:
insert the drive and turn the key on
mount /backup

It is a total pain in the butt to have to power off W2K-Pro and
XP-Pro to swap the drive.

What I want is for this drive to act as a removable drive,
like a USB memory stick. That way I can click on the removable
drive ejector in the task bar and tell it to eject my removable
drive. W98 had such a setting in device manager. It seems to
have disappeared in W2K & XP. (P.S., I suspect that "removable"
can be forced as a registry setting, but ...)

--Todd
 


Todd and Margo Chester said:
Although you did not answer the question, I do appreciate your
detailed explanation of how things work. Do you know the answer?
If it helps, here is a more detailed description of my system:

My system is also multiboot. My backup drive, the one in question
here, has all the gismos needed to pull it in and out (hot swap
carrier, hot swap adapter). As a matter of fact, it is very easy to
remove and swap drives under Cent OS 4.1 (Linux).

To remove:
umount /backup
turn the key off and pull the drive out of the carrier

To mount:
insert the drive and turn the key on
mount /backup

It is a total pain in the butt to have to power off W2K-Pro and
XP-Pro to swap the drive.

What I want is for this drive to act as a removable drive,
like a USB memory stick. That way I can click on the removable
drive ejector in the task bar and tell it to eject my removable
drive. W98 had such a setting in device manager. It seems to
have disappeared in W2K & XP. (P.S., I suspect that "removable"
can be forced as a registry setting, but ...)

--Todd

Todd:
As I previously indicated - it would have been much better if, in your
original posting, you had furnished the details re your system and your
objective, rather than a generalized query that really begs for more
information before an intelligent response can be made that will be useful
to you.

Be that as it may, here we are...

As I previously indicated, if the SATA HD is specified to be "hot-pluggable"
and the SATA controller to which it is connected is also specified to be
"hot-pluggable", then the device is "hot-pluggable". Again, this means the
device can be connected/disconnected while the system is running with no
presumed data corruption/data loss or damage to the drive. Again, please
review what I've previously indicated re the *precise* specifications for a
SATA HD to be hot-pluggable.

If your SATA HD/controller combination meet the specifications as indicated
(as I presume they do from your latest comments), then the device is
"hot-pluggable". There is no need, as I previously stated, to invoke any
setting in Device Manager. There is no need to use the Safely Remove
Hardware icon in the Notification Area (I assume that's what you were
referring to as the "removable drive ejector"). You can simply disconnect
the drive by turning the keylock of your "carrier" to the OFF position and
remove the drive from its removable tray. (I'm assuming the device you're
working with is a mobile rack designed for a SATA HD or something similar -
you never indicated what this "carrier" is). You perform the reverse
operation when connecting the drive. There is no need to power off the
machine.
Anna
 
Anna wrote:

Todd:
As I previously indicated - it would have been much better if, in your
original posting, you had furnished the details re your system and your
objective, rather than a generalized query that really begs for more
information before an intelligent response can be made that will be useful
to you.

Be that as it may, here we are...

As I previously indicated, if the SATA HD is specified to be "hot-pluggable"
and the SATA controller to which it is connected is also specified to be
"hot-pluggable", then the device is "hot-pluggable". Again, this means the
device can be connected/disconnected while the system is running with no
presumed data corruption/data loss or damage to the drive. Again, please
review what I've previously indicated re the *precise* specifications for a
SATA HD to be hot-pluggable.

If your SATA HD/controller combination meet the specifications as indicated
(as I presume they do from your latest comments), then the device is
"hot-pluggable". There is no need, as I previously stated, to invoke any
setting in Device Manager. There is no need to use the Safely Remove
Hardware icon in the Notification Area (I assume that's what you were
referring to as the "removable drive ejector"). You can simply disconnect
the drive by turning the keylock of your "carrier" to the OFF position and
remove the drive from its removable tray. (I'm assuming the device you're
working with is a mobile rack designed for a SATA HD or something similar -
you never indicated what this "carrier" is). You perform the reverse
operation when connecting the drive. There is no need to power off the
machine.
Anna
Anna!

Yikes! Only if I want a bunch of zero length files! I MUST
FLUSH THE CACHE FIRST! If you think otherwise, try removing a
USB or Firewire drive without first using the "Safely Remove Hardware".
(Kinda of like flipping the power of on Windows without doing a
shutdown.)

Do you know how to set the drive as "removable?"

--Todd
 
Todd and Margo Chester said:
Anna!
Yikes! Only if I want a bunch of zero length files! I MUST
FLUSH THE CACHE FIRST! If you think otherwise, try removing a
USB or Firewire drive without first using the "Safely Remove Hardware".
(Kinda of like flipping the power of on Windows without doing a
shutdown.)

Do you know how to set the drive as "removable?"

--Todd


Todd:
I honestly don't know how I can make this more clearer than I have, so I'll
leave it at that and just comment on your latest comment...

Although this is not the issue you raised (and really has no relevance to
that issue), let me comment on your reference re not using the Safely Remove
Hardware icon when disconnecting a USB/Firewire external HD and your
inference that this will cause massive data corruption. I, together with I
guess hundreds of thousands of users around the globe, do this every day
without problems of any kind. In Device Manager, in the Disk Drives section
under the Policies tab of the USB device being used, is an option that reads
"Optimize for quick removal". The description for that option indicates that
the device can be disconnected "without using the Safe Removal icon". Can I,
or anyone else, give *absolute* assurance to you or anyone else that no
problems of any kind will occur when doing so? Of course not. So if you feel
it's necessary to always invoke the Safely Remove icon process whenever you
disconnect an external USB/Firewire device, then by all means do so.
Anna
 
Anna said:
In Device Manager, in the Disk Drives section
under the Policies tab of the USB device being used, is an option that reads
"Optimize for quick removal".

This would cause the OS to "Flush" to the device every time someone
writes to it. This would work for me, as long as nothing was writing
to the drive when I jerked it out. 1) How do I invoke this option
on a regular hard drive?

I would be even better if the hard drive showed up in the "Safely Remove
Hardware icon". That way there would be no doubt as to when the OS
was finished with it. It would also save the performance hit on
not caching to the OS as well. 2) Do you know the setting for this
as well?

If you do not know the answer to either of the two questions above,
please do not answer: it keep others from answering, as they think it
has already been replied to.

--Todd
 
Todd said:
What I want is for this drive to act as a removable drive,
like a USB memory stick. That way I can click on the removable
drive ejector in the task bar and tell it to eject my removable
drive.

As a replacement for the 'savely remove hardware' dialog,
you could try my command line tool RemoveDrive:
http://www.uwe-sieber.de/files/removedrive.zip

Open a command prompt and enter

removedrive x:

where x is the drive letter to remove.

I've seen that it correctely prepares non removable SATA drives
for save removal. But I was not allowed to remove and reattach
the drive (not my computer). Please let me know if it works...


Greetings from Germany

Uwe
 
Uwe said:
As a replacement for the 'savely remove hardware' dialog,
you could try my command line tool RemoveDrive:
http://www.uwe-sieber.de/files/removedrive.zip

Open a command prompt and enter

removedrive x:

where x is the drive letter to remove.

I've seen that it correctely prepares non removable SATA drives
for save removal. But I was not allowed to remove and reattach
the drive (not my computer). Please let me know if it works...


Greetings from Germany

Uwe

YIPEE!!! I will contact you on your eMail as to how to
best test it. :-) :-) :-)

--Todd
 
Back
Top