Reformat Hard Drive?

[jkl]

Hard drive has become unstable; programs freeze up repeatedly; programs
sometimes don't open; repeatedly get the unbootable boot volume (despite
taking steps to fix that) when starting computer. Am thinking I will back up
data and program files, erase hard drive, and reinstall programs. Worried
that erasing hard drive will elimante files installed at factory that I can't
reinstall because I don't have them. I have Windows XP Professional disks,
so that shouldn't be a problem, but how do I do the above without ending up
making my computer useless?

TIA

 

[Patrick Keenan]

Hard drive has become unstable; programs freeze up repeatedly; programs
sometimes don't open; repeatedly get the unbootable boot volume (despite
taking steps to fix that) when starting computer. Am thinking I will back
up
data and program files, erase hard drive, and reinstall programs. Worried
that erasing hard drive will elimante files installed at factory that I
can't
reinstall because I don't have them. I have Windows XP Professional
disks,
so that shouldn't be a problem, but how do I do the above without ending
up
making my computer useless?

TIA

Hopefully, you're referring to the motherboard and chipset drivers, and you
are right to realize that they are needed for a clean install. They are
installed immediately after the basic Windows install is done, and will
enable things like the ethernet adapter and audio.

Fortunately, it shouldn't be that difficult to get them. If the system is
made by a large, still-existing company, such as Dell or HP, you can just go
to the support site and download them. If it's a Dell, on the back or
bottom of the system there is a service tag that identifies the system
configuration; enter it at the Dell site and you'll have all the drivers and
parts shown to you.

At worst, open the system case (unless it's a laptop) and find the
motherboard make and model number. This information is silkscreened on the
board and is usually easy to locate.

You can also do this with free system audit tools like Belarc Advisor.
http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html

the report from Belarc can come in very handy if you need to find drivers
and have to identify hardware.

Once you have the information, which might be something like "ASUS P5B" or
"GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H" you can just go to the board-maker's site and find
the drivers. Download them, burn them to CD, and store it with your XP
install CD.

There's very little point in backing up program files. In almost every
case, you have to reinstall programs. Copying the folders over won't work.
The greatest value the backup has is reminding you what you need to
reinstall.

One other thing. If you even suspect that the problems are related to the
drive itself (they do wear out and fail), just get another drive, treat the
old one as a backup. Remove the old drive and set it aside. Install the
new one, do the XP install, install the motherboard drivers and then do the
Windows updates, install your A/V software, and your apps. After the XP
install is done and after the A/V is up and running, shut down and reconnect
the old drive. Copy your data files to the appropriate locations.

HTH
-pk

 

[Ron Badour]

There's very little point in backing up program files. In almost every
case, you have to reinstall programs. Copying the folders over won't
work. The greatest value the backup has is reminding you what you need to
reinstall.

A good reply; however, there may be value in backing up program files. For
example, MS Money has a file that holds all the data input into the program
and if this file is not saved, all data would have to be re-input once MS
Money is reinstalled.

 

[Daave]

A good reply; however, there may be value in backing up program
files. For example, MS Money has a file that holds all the data
input into the program and if this file is not saved, all data would
have to be re-input once MS Money is reinstalled.

Additionally, many people download program *installation* files. They
should certainly be backed up!

 

[David Webb]

Here's another approach:

Backup your existing drivers to an external USB drive, using the freeware
utility Drivermax http://www.innovative-sol.com/drivermax/index.htm

Backup your files and settings using WinXP's native FAST utility. Save this data
to the same USB drive. See this article for a complete tutorial. Be sure to use
the same and latest version of the wizard on both systems.
http://winsupportcenter.com/win5/a/fast.htm

Backup any other data you consider critical or unique to the same USB drive.

Wipe your HDD clean. The WinXP installation disc will do this for you.

Install Windows XP

Install Drivermax

Restore all of your drivers

Install your applications. If you happen to install an older driver, use
Drivermax to re-install your saved version.

Run the FAST utility to restore all files and settings that you chose to save.
Note: Passwords are not saved, by design. You will need to re-enter them.

 

[DL]

The MS Money file is a data file, not a program file, and assuming the MS
Money backup option is used a second data backup copy is created & located
where selected

 

[DL]

Before you do that you might want to run the hd manufacturers test utility,
and also a memory test, www.memtest.org
After all theres no point in reinstalling everything, if you have failing
hardware, which is what it sounds like

 

[jkl]

First, thanks each of the posters here.

Second, the more I read about doing this, the more I think I'm in over my
head.

My concern is that reformatting the hard drive and doing a clean install of
Windows XP is going to eliminate everything on my C drive, including IBM
preinstall, etc..

And I don't believe I can back up the stuff on my C drive, right? (I have
already backed up my D drive, which is where my data is stored).

It's a laptop, not a desktop, and to make matters worse, the screen doesn't
work. So I'm connected to an external monitor. But if I reformat the C
drive, I'll lose the program and settings that enablesallows my laptop to
work with the external monitor, yes? And if that happens, when I try to boot
from the Windows XP disk, I won't be able to see anything on the laptop
screen, so I won't be able to do anything anyway, right?

So, can I simply reformat the D drive? (Assuming for the moment that the
hard drive itself isn't corrupted). And if so, will that really resolve my
problems since those are just data files?

Sorry folks, definitely out of my element here but trying to understand.

Thanks again.

P.S. Using PC Doctor right now to test the hard drive . . . I'm working from
a second machine.

 

[Daave]

What precisely do you mean by "Windows XP Professional disks?"

First, thanks each of the posters here.

Second, the more I read about doing this, the more I think I'm in
over my head.

There is no shame whatsoever in admitting that. If you find the task too
daunting, search for a reputable, local (non-chain) PC repair shop or
tech.

My concern is that reformatting the hard drive and doing a clean
install of Windows XP is going to eliminate everything on my C drive,
including IBM preinstall, etc..

If done the right way, a repair install leaves all your data intact (but
it is still wise to back everything up beforehand, to be safe). A clean
install does wipe the slate clean. That is why it is crucial you back up
all your data and settings. Also you need all the installation
media/files for your programs and all the necessary drivers.

And I don't believe I can back up the stuff on my C drive, right? (I
have already backed up my D drive, which is where my data is stored).

You can back up anything you choose to.

It's a laptop, not a desktop, and to make matters worse, the screen
doesn't work. So I'm connected to an external monitor. But if I
reformat the C drive, I'll lose the program and settings that
enables allows my laptop to work with the external monitor, yes?

Yes. You will lose *everything*. This is why in many cases, it's wiser
to simply fix the problem rather than perform a clean install.

And if that happens, when I try
to boot from the Windows XP disk, I won't be able to see anything on
the laptop screen, so I won't be able to do anything anyway, right?

Correct. It's like tuning on a radio where there is no radio reception.

So, can I simply reformat the D drive? (Assuming for the moment that
the hard drive itself isn't corrupted). And if so, will that really
resolve my problems since those are just data files?

I think you are confusing terminology. When someone uses the phrase
"format the hard drive," they are referring to formatting the entire
physical hard drive. Assuming C: is the partition containing your
operating system and D: is the partition containing your data files (but
keep in mind certain data/settings make their way to C: anyway),
deleting everything on D: won't do you any good whatsoever. To make
matters easier, just use the word "format" when referring to a clean
install. Formatting you disk wipes it clean completely so that you may
reinstall your operating system from scratch. Then you would install the
drivers and updates, reinstall your programs, reload your settings, and
copy your data back.

I guess the make of your laptop is IBM. What is the model/number of it?
What disks do you have? Does it come with a hidden restore partition?

In order to receive better quality help, it's important to provide as
many pertient details as possible. As it is now, it's hard to tell
whether it's a hardware problem or malware. Mention any error messages.
Describe all the symptoms as completely as possible.

(or just take it to a shop )

 

[jkl]

Used Access IBM to diagnose hard drive and motherboard. The latter passed
with flying colors. Alas, the hard drive failed 3/6 tests. Failed the status
test, the funnel seek test and the surface scan test. Funnel seek test had
error reading sector number 32426959; Surface scan had same error for five
locations (out of 150186960). Not sure what that means re the hard drive.
Looks like 6 out of 150186960 sectors or 6 locations at location 150186960
were bad. Not sure whether that makes a clean install more or less of an
option . . .

Thanks

 

[Daave]

Used Access IBM to diagnose hard drive and motherboard. The latter
passed with flying colors. Alas, the hard drive failed 3/6 tests.
Failed the status test, the funnel seek test and the surface scan
test. Funnel seek test had error reading sector number 32426959;
Surface scan had same error for five locations (out of 150186960).
Not sure what that means re the hard drive. Looks like 6 out of
150186960 sectors or 6 locations at location 150186960 were bad. Not
sure whether that makes a clean install more or less of an option . .

You will need to replace the drive. I am not sure how salvageable the
data on your bad hard drive is. Assuming you never backed it up, I'm
sorry to say it may be lost forever. (Unfortunately, disaster is the
best teacher when it comes to learning the lesson of implementing a
regular backup system.)

There are services that may be able to retrieve some or most of your
data, but it could set you back thousands of dollars. You may want to
try removing the drive and placing it a USB enclosure. You might be
lucky. For guidance, post to:

microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware

If you decide to keep the laptop and install a new drive, you will
definitely need to perform a clean install! Have a look at:

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html

 

[jkl]

I backed up the D drive on a regular basis and was able to copy all the files
off my D drive as well (last night and this morning). So I have backups and
data files on an external Maxtor drive.

What I don't know is whether the backup did the C drive as well . . .

I also know that the IBM Predesktop area is on the current hardrive and that
would allow a recovery to factory contents . . . but if the hard drive is
failing, no sense doing that unless I could do so somehow to the new hard
drive. Which is again beyond my knowledge . . .

May just have to yield and take it to a repair place to have it all done . . .

Thanks for the very helpful posts.

 

[Patrick Keenan]

First, thanks each of the posters here.

Second, the more I read about doing this, the more I think I'm in over my
head.

My concern is that reformatting the hard drive and doing a clean install
of
Windows XP is going to eliminate everything on my C drive, including IBM
preinstall, etc..

A clean install often, if not usually, starts with formatting the system
partition and yes, that will remove everything on that partition.

If by IBM Preinstall, you mean the system restore partition, that's a
separate partition, and you should not format that one. If you are using a
System Restore utility located on a partition, those already know which
partition to remove and which not to.

And I don't believe I can back up the stuff on my C drive, right? (I have
already backed up my D drive, which is where my data is stored).

Sure you can. The question is whether there's much point to backing up all
of it.

Note that some data will by default be on the C drive and you need to be
sure that it IS backed up. For example, the Windows Address Book and
Outlook Express files will be on the C drive, and in folders that are
helfully marked as hidden.

It's a laptop, not a desktop, and to make matters worse, the screen
doesn't
work. So I'm connected to an external monitor. But if I reformat the C
drive, I'll lose the program and settings that enablesallows my laptop to
work with the external monitor, yes?

No. The system has a hardware function and keys to switch displays.
Special drivers are not needed for basic functionality.

Yes, there are video drivers (and others!) you need to download and
install - you need to have them on hand - to make the system work properly
after the basic XP install. You probably won't be able to download them
with that system because you won't have the network drivers after the XP
install, either.

And if that happens, when I try to boot
from the Windows XP disk, I won't be able to see anything on the laptop
screen, so I won't be able to do anything anyway, right?

No, not right. See above about the keys. On my thinkpad it's FN+F7 or
F9.

But you can easily test this with the XP install CD. Put it in and boot
from it. Only press the FN+F keys for the screen controls. Press ESCAPE
or shut the power off if it looks out of hand or not responsive.

So, can I simply reformat the D drive? (Assuming for the moment that the
hard drive itself isn't corrupted). And if so, will that really resolve
my
problems since those are just data files?

That won't help anything if Windows is installed to the C drive and if the
problem is with Windows.

Sorry folks, definitely out of my element here but trying to understand.

No problem with you asking questions. How else will you find out?

HTH
-pk

 

[Patrick Keenan]

I backed up the D drive on a regular basis and was able to copy all the
files
off my D drive as well (last night and this morning). So I have backups
and
data files on an external Maxtor drive.

What I don't know is whether the backup did the C drive as well . . .

I also know that the IBM Predesktop area is on the current hardrive and
that
would allow a recovery to factory contents . . . but if the hard drive is
failing, no sense doing that unless I could do so somehow to the new hard
drive. Which is again beyond my knowledge . . .

May just have to yield and take it to a repair place to have it all done .
. .

Thanks for the very helpful posts.

If there is only one physical disk, the C and D drive are just partitions
on that one disk.

It's actually really easy to get past where you are now, and it's easiest if
you have to replace the drive anyway AND have XP install CD.

As I understand it, you have a Thinkpad of some sort. You need a small
Phillips screwdriver. Directions will be very similar for any other
laptop.

First, unplug the power adapter and remove the battery. Turn it over and
locate the drive access - there is one small Phillips screw holding this on.
Remove the screw and open the door, then remove the drive, which will just
slide out. Now, look at the drive connector to see if it's an IDE or SATA
drive. Also look at the disk label; you may have to remove the four small
Phillips screws to remove the drive from the carrier tray to see it. Of
interest is the disk size.

Beyond the connector type (IDE or SATA) and the size, when you go to buy a
new one, you're only interested in getting the best one you can afford of a
size you need. Get at least 5400 RPM.

When you get the new drive, put it in the carrier tray with the four
phillips screws the same way the old one came out, slide it in place, and
put the door back on and reinstall the one screw holding the door on.

Put the old hard disk into the antistatic bag the new drive came in.

And that's it for the process of changing the drive. It's not rocket
science any more.

Now, put the battery back in, reconnect the power adapter, and turn the
system on. Press teh FN+ F7 or F9 or whatever if needed to move the
display to your external monitor. Say yes to the prompts from the BIOS
about new hardware. Finally, open the CD drawer and put in your XP Pro CD,
and reboot. Setup will start.

There is one caveat with some Thinkpads that use SATA drives. These *may*
require a special driver to run in AHCI mode, but that driver is sometimes
not properly recognised during Setup. The result is that the SATA drive is
not seen by the XP install. If that happens, go into the system BIOS and
change away from the AHCI setting for the hard disk. Save the changes and
restart. Performance won't be as high but it will work. You can install
the driver and change the setting after the XP install.

You must have the drivers specific to your system. Most, if not all,
manufacturers have these online now if you don't have a driver CD. On the
bottom of a thinkpad there's a model and type number (on a Dell it's called
the Service Tag number). Use that at the site to get the drivers you need
for XP Pro. Download them on another system, burn them to CD, and as soon
as the base XP install is done, put that CD into the drive and start
installing. I suggest starting with any core chipset drivers, the network
drivers, then video. After that the sequence is less important.

HTH
-pk

 

[Patrick Keenan]

I backed up the D drive on a regular basis and was able to copy all the
files
off my D drive as well (last night and this morning). So I have backups
and
data files on an external Maxtor drive.

What I don't know is whether the backup did the C drive as well . . .

I also know that the IBM Predesktop area is on the current hardrive and
that
would allow a recovery to factory contents . . . but if the hard drive is
failing, no sense doing that unless I could do so somehow to the new hard
drive. Which is again beyond my knowledge . . .

May just have to yield and take it to a repair place to have it all done .
. .

Thanks for the very helpful posts.

Two other things regarding installing a new drive.

First, the old drive can be set aside as its own backup. There is no point
in thrashing it trying to get it to boot so you can back it up if it's
failing - you want to use it as little as possible. Install to a new
drive then attach the old one via external USB2 case, and copy the contents.

Second, regarding the System Recovery section. IBM usually made these
available on CD, recognising that drives do fail and when that happens the
recovery partition is inaccessible or useless. I recently paid about $40 -
$50 including shipping for a Vista Business restore CD for *this* thinkpad,
and delivery was extremely fast.

If the system is old or out of warranty, availability may not be as high.
I suggest it's worth the call to find out.

HTH
-pk