Registry Cleanup

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PT

I run WinXP Home on a new (several month old) Desktop.

I downloaded a shareware program "Registry Booster" from the Ziff Davis PC
Magazine website. I ran it in diagnostic mode. It came up with 150+
"problems". Most all were of the forms:

missing or invalid path
missing CLSID
missing or bad file
missing file association

I have the option to make a backup and then "repair". But I ran the program
mostly out of curiosity - not because of any perceived problems.
Are problems of this type generally benign?--

PT
 
DON'T DO IT! Leave well enough alone! These things cause more harm
than good and unless you have a full backup of the registry and
considerable knowledge of the registry don't bother with these cleaners.
The errors reported are absolutely of little or no consequence, benign
as you call them. Removing keys that the cleaner misdiagnosed might
cause considerable grief.

By all means keep on exploring and learn about the registry, dig in it,
look at it, read about it, familiarize yourself with it, but DON'T TRUST
any of these registry fixers unless you fully understand what it is that
they want to delete. Few of these things have a 100% batting average
and many are just plain destructive. If you want to experiment at least
start by backing up the registry. See here:
http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/

Erunt is a registry backup tool. NTRegopt is a registry compactor, it
remove no entries, it just make the it smaller, perfectly safe to use.

John
 
lol, it'll be intersting to see what responses you get from this
as there are a couple of opposing viewpoints on the subject.
In reality, it's pretty much harmless as long as it's not
generating any error messages. You can safely ignore it and are
very likely never going to notice anything being a problem. Over
time, those numbers will get larger most likely, but in general
will still remain harmless unless they get so humongous in number
that you notice the slowdown in speed when the Registry has to be
accessed.
OTOH, and I'm in this camp, I don't like to let things like
that ride, for a lot of reasons. But I'm not telling you to fix
it or dire things will happen to you. A lot depends on what you
do with your computer and how you use your software and how much
you install/uninstall programs and downloads, and ... it's a long
list.
On my own machine, I'd "fix" them for several reasons, not the
least of which is to be able to have a clean registry in case I
need to go in there and do some work on it. The downside of that
however, is that there are many good, and many not so good,
registry "cleaners" out there. I've never heard of Registry
Booster and so have no opinion on it.
The most important part of a registry cleaner, IMO, is an
option to be able to put back whatever it changes on you, just in
case. Personally, I use Norton SystemWorks for registry and
general system cleanup, but some people think that's bad, too
because of a perceived problem with Norton.
I can't think of any of the names of the free and better
registry cleaners out there; perhaps someone will jump in with a
recommendation.

Now if you'll pardon me, I think I'll go do a One Button Checkup,
and watch the snowballs fly over my head ;-).

Pop
 
PT said:
I run WinXP Home on a new (several month old) Desktop.

I downloaded a shareware program "Registry Booster" from the Ziff Davis PC
Magazine website. I ran it in diagnostic mode. It came up with 150+
"problems". Most all were of the forms:

missing or invalid path
missing CLSID
missing or bad file
missing file association

I have the option to make a backup and then "repair". But I ran the program
mostly out of curiosity - not because of any perceived problems.
Are problems of this type generally benign?--

PT


Get rid of that piece of crapware, immediately. (For future reference,
Ziff-Davis is not a horribly reliable source for computer information
and especially advice. They tend to say whatever their advertisers pay
them to say.

What specific problem are you experiencing that you *know* beyond
all reasonable doubt will be fixed by using a registry "cleaner?" If
you do have a problem that is rooted in the registry, it would be far
better to simply edit (after backing up, of course) only the specific
key(s) and/or value(s) that are causing the problem. Why use a shotgun
when a scalpel will do the job? Additionally, the manually changing of
one or two registry entries is far less likely to have the dire
consequences of allowing an automated product to make multiple changes
simultaneously.

The registry contains all of the operating system's "knowledge" of
the computer's hardware devices, installed software, the location of the
device drivers, and the computer's configuration. A misstep in the
registry can have severe consequences. One should not even turning
loose a poorly understood automated "cleaner," unless he is fully
confident that he knows *exactly* what is going to happen as a result of
each and every change. Having seen the results of inexperienced people
using automated registry "cleaners," I can only advise all but the most
experienced computer technicians (and/or hobbyists) to avoid them all.
Experience has shown me that such tools simply are not safe in the hands
of the inexperienced user.

The only thing needed to safely maintain your registry is knowledge
and Regedit.exe. If you lack the knowledge and experience to maintain
your registry by yourself, then you also lack the knowledge and
experience to safely configure and use any automated registry "cleaner,"
no matter how safe they claim to be.

Further, no one has ever demonstrated, to my satisfaction, that the
use of an automated registry "cleaner," particularly by an untrained,
inexperienced computer user, does any real good. There's certainly been
no empirical evidence offered to demonstrate that the use of such
products to "clean" WinXP's registry improves a computer's performance
or stability.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin
 
No problem - I had no intention of allowing any product to do a massive or
even a minor mucking about on my regisstry. I was just curious whether any
such product is likely to turn up such a large number of purported problems,
or whether the problems are mostly the resultin residue of previously
deleted programs, etc..
 
PT said:
No problem - I had no intention of allowing any product to do a massive or
even a minor mucking about on my regisstry. I was just curious whether any
such product is likely to turn up such a large number of purported problems,
or whether the problems are mostly the resultin residue of previously
deleted programs, etc..


Well, actually, almost all of the so-called "free," "Shareware," and/or
"evaluation" versions of purported registry "cleaners" will present
large numbers of allegedly critical errors, most of which can be fixed
"only if you purchased the full or 'professional' version." It's a
common scam.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin
 
John John said:
DON'T DO IT! Leave well enough alone!

Spoken like a truely closed mind with no real world experience in
reliable sysems and apps.

These things cause more harm
than good and unless you have a full backup of the registry and

A full backup of the Registry isn't much use in XP; you need to
use the System State backed up.

considerable knowledge of the registry don't bother with these
cleaners.

These "cleaners" are specifically FOR people without the time or
ability to gain considerable knowledge of the registry. Your
sour grapes are not everyone's sour grapes. If you know the
registry this well, then you also have the ability to know that a
good registry cleaner is a goldmine to have.

The errors reported are absolutely of little or no
consequence, benign as you call them.

For the moment, that's true in this case.

Removing keys that the cleaner misdiagnosed might
cause considerable grief.

Most decent cleaners put the problems they find into reasonably
understandable lay language that's easy enough to verify on one's
own without having to know the internals of the registry. If it
says something doesn't exist, it's easy enough to check that out.
If it says a shortcut is extraneous, that's easy enough to check
out, too. Most of the better ones will even give you a jump to
the Registry location so you can see it for yourself. They also
let you automatically fix, manually fix, ignore, or do nothing.
It -can- get confusing, as in the case of mscoree.dll, but ...
that's OK too because one is learning waht the various pieces are
used for.
If the software knows the registry as you seem to claim you
know it, and he'd better to have a good app, then it's pretty
simple task to verify the strings and keys. I daresay their
knowledge of the registry will be far above yours.
By all means keep on exploring and learn about the registry,
dig in it, look at it, read about it, familiarize yourself with
it,

That part's good advice if anyone has the wherewithal to do so.

but DON'T TRUST
any of these registry fixers unless you fully understand what
it is that they want to delete.

and that part's just meaningless. It's just not that hard to
understand what a good registry cleaner is going to do if one has
any reading comprehension at all and has taken the time to read.

Few of these things have a 100% batting average
and many are just plain destructive.

They are a LOT less destructive than the neophyte who jumps into
his registry and breaks the system because he knows enough to be
dangerous but doesn't realize that. I know, then he can "simply"
import his whole registry, right? Wrong! Try it and you'll see
why it's a bad thing pretty quickly.


If you want to experiment at least
start by backing up the registry. See here:
http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/

Erunt is a registry backup tool.

Erunt is actually a respectable tool. I don't use it because I
can do everything it can do and more with ntbackup, but ... it
does function, or it used to, fine.


NTRegopt is a registry compactor, it
remove no entries, it just make the it smaller, perfectly safe
to use.

Umm, NO, it does NOT make the Registry smaller!
If you'll read your own reference you'll see that it, and
others like it in fact, only do a form of "defrag" on the
registry to streamline it a little. And, it has some stability
problems on a machine that may have otherwise undetected
problems. One will almost never achieve ANY perceptible
improvements in anything from running a registry optimizer.

Instead of being so closed minded about these things you should
turn your interests to figuring out the reality of these things
and learn what the actual cases are. People with opinions like
yours are a wart on the ass of computing.

I'm not a closed mind, and will always listen to opposing
sensible viewpoints, especially when backed up with verifiable
facts, but a closed mind such as yours cannot tell me anything I
would consider worth following up on unless it contained
verifiable evidence. You're like the proverbial clock that tells
the exact time twice a day for a split second.

Pop
 
Bruce,

My previous rant in this thread was not directed at you. In
general, you're up front, and I agree with you in almost all your
comments, indluding this one.
Yeah, I know, so what's that worth ;-)? Point is, I've
seen you around enough to know you know pretty much what you're
talking about. We just live in neighboring camps.

You said you've never seen
... "empirical evidence offered to demonstrate that the use of
such products to "clean" WinXP's registry improves a computer's
performance or stability"

Would you like to hear about some empirical evidence, or do you
mean you have to experience it yourself? I have a couple of
machines coming in, one of which I suspect is a registry problem
left over from a virus removal that I bet my "cleaner" can
repair.
If you'd like I'd be happy to report back what I find on that
machine, whether I'm right or wrong. Or does that simply fit
anecdotal in your view?
I have several anecdotal experiences where I've seen the
results of a registry cleaning improving things, usually boot
time from very serious overbloat. But I've mentioned those
before, either here or on other groups; not sure.

I'm not trying to change your mind; it's just the many
occurrences of "always" and "never" that get out of hand and I
tend to speak up when I see misinformation in general. I do not
think you provided misinformation.

Regards,

Pop
 
That's probably correct. Probably 99% of the time that's exactly
where the excess fodder comes from. Many programs leave little
tidbits of themselves strewn around the registry and even the
hard drive, especially the more poorly written ones.

Cheers,

Pop
 
PopS said:
Bruce,

My previous rant in this thread was not directed at you. In
general, you're up front, and I agree with you in almost all your
comments, indluding this one.
Yeah, I know, so what's that worth ;-)? Point is, I've
seen you around enough to know you know pretty much what you're
talking about. We just live in neighboring camps.

You said you've never seen

Would you like to hear about some empirical evidence, or do you
mean you have to experience it yourself?


To be honest, I would prefer seeing the results of large scale testing
by an *independent* laboratory (such as Consumer Reports might have) on
hundreds of thousands of indifferently maintained home PCs, consisting
of hundreds of different brands and models, with an equal number of
different software configurations. The results from such a test would
be scientifically meaningful.

I have a couple of
machines coming in, one of which I suspect is a registry problem
left over from a virus removal that I bet my "cleaner" can
repair.
If you'd like I'd be happy to report back what I find on that
machine, whether I'm right or wrong. Or does that simply fit
anecdotal in your view?
I have several anecdotal experiences where I've seen the
results of a registry cleaning improving things, usually boot
time from very serious overbloat. But I've mentioned those
before, either here or on other groups; not sure.



Your (or mine, for that matter) ability to safely use a registry
cleaner really has absolutely no bearing upon the overall safety of such
products in the hands of the average home computer user, unfortunately.

I have always conceded that a good registry scanning tool, in the hands
of an experienced and knowledgeable technician or hobbyist can be a
useful time-saving diagnostic tool, as long as it's not allowed to make
any changes automatically. But I really don't think that there are any
registry cleaners that are truly safe for the general public to use.
Experience has proven just the opposite: such tools simply are not safe
in the hands of the inexperienced user.




--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin
 
STOP!!! Always do a system restore point (start-->all
programs-->accessories-->system tools-->system restore), before you clean the
registry! I rec. live.safety.com's tool (made by microsoft), it
automatically does a safety check first, then cleans up the mess!
 
Where can that MS program be found ?
I use to use Reg Clean for Win98SE. It was a MS program.
Would this program still work on Win XP ?
Thanks !
 
Nancy said:
Where can that MS program be found ?


What Microsoft Program?

I use to use Reg Clean for Win98SE. It was a MS program.
Would this program still work on Win XP ?
Thanks !


RegClean was designed for Win9x operating systems, and didn't work
real well on them. It's been discontinued and unsupported for years,
now. I certainly wouldn't advise trying to use it on a modern OS.

Why would you think you need to clean your registry?

What specific problem are you experiencing that you *know* beyond
all reasonable doubt will be fixed by using a registry cleaner? If you
do have a problem that is rooted in the registry, it would be far better
to simply edit (after backing up, of course) only the specific key(s)
and/or value(s) that are causing the problem. Why use a shotgun when a
scalpel will do the job? Additionally, the manually changing of one or
two registry entries is far less likely to have the dire consequences of
allowing an automated product to make multiple changes simultaneously.

The registry contains all of the operating system's "knowledge" of
the computer's hardware devices, installed software, the location of the
device drivers, and the computer's configuration. A misstep in the
registry can have severe consequences. One should not even turning
loose a poorly understood automated "cleaner," unless he is fully
confident that he knows *exactly* what is going to happen as a result of
each and every change. Having seen the results of inexperienced people
using automated registry "cleaners," I can only advise all but the most
experienced computer technicians (and/or hobbyists) to avoid them all.
Experience has shown me that such tools simply are not safe in the hands
of the inexperienced user.

The only thing needed to safely clean your registry is knowledge
and Regedit.exe. If you lack the knowledge and experience to maintain
your registry by yourself, then you also lack the knowledge and
experience to safely configure and use any automated registry cleaner,
no matter how safe they claim to be.

Further, no one has ever demonstrated, to my satisfaction, that the
use of an automated registry cleaner, particularly by an untrained,
inexperienced computer user, does any real good. There's certainly been
no empirical evidence offered to demonstrate that the use of such
products to "clean" WinXP's registry improves a computer's performance
or stability.

I always use Regedit.exe. I trust my own experience and judgment
far more than I would any automated registry cleaner. I strongly
encourage others to acquire the knowledge, as well.




--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin
 
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