registered memory choices... please HELP!

[willbill]

i'm looking to get 2 1GB dimms
of DDR 333 ECC registered memory
for my new Opteron dualie mobo.
(still only got a single on it,
but that will change in ~5 months)

i note that memory prices (per newegg) are
down by 10-to-20% from 30 days ago.

i've currently got 2 512MB Kingston
Value RAM (KVR) dimms (KVR333X72RC25/512)
from newegg, roughly 18 months ago

i see 5 current choices on newegg
(ranging from $97 to $187(KVR))

what i do not fully understand is
the price disparity

i mean, mobos that use ECC registered
memory almost never permit overclocking

my current dimms are 9 chipps/side,
with chips on both sides. but they
are not too tall

i can understand that the cheapest
current choices (that newegg shows)
are taller dimms (Gigaram @ $96)

of the lower priced dimms (and less tall),
both Transcend ($97) and Corsair ($106)
catch my eye (i'm leaning to the Corsair)

is compatability with my current mobo
and/or RAM likely to be an issue?

i also can't help but note that Kingston
"ValueRAM" is the pricest of the 5 choices
(so much for the "value" in ValueRAM! (?))

any help/comments will be very appreciated

as an aside to keith: you owe me. <LOL>
(btw, i just bought SUSE 10.0 (50 bucks from
newegg, and any new comments on that will
also be appreciated!)

bill

 

[nobody]

i'm looking to get 2 1GB dimms
of DDR 333 ECC registered memory
for my new Opteron dualie mobo.
(still only got a single on it,
but that will change in ~5 months)

i note that memory prices (per newegg) are
down by 10-to-20% from 30 days ago.

i've currently got 2 512MB Kingston
Value RAM (KVR) dimms (KVR333X72RC25/512)
from newegg, roughly 18 months ago

i see 5 current choices on newegg
(ranging from $97 to $187(KVR))

what i do not fully understand is
the price disparity

i mean, mobos that use ECC registered
memory almost never permit overclocking
....snip...
bill

1. All Opterons, except the earliest 2003 vintage, support DDR400
registered. Since the memory controller is built-in, all motherboards
should support it. My MSI Master2-FAR does, even though the manual
lists only DDR333. The price differential does not justify using 333
because you leave some noticeable performance on the table.
2. I have the cheapest DDR400 ECC reg. I could find - no-name with
Samsung chips. So far have no problem (knock on wood). Even could OC
it about 10% (the whole thing - RAM, HT, CPUs), but dropped it back to
stock speed because the fans spin almost constantly at top RPM, and
they are quite noisy. So you can bet and save a few bucks by getting
the cheapest you can find. OTOH, if you want to be almost guaranteed
against any potential problem, I have one word for you - Crucial.

Good luck

NNN

 

[willbill]

1. All Opterons, except the earliest 2003 vintage, support DDR400
registered. Since the memory controller is built-in, all motherboards
should support it. My MSI Master2-FAR does, even though the manual
lists only DDR333. The price differential does not justify using 333
because you leave some noticeable performance on the table.

in my own experience, better/faster memory
doesn't make much of a diff re overall performance

e.g. i very recently went from a single 512MB stick
of DDR333 (on a Tyan S2875S) to two sticks of DDR400
256MB (512MB total) and it was only very slightly better
(in fact, it was damn hard to notice)

anyways, i've got 1GB of 333 (from my current machine, 2 512's,
but i was only using one of them due to issues with Win98SE)
for the new dualie mobo (a Supermicro) and i can't see any
reason to worry about 400

to me, price and compatibility are the issues

2. I have the cheapest DDR400 ECC reg. I could find - no-name with
Samsung chips. So far have no problem (knock on wood). Even could OC
it about 10% (the whole thing - RAM, HT, CPUs), but dropped it back to
stock speed because the fans spin almost constantly at top RPM, and
they are quite noisy. So you can bet and save a few bucks by getting
the cheapest you can find. OTOH, if you want to be almost guaranteed
against any potential problem, I have one word for you - Crucial.

i actually checked www.crucial.com *before* my post

they're way over the top on price (for 1GB sticks of
registered 333)

i'm still leaning towards the $106 per stick Corsair
(1GB/333 from newegg)

i still fail to understand what i'm gonna get from
spending $200/stick for 333 for KVR or Crucial

bill

 

[Keith]

i note that memory prices (per newegg) are
down by 10-to-20% from 30 days ago.

....and they'll likely be back up in 30 days. ;-/

i've currently got 2 512MB Kingston
Value RAM (KVR) dimms (KVR333X72RC25/512)
from newegg, roughly 18 months ago

i see 5 current choices on newegg
(ranging from $97 to $187(KVR))

For a pair, I assume.

what i do not fully understand is
the price disparity

Ok, how about Crucial CT6472Y335. $59 on Newegg.com and $95.99 on
crucial.com. *SAME* part number. 'splain that Lucy!

is compatability with my current mobo
and/or RAM likely to be an issue?

I don't trust no-name memory (Mine's all Crucial), but as long as
there is a forever warranty...

i also can't help but note that Kingston
"ValueRAM" is the pricest of the 5 choices
(so much for the "value" in ValueRAM! (?))

any help/comments will be very appreciated

as an aside to keith: you owe me. <LOL>
??

(btw, i just bought SUSE 10.0 (50 bucks from
newegg, and any new comments on that will
also be appreciated!)

I've been running 10.0 for a while. DualHead support went away for
my Matrox G550. I found a hack, but it killed the whole thing.
USB flash stick support is much better (but doesn't make up for the
loss of DualHead). I haven't had all that much time to play and
what I have I've spent trying to get my K6-III system back on the
air (need it for Windows). :-(

 

[willbill]

For a pair, I assume.

no. for 1 stick of 1GB DDR 333 registered memory

Ok, how about Crucial CT6472Y335. $59 on Newegg.com and $95.99 on
crucial.com. *SAME* part number. 'splain that Lucy!

i agree. it's pretty amazing what one runs
across when one takes the time to look

I don't trust no-name memory (Mine's all Crucial),
but as long as there is a forever warranty...

i share that sentiment

Crucial's got a good name, Tyan has it on their
approved 333 list (Micron chips) and the price
is right. i'm going with 2 of their $106 1GB
sticks (3GB total on the machine)

btw, how long did it take you to track down
which dimm was bad? and was it one of your
512 dimms or the 256s? how did it go with
getting Crucial to replace it? (or them if
it was one of the 256s)

I've been running 10.0 for a while. DualHead support went away for
my Matrox G550. I found a hack, but it killed the whole thing.
USB flash stick support is much better (but doesn't make up for the
loss of DualHead). I haven't had all that much time to play and
what I have I've spent trying to get my K6-III system back on the
air (need it for Windows). :-(

i'm not sure i'd want to spend time on reviving
my K6-III machine

i'm making my Tyan 2875 my PVR machine (quad boot),
and i'll tailor it as such

the new S.M. dualie is my main machine (tri boot)

when i get my dual core Opteron (in maybe 5 months),
i'll move the Opty 248 (90nm) from the S.M. to the Tyan
(presently have an Opty 142 (130nm) on the Tyan)

i'm gonna try doing most of my internet stuff
via SUSE 10.0 (it's been a while, so my UNIX
is a bit rusty, but no worries. )

bill

 

[George Macdonald]

no. for 1 stick of 1GB DDR 333 registered memory




i agree. it's pretty amazing what one runs
across when one takes the time to look





i share that sentiment

Crucial's got a good name, Tyan has it on their
approved 333 list (Micron chips) and the price
is right. i'm going with 2 of their $106 1GB
sticks (3GB total on the machine)

I assume you meant Corsair above... and are you sure it's the regular
Corsair stuff which is approved by Tyan and not the Corsair "System Select"
modules, which have a price more in line with Crucial's and Kingston's.

Note that Crucial has a higher price on DDR333 ($200.) than for their
DDR400 ($176.). I guess DDR333 demand is so low and it's easier to just
produce one speed grade, DDR400, which would work OK at DDR333.

The Corsair at $106. seems like an unusually good buy but in that case I
think I'd still go for the Corsair DDR400 at $107. and run it at DDR333 -
might even have a bit more leeway on timing. As long as you can get it
exchanged if you have problems, looks like maybe the way to go.

 

[Keith]

no. for 1 stick of 1GB DDR 333 registered memory

*Do* look again! Yikes!

i agree. it's pretty amazing what one runs
across when one takes the time to look

Ok, but it's $59, not $97. I'd take the Crucial in a second! ...even
from Newegg.

i share that sentiment
So...

Crucial's got a good name, Tyan has it on their
approved 333 list (Micron chips) and the price
is right. i'm going with 2 of their $106 1GB
sticks (3GB total on the machine)

It wasn't on Tyan's list when I bought mine. Not to worry, Crucial will
replace it if it doesn't work (ever). That's good enough. In fact I had
to convince them *not* to send me new memory when I described my problems
(which may not be). Great company to deal with!

btw, how long did it take you to track down which dimm was bad? and was
it one of your 512 dimms or the 256s? how did it go with getting
Crucial to replace it? (or them if it was one of the 256s)

Can't. The only time errors are reported is when Linux boots. Why?
WTFK?

i'm not sure i'd want to spend time on reviving my K6-III machine

I do, there is some data on there I'd like. My wife likes WinBlows games
too, but the laptop "came" today (UPS attempted delivery) so it' s little
less important. I'd like to throw it in the basement as a file server
though.

i'm making my Tyan 2875 my PVR machine (quad boot), and i'll tailor it
as such

Too much power (noise) for that. I bought a PVR last year.

the new S.M. dualie is my main machine (tri boot)

when i get my dual core Opteron (in maybe 5 months), i'll move the Opty
248 (90nm) from the S.M. to the Tyan (presently have an Opty 142 (130nm)
on the Tyan)

i'm gonna try doing most of my internet stuff via SUSE 10.0 (it's been a
while, so my UNIX is a bit rusty, but no worries. )

It's great for that. I'm just pissed at the lack of support for my
DualHead. I'm looking for a graphics card for the laptop[*] so I can go
TripleHead. ;-)

[*] Forgive me Father, for I have sinned. First a Dell monitor and now an
CoreDuo laptop. How many Hail-Mary's is that?

 

[George Macdonald]

i'm gonna try doing most of my internet stuff via SUSE 10.0 (it's been a
while, so my UNIX is a bit rusty, but no worries. )

It's great for that. I'm just pissed at the lack of support for my
DualHead. I'm looking for a graphics card for the laptop[*] so I can go
TripleHead. ;-)

[*] Forgive me Father, for I have sinned. First a Dell monitor and now an
CoreDuo laptop. How many Hail-Mary's is that?

Gack - a Dell monitor? I hope it's not one of those Samsung jobs with the
static 3*6-bit+2x2 dithering - see here:
http://geocities.com/icecow88/970p-dithering-en.html. I'm really pissed
about this: the Samsung 173P I have was sold as a true 24-bit 16.7M color
monitor and I paid through the nose for it at the time but the texturing on
shades of gray due to static (i.e. not FRC) 2x2 matrix dithering is
definitely there.

I'm not a umm, Hail-Mary type -- only seen it in the movies -- but when it
comes to laptops, there's more important things than the CPU.;-)

 

[willbill]

I assume you meant Corsair above...

you are right. good catch

and are you sure it's the regular
Corsair stuff which is approved by Tyan

yes, it's the regular stuff. the model number
on newegg identically matches what Tyan shows
on their approved memory list

and not the Corsair "System Select"
modules, which have a price more in line with Crucial's and Kingston's.

Note that Crucial has a higher price on DDR333 ($200.) than for their
DDR400 ($176.). I guess DDR333 demand is so low and it's easier to just
produce one speed grade, DDR400, which would work OK at DDR333.

The Corsair at $106. seems like an unusually good buy but in that case I
think I'd still go for the Corsair DDR400 at $107. and run it at DDR333 -
might even have a bit more leeway on timing. As long as you can get it
exchanged if you have problems, looks like maybe the way to go.

that's an interesting thought, George.
thank you for that.

in fact, it's so interesting that i'm going with it.

i didn't even think to look at the pricing
on the DDR400. my bad

when i went back (this past few minutes),
i noted their DDR numbers: 266 has 40 choices,
333 has 84 choices, and 400 has 250 (!)

bill

p.s.

i've noted that if one wants to run huge
amounts of memory (i don't), you have to run
at 266 (for some reason that i don't fully
understand)

fwiw, my new S.M. dualie mobo is spec'ed at
running up to 32GB (with with both CPU
sockets running). but i don't ever plan
to use the 2nd CPU socket, so i'll never
get there. the only reason i can think
of for running with truly large amounts
of memory is if you're running the machine
as a true server. to me, 3GB on a personal
use machine is a lot of memory

 

[Keith]

i'm gonna try doing most of my internet stuff via SUSE 10.0 (it's been a
while, so my UNIX is a bit rusty, but no worries. )

It's great for that. I'm just pissed at the lack of support for my
DualHead. I'm looking for a graphics card for the laptop[*] so I can go
TripleHead. ;-)

[*] Forgive me Father, for I have sinned. First a Dell monitor and now an
CoreDuo laptop. How many Hail-Mary's is that?

Gack - a Dell monitor? I hope it's not one of those Samsung jobs with the
static 3*6-bit+2x2 dithering - see here:
http://geocities.com/icecow88/970p-dithering-en.html. I'm really pissed
about this: the Samsung 173P I have was sold as a true 24-bit 16.7M color
monitor and I paid through the nose for it at the time but the texturing on
shades of gray due to static (i.e. not FRC) 2x2 matrix dithering is
definitely there.

Interesting. I'll check that test out later. I bought a 2005FPW
(20.1" wide screen). I was about to buy an IBM/Lenovo L21p, to
match this one but a cow-orker strongly suggested the Dell. He also
has an L21p on his desk and preferred his 2005FPW. Thinking about
it a little more, the difference in vertical resolution (1200 vs.
1050) is sometimes annoying so I went with the Dell.

I'm not a umm, Hail-Mary type -- only seen it in the movies -- but when it
comes to laptops, there's more important things than the CPU.;-)

Yepper. (ThinkPad T60)

 

[George Macdonald]

you are right. good catch




yes, it's the regular stuff. the model number
on newegg identically matches what Tyan shows
on their approved memory list




that's an interesting thought, George.
thank you for that.

in fact, it's so interesting that i'm going with it.

i didn't even think to look at the pricing
on the DDR400. my bad

when i went back (this past few minutes),
i noted their DDR numbers: 266 has 40 choices,
333 has 84 choices, and 400 has 250 (!)

bill

p.s.

i've noted that if one wants to run huge
amounts of memory (i don't), you have to run
at 266 (for some reason that i don't fully
understand)

Yep it's just the loading on the bus signals: more chips means more load
which can only be compensated up to a point and eventually you just have to
lower the clock as signals degrade. Note that later AMD64 chips, starting
with rev E IIRC, have an improved memory controller which is better in this
respect. It's also true that some people have reported exceeding AMD's
recommendations and have managed to run at DDR400 with all ranks full. You
can check AMD's specs in Chapter 4 of the BIOS & Kernel Developer's Guide,
26094.PDF.

fwiw, my new S.M. dualie mobo is spec'ed at
running up to 32GB (with with both CPU
sockets running). but i don't ever plan
to use the 2nd CPU socket, so i'll never
get there. the only reason i can think
of for running with truly large amounts
of memory is if you're running the machine
as a true server. to me, 3GB on a personal
use machine is a lot of memory

I'll be interested to hear how the SuperMicro mbrd works out. Which
chipset is it? They're still oddly umm, shy about revealing their mbrd
"support" of AMD CPUs - I guess they don't want to lose Intel
"benefits".

 

[George Macdonald]

i'm gonna try doing most of my internet stuff via SUSE 10.0 (it's been a
while, so my UNIX is a bit rusty, but no worries. )

It's great for that. I'm just pissed at the lack of support for my
DualHead. I'm looking for a graphics card for the laptop[*] so I can go
TripleHead. ;-)

[*] Forgive me Father, for I have sinned. First a Dell monitor and now an
CoreDuo laptop. How many Hail-Mary's is that?

Gack - a Dell monitor? I hope it's not one of those Samsung jobs with the
static 3*6-bit+2x2 dithering - see here:
http://geocities.com/icecow88/970p-dithering-en.html. I'm really pissed
about this: the Samsung 173P I have was sold as a true 24-bit 16.7M color
monitor and I paid through the nose for it at the time but the texturing on
shades of gray due to static (i.e. not FRC) 2x2 matrix dithering is
definitely there.

Interesting. I'll check that test out later. I bought a 2005FPW
(20.1" wide screen). I was about to buy an IBM/Lenovo L21p, to
match this one but a cow-orker strongly suggested the Dell. He also
has an L21p on his desk and preferred his 2005FPW. Thinking about
it a little more, the difference in vertical resolution (1200 vs.
1050) is sometimes annoying so I went with the Dell.

A quick search turns up it's an LG-Philips panel,
http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2400 which at that size
likely means a S-IPS which is the "hot" panel technology just now so you
should be good.

Yepper. (ThinkPad T60)

I *do* hope Lenovo keeps the quality on case, keyboard, screen etc. From
what I've seen it's still up to the expected standards so far.

 

[willbill]

Can't. The only time errors are reported is when Linux boots. Why?
WTFK?

so what are the possibilities?

1. you think the memory is ok, and the Tyan
bios ECC event log actually has problems?

that i could believe

2. you think the memory is ok, and that Linux
is somehow doing something so weird that it
shows up in the bios event log as an ECC error?

that i find hard to believe

3. something else?

(i can't think of anything else)
--------------------

from what little i've seen you post on it,
i suspect you've got a bad memory module

and that it just happens that Linux is the
one piece of s/w (that you regularly run)
that makes it show up?

did you ever run one of the memory stress
programs that several people suggested to you?

bill

 

[willbill]

I'll be interested to hear how the SuperMicro mbrd works out.

ok. if anything i owe you on a couple of counts
at this point. figure maybe a week for some input
(on chips n/g)

Which chipset is it?

it's the SuperMicro H8DCE mobo, with the nVidia
nForce Pro (2200/2050) chipset, with two PCI
Express x16, two PCI Express x4, and 3 standard PCI
(lots of slots)

the best thing i did was to get a great (but
expensive) case for it (SilverStone SST-TJ03S
(Temjin); silverstonetek.com). from memory,
SS also has a 2nd interesting case to handle
a large mobo (one that is "upside down" in some
way, and half the cost of the one i got; it was
a very tough choice)

They're still oddly umm, shy about revealing their mbrd
"support" of AMD CPUs

tell me about it.

finding it on the S.M. web site (5 weeks ago)
was tricky to say the least. i found it
on a secondary reference after doing quite
a few searchs. i went to the S.M. site coz
i found the mobo on newegg and it looked so
interesting that i wanted more info on it

i then did a global search on my local copy
of this chips n/g (via Agent) and found your
late January thread on it (which i'd captured
but not read); and a google n/g search found
a post by rob stow (on another n/g?) that gave
a couple of useful S.M. site refs

- I guess they don't want to lose Intel
"benefits".

only God knows, coz for sure i don't
----------

i'm looking forward to finally going
dualie, in maybe 6-to-9 months. with
this S.M. mobo i've got my options open,
meaning AMD has got to do something to
respond to Intel's rather good new
CPU moves (which may or may not have
yet showed up on the market)

afaict, AMD's answer is socket AM2 and
moving smaller than their current 90nm
(Intel is at 65nm?)

i plan to keep my eye on how AMD prices move
when AMD introduces these two things. my 1st
choice is a single dual core 940 Opteron, but
i may go with two 940 2xx Opteron singles
(faster than the 248 that i just got)

it will be the 1st time in my long PC experience
that i have upgraded a mobo to a higher speed CPU
(if only as a hand down; meaning to my current Tyan
S2875 with it's current Opty 142). i expect this
upgrade to be a very noticeable improvement to the
S2875 performance (even if i'm not paying attention.

not to say that this has been cheap. ECC never is.
(which is one of the key things you get with Opteron,
not that i'm any great expert on the PC situation
(meaning real/current PC server experience))

bill

 

[Keith]

so what are the possibilities?

1. you think the memory is ok, and the Tyan
bios ECC event log actually has problems?

Nope. I can boot into BIOS or DOS (and at one time Win), no errors
reported. Boot Linus and there is exactly one ECC correction entry in the
BIOS message area.

that i could believe

2. you think the memory is ok, and that Linux
is somehow doing something so weird that it shows up in the bios
event log as an ECC error?

Yep. See above.

that i find hard to believe

Oh, well.

3. something else?

(i can't think of anything else)

Every stinkin' one of them? Exactly the same signature? Actually, I get
no error logged if I don't use dual channel. Any combination of DIMMs
with dual channel enabled causes *exactly* the same symptoms. Tyan was no
help. Crucial offered to RMA all the memory, but I couldn't justify that
without some better information.

and that it just happens that Linux is the one piece of s/w (that you
regularly run) that makes it show up?

Only *once* on boot.

did you ever run one of the memory stress programs that several people
suggested to you?

Yep. No faults in *days* of churning. Boot Linux; *bang*, one
ECC corrected error.

 

[willbill]

Only *once* on boot.




Yep. No faults in *days* of churning. Boot Linux; *bang*, one
ECC corrected error.

i'm truly sorry, but i have no clue
to this

if i run across anything that might
give half a clue, i'll post it.
(don't hold yer breath; if anything,
you'll run across a solution before i do)

i'm not happy about saying this
for a fellow Tyan S2875 owner/user!

if SUSE 10.0 works ok for me without
problems, i'll post it in the next
6 weeks (for whatever that might
be worth to you)

bill

 

[willbill]

Nope. I can boot into BIOS or DOS (and at one time Win), no errors
reported. Boot Linus and there is exactly one ECC correction entry in the
BIOS message area.




<shrug> It took a long while to make me a believer too. (or grow weary
of trying more combinations)




Yep. See above.





Oh, well.




Every stinkin' one of them? Exactly the same signature? Actually, I get
no error logged if I don't use dual channel. Any combination of DIMMs
with dual channel enabled causes *exactly* the same symptoms. Tyan was no
help. Crucial offered to RMA all the memory, but I couldn't justify that
without some better information.




Only *once* on boot.




Yep. No faults in *days* of churning. Boot Linux; *bang*, one
ECC corrected error.

after sleeping on it, it's probably an error with
the Tyan bios s/w version that you are running

i assume you're running the latest 3.02 mobo
bios version?

i mean, at least that one has been stable for
quite a few months. reading through Tyan's
history of problems fixed from earlier versions
makes it pretty clear that some pretty weird
stuff happens when the bios s/w has a problem
(or problems)

a beta has been shown for the last several months

it wouldn't surprise me at all if your input to them
is now part of that new beta. and i'm sure that
they'd never admit it to you either verbally nor
especially in writing.

another possibility is that they are giving input
to the key people who do Linux s/w to fix something?
meaning that i don't know how stuff like this gets
resolved but i suspect that you do

bill

 

[Keith]

I *do* hope Lenovo keeps the quality on case, keyboard, screen etc. From
what I've seen it's still up to the expected standards so far.

I think Lenovo ownership of the ThinkPad line will a good thing.
Being IBM (the 'B' part) held ThinkPads back. ThinkPads were late to the
wide-screen game, for example ("business people don't need it"). I
wouldn't be surprised to see a 17" wide screen soon. The T60 (bought it
sight unseen) is quite like my work T42p (1" thick, black titanium cover,
light, etc.).

 

[willbill]

Keith wrote:

another thought...

given that we both have a Tyan 2875
from the same production run (since
we both have that same broken
fan speed readout problem),
i should get the same ECC error
when i get around to loading
SUSE 10.0

if i don't, then it's something
that is different in the way
we have the machines set up.
say a h/w card you have in one
of the slots, different bios
settings, etc. etc.

i'll let you know if i do or don't
get ECC errors (within maybe the next
10 days? i want to wait until i get
a new DX9 video board for the machine
before i do SUSE to it (the order
is placed, but via snail mail))

bill

 

[willbill]

Keith wrote:

i want to wait until i get
a new DX9 video board for the machine
before i do SUSE to it

a question:

what web site(s) do you go to for SUSE
support, software drivers, etc.?

e.g. the DX9 i'm getting is an Asus N6600GT (AGP)
for the simple reason that nVidia still provides
Win98 drivers for it. Asus doesn't, but nVidia does.
since it's fairly new, do you have any clue where i'd
be able to find drivers for it (i'm assuming i'll need
video drivers of some sort for this board) for SUSE 10.0

T.I.A., bill