Refill inks permanence test

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whatcartridge.com

If you are in any way interested in printing quality photos on your
inkjet, you should know about Wilhelm Imaging Research.

Henry Wilhelm is the acknowledged world leader in ink permanence
research. He tests inks and papers to see how long they last before
fading, in all sorts of conditions.

Recently he tested third party inks from several common suppliers -
including Island Inkjet, Carrot Ink, Staples, Office Depot, Office Max,
Caboodle Cartridge and Cartridge World. These were either third party
or refilled cartridges.

Typical was the results for BCI-6 cartridges:
Genuine Canon BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 16 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Kodak Ultra
Premium Photo Paper" - 1.1 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper
Pro PR-101" - 1.6 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Island Ink-Jet
Professional Quality Photo Paper" - 1.8 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.2 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Staples Photo Supreme
Paper" - 2.4 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Cartridge
World Photo Lab Quality Glossy Photo Paper" -
0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.3 years
From the report:
Click to expand...
"...not everyone agrees with all the results that come out of the lab
in Grinnell. We expect some aftermarket ink manufacturers will dispute
its most recent findings. Although Wilhelm acknowledges that there is
some debate about WIR's methodology, he insists it is sound. "There
are no ISO or ANSI standards for permanence, so our company's
standard has become the de facto industry standard.""

Also pertinent is:
"Wilhelm contends that the market will ultimately decide the merits of
the aftermarket
value proposition. "The market will work these things out," he says
confidently. While
he is well aware that a segment of the population is willing to
sacrifice on quality in order
to save on price, Wilhelm is concerned that many consumers are simply
unaware of how
much they are giving up when they purchase the aftermarket products
currently available."

While there are some aftermarket inks out there that have vastly
superior permanence to the inks tested by Wilhelm Research, it's the
volume sellers that people will judge aftermarket inks as a whole on.

The full Wilhelm report can be found here:
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/hardcopy/WIR_AftermarketTests2006_05.pdf

James Sodor
www.whatcartridge.com
 
whatcartridge.com said:
If you are in any way interested in printing quality photos on your
inkjet, you should know about Wilhelm Imaging Research.

Henry Wilhelm is the acknowledged world leader in ink permanence
research. He tests inks and papers to see how long they last before
fading, in all sorts of conditions.

Recently he tested third party inks from several common suppliers -
including Island Inkjet, Carrot Ink, Staples, Office Depot, Office Max,
Caboodle Cartridge and Cartridge World. These were either third party
or refilled cartridges.

Typical was the results for BCI-6 cartridges:
Genuine Canon BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 16 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Kodak Ultra
Premium Photo Paper" - 1.1 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper
Pro PR-101" - 1.6 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Island Ink-Jet
Professional Quality Photo Paper" - 1.8 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.2 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Staples Photo Supreme
Paper" - 2.4 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Cartridge
World Photo Lab Quality Glossy Photo Paper" -
0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.3 years

"...not everyone agrees with all the results that come out of the lab
in Grinnell. We expect some aftermarket ink manufacturers will dispute
its most recent findings. Although Wilhelm acknowledges that there is
some debate about WIR's methodology, he insists it is sound. "There
are no ISO or ANSI standards for permanence, so our company's
standard has become the de facto industry standard.""

Also pertinent is:
"Wilhelm contends that the market will ultimately decide the merits of
the aftermarket
value proposition. "The market will work these things out," he says
confidently. While
he is well aware that a segment of the population is willing to
sacrifice on quality in order
to save on price, Wilhelm is concerned that many consumers are simply
unaware of how
much they are giving up when they purchase the aftermarket products
currently available."

While there are some aftermarket inks out there that have vastly
superior permanence to the inks tested by Wilhelm Research, it's the
volume sellers that people will judge aftermarket inks as a whole on.

The full Wilhelm report can be found here:
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/hardcopy/WIR_AftermarketTests2006_05.pdf

James Sodor
www.whatcartridge.com
Click to expand...


I have high quality projects printed with aftermarket inks put away from
over 10 years ago. I don't see any fading, or signs of fading. I assume
they'll easily match or exceed Canon's limited 16 year life span. Then
again, anything printed lasts only as long as you protect it, so I
assume you're talking of an unprotected photograph/graphic. When I got
my first Canon, I printed a photo with OEM inks on PhotoPaper Pro paper
(they give you with the printer) and left it on a cabinet in the
kitchen. Within a month it had turned an ugly greenish-yellow, losing
over 50% of its color. However, I have every confidence that my
treasured projects, put away for safekeeping, will be around many years
from now - maybe even outlive me. By then, who cares.

-Taliesyn
 
just what i have been saying all along. in addition to the mess,
clogging and ruining printers the generic inks now fade and ruin the photos.

so says
pcworld
pcmag
and now the respected wilhelm


this borders on sacreligious. it must be the divinci code for generic inks

whatcartridge.com said:
If you are in any way interested in printing quality photos on your
inkjet, you should know about Wilhelm Imaging Research.

Henry Wilhelm is the acknowledged world leader in ink permanence
research. He tests inks and papers to see how long they last before
fading, in all sorts of conditions.

Recently he tested third party inks from several common suppliers -
including Island Inkjet, Carrot Ink, Staples, Office Depot, Office Max,
Caboodle Cartridge and Cartridge World. These were either third party
or refilled cartridges.

Typical was the results for BCI-6 cartridges:
Genuine Canon BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 16 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Kodak Ultra
Premium Photo Paper" - 1.1 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper
Pro PR-101" - 1.6 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Island Ink-Jet
Professional Quality Photo Paper" - 1.8 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.2 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Staples Photo Supreme
Paper" - 2.4 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Cartridge
World Photo Lab Quality Glossy Photo Paper" -
0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.3 years

"...not everyone agrees with all the results that come out of the lab
in Grinnell. We expect some aftermarket ink manufacturers will dispute
its most recent findings. Although Wilhelm acknowledges that there is
some debate about WIR's methodology, he insists it is sound. "There
are no ISO or ANSI standards for permanence, so our company's
standard has become the de facto industry standard.""

Also pertinent is:
"Wilhelm contends that the market will ultimately decide the merits of
the aftermarket
value proposition. "The market will work these things out," he says
confidently. While
he is well aware that a segment of the population is willing to
sacrifice on quality in order
to save on price, Wilhelm is concerned that many consumers are simply
unaware of how
much they are giving up when they purchase the aftermarket products
currently available."

While there are some aftermarket inks out there that have vastly
superior permanence to the inks tested by Wilhelm Research, it's the
volume sellers that people will judge aftermarket inks as a whole on.
Click to expand...
and none of them disclose what they are selling so yo never know what
you are getting
 
Taliesyn said:
I have high quality projects printed with aftermarket inks put away from
over 10 years ago.
Click to expand...

wilhelm is a respected independent. you are a high school student that
is about 16years old. so you are talking about your prints where you
were refilling printers when you were 6 years old. that was before they
had inkjets.
I don't see any fading, or signs of fading. I assume
they'll easily match or exceed Canon's limited 16 year life span. Then
again, anything printed lasts only as long as you protect it, so I
assume you're talking of an unprotected photograph/graphic. When I got
my first Canon, I printed a photo with OEM inks on PhotoPaper Pro paper
(they give you with the printer) and left it on a cabinet in the
kitchen. Within a month it had turned an ugly greenish-yellow, losing
over 50% of its color.
Click to expand...

i did the same thing and no problem. it must be all that global warming
where you live
However, I have every confidence that my
treasured projects, put away for safekeeping, will be around many years
from now - maybe even outlive me.
Click to expand...

oh yeah that might be true if you keep stabbing yourself with those
needles.
By then, who cares.
Click to expand...

i agree with that
 
whatcartridge.com said:
If you are in any way interested in printing quality photos on your
inkjet, you should know about Wilhelm Imaging Research.

Henry Wilhelm is the acknowledged world leader in ink permanence
research. He tests inks and papers to see how long they last before
fading, in all sorts of conditions.

Recently he tested third party inks from several common suppliers -
including Island Inkjet, Carrot Ink, Staples, Office Depot, Office Max,
Caboodle Cartridge and Cartridge World. These were either third party
or refilled cartridges.

Typical was the results for BCI-6 cartridges:
Genuine Canon BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 16 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Kodak Ultra
Premium Photo Paper" - 1.1 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper
Pro PR-101" - 1.6 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Island Ink-Jet
Professional Quality Photo Paper" - 1.8 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.2 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Staples Photo Supreme
Paper" - 2.4 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Cartridge
World Photo Lab Quality Glossy Photo Paper" -
0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.3 years

"...not everyone agrees with all the results that come out of the lab
in Grinnell. We expect some aftermarket ink manufacturers will dispute
its most recent findings. Although Wilhelm acknowledges that there is
some debate about WIR's methodology, he insists it is sound. "There
are no ISO or ANSI standards for permanence, so our company's
standard has become the de facto industry standard.""

Also pertinent is:
"Wilhelm contends that the market will ultimately decide the merits of
the aftermarket
value proposition. "The market will work these things out," he says
confidently. While
he is well aware that a segment of the population is willing to
sacrifice on quality in order
to save on price, Wilhelm is concerned that many consumers are simply
unaware of how
much they are giving up when they purchase the aftermarket products
currently available."

While there are some aftermarket inks out there that have vastly
superior permanence to the inks tested by Wilhelm Research, it's the
volume sellers that people will judge aftermarket inks as a whole on.

The full Wilhelm report can be found here:
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/hardcopy/WIR_AftermarketTests2006_05.pdf

James Sodor
www.whatcartridge.com
Click to expand...

Check out the Nifty-Stuff Forum project on ink permanance. Admittedly not
as well controlled as Willhelm's, but still some good info on some of the
inks that refillers are using. While Canon OEM ink did have more fade
resistance to the UV source that was used in the evaluation, the
differential in fade resistance between the OEM and aftermarket refill inks
tested wasn't as extreme as was mentioned in this post. BTW, my well
protected prints with Canon MIS refilled carts on Kirkland Glossy photo
paper look beautiful after two years. They are framed behind glass and are
not in direct sunlight. Prints in albums have fared as well.
 
Burt said:
Check out the Nifty-Stuff Forum project on ink permanance. Admittedly not
as well controlled as Willhelm's, but still some good info on some of the
inks that refillers are using. While Canon OEM ink did have more fade
resistance to the UV source that was used in the evaluation, the
differential in fade resistance between the OEM and aftermarket refill inks
tested wasn't as extreme as was mentioned in this post. BTW, my well
protected prints with Canon MIS refilled carts on Kirkland Glossy photo
paper look beautiful after two years. They are framed behind glass and are
not in direct sunlight. Prints in albums have fared as well.
Click to expand...

As I said, there are probably a lot of aftermarket inks that will do
better than those in the test.

In the article Wilhelm says he was prompted to carry out the test
because of claims by some suppliers that their inks were "just as good
as OEM ink". In the areas of colour etc they are quite close to
original, but Wilhelm argues that permanence is important and that's
where they fail. Fair enough.

If someone gets their inks refilled at Caboodle or Cartridge World and
expect the ink to be the same as OEM, they are mistaken. Maybe even
false advertising by the companies mentioned?
 
There are no aftermarket ink that can outperform the OEM as far as
image longevity. If you are looking for the best quality at any price
there is only 1 choice the OEM.

Where aftermarket inks outperform the OEM is in price. Quality pre
filled cartridges can cost as much as 70% less than the OEM, and 90%
less for bulk ink.

I use a CISS on my Epson R300. when I first bought it I sold the OEM
cartridges, and purchased 3.5 liters of ink, 500 mg for each colour and
1 liter for the black. I recently purchased my second batch of ink.

The OEM black cartridge cost about $20.00 and contains about 15 ml of
usable ink. the bulk black ink I purchased cost about $50.00 and
contains 1000 ml. that's a savings of more than $1250.00 on the black
cartridge alone. I took the extra money and bought a R800, sold the OEM
cartridges and bought a CISS and some bulk pigment ink.
 
whatcartridge.com said:
Burt wrote:
Click to expand...
this is a cult of generic relabelers and refillers slapping each other
on the back. who are you going to believe people who have a monetary
interest or an organization that sets the standard for this kind of
testing along with 2 reputable magazines like pc world and pc mag and do
not forget consumer reports.

snip too long
As I said, there are probably a lot of aftermarket inks that will do
better than those in the test.

In the article Wilhelm says he was prompted to carry out the test
because of claims by some suppliers that their inks were "just as good
as OEM ink".
Click to expand...
we all know those are false claims. these relabelers will not even
disclose who the mfg/formulator is.
In the areas of colour etc they are quite close to
original, but Wilhelm argues that permanence is important and that's
where they fail. Fair enough.
Click to expand...
and wilhelm did not address the issue of clogging
If someone gets their inks refilled at Caboodle or Cartridge World and
expect the ink to be the same as OEM, they are mistaken. Maybe even
false advertising by the companies mentioned?
Click to expand...

now why can't the cult admit the truths that you just said.
 
Hendo said:
There are no aftermarket ink that can outperform the OEM as far as
image longevity. If you are looking for the best quality at any price
there is only 1 choice the OEM.
Click to expand...
snip

that is very true. of course the generics are cheaper. beef chuck is
cheaper than fillet mignon. a yugo is cheaper than a lexus.

they are not in the same class and should not be compared..
 
Measekite, you need a life...BAD. I viewed your profile...5476 messages

in 1 year...OH MY GOD. Talk about TYPE-ARRHEA. More than 15 messages a
day...everyday...Just on Google!!! WOW!!!! DUDE YOU NEED A
LIFE...BBBBBBAAAAADDDDDD.
 
Hendo said:
There are no aftermarket ink that can outperform the OEM as far as
image longevity. If you are looking for the best quality at any price
there is only 1 choice the OEM.

Where aftermarket inks outperform the OEM is in price. Quality pre
filled cartridges can cost as much as 70% less than the OEM, and 90%
less for bulk ink.

I use a CISS on my Epson R300. when I first bought it I sold the OEM
cartridges, and purchased 3.5 liters of ink, 500 mg for each colour and
1 liter for the black. I recently purchased my second batch of ink.

The OEM black cartridge cost about $20.00 and contains about 15 ml of
usable ink. the bulk black ink I purchased cost about $50.00 and
contains 1000 ml. that's a savings of more than $1250.00 on the black
cartridge alone. I took the extra money and bought a R800, sold the OEM
cartridges and bought a CISS and some bulk pigment ink.
Click to expand...
Actually you can use the Krylon photo fixative aerosol spray Matt or
glossy) and the prints will last just as long as the oem inked ones do.
Frank
 
Frank said:
Actually you can use the Krylon photo fixative aerosol spray Matt or
glossy) and the prints will last just as long as the oem inked ones do.
Frank
Click to expand...
I use the krylon uv-resistant clear acrylic on the cds/dvds and the
krylon preserve on the photos and i get a water -resistant,fade,and
smudge resistant finish.
 
John said:
I use the krylon uv-resistant clear acrylic on the cds/dvds and the
krylon preserve on the photos and i get a water -resistant,fade,and
smudge resistant finish.
Click to expand...


i have test this. the problem is it changes the finnish of the photo to
something that resembles that linen finnish that the cheapo photo labs
used to give as an option. it make your photos very drug store looking
but if you use generic ink that you might as well use it.
 
John said:
I use the krylon uv-resistant clear acrylic on the cds/dvds and the
krylon preserve on the photos and i get a water -resistant,fade,and
smudge resistant finish.
Click to expand...


Krylon® Paper Finishes Preserve It® Digital Photo & Paper Protectant is
acid-free and will not change the color of your digital photos.
Frank
 
Burt said:
Check out the Nifty-Stuff Forum project on ink permanance. Admittedly not
as well controlled as Willhelm's, but still some good info on some of the
inks that refillers are using. While Canon OEM ink did have more fade
resistance to the UV source that was used in the evaluation, the
differential in fade resistance between the OEM and aftermarket refill inks
tested wasn't as extreme as was mentioned in this post. BTW, my well
protected prints with Canon MIS refilled carts on Kirkland Glossy photo
paper look beautiful after two years. They are framed behind glass and are
not in direct sunlight. Prints in albums have fared as well.
Click to expand...

The very first photo I ever printed on photo paper was an 8 x 10
enlargement of one of my brother, printed on January 5, 2004 for his
funeral/calling hours the next day. I used an Epson Stylus Color 800
with cheapie generic "compatible" cartridges. I don't remember where I
got them, but it was on the Internet and they were the cheapest carts I
could find at the time. The paper was from a pack of Staples Photo paper
he had given me for Christmas two weeks before. After the funeral my
mother framed the print behind glass and hung it on her bedroom wall.
It's been there ever since, and looks as good today as the day it was
printed.

That is my longevity test, and it's ongoing. IMHO you can't get a true
longevity test unless you actually wait until the print fades. Anything
else is just an estimate, and subject to errors of assumption.

Check back with me in another 10 years, and I'll let you know if there's
been any change in my brother's photo.

TJ
 
whatcartridge.com said:
If you are in any way interested in printing quality photos on your
inkjet, you should know about Wilhelm Imaging Research.
.....


Recently he tested third party inks from several common suppliers -
including Island Inkjet, Carrot Ink, Staples, Office Depot, Office Max,
Caboodle Cartridge and Cartridge World. These were either third party
or refilled cartridges.
Click to expand...

I read this article a month or two ago. It's a great article and Wilhelm
has made good contributions. However, when people who are very critical
customers, such as the artist Neil Slade, discuss their practical,
discerning use of aftermarket inks, the brands that Wilhelm mentioned
are not considered. Every mention I've seen about Staples ink says that
it's junk (and overpriced junk, too). The only reloading ink that I saw
at Fry's recently, was "one size fits all," and at quite a stiff price
considering that the kit was from China. And the store manager told me
that if I didn't like the ink, I was the stuckee ("If you open it, you
can't return it.").

I don't think that we can expect good quality from sellers named "Ike's
Ink Madhouse," "Inkhouse Insanity," "Cartridges R Us," "Ink-o-rama," and
"Inkjet Whoopie! ('Trust us: we've sold billions of cartridges')"

Slade likes MIS ink (not IMS one-size-for-all that Costco used to sell),
Computer Friends, and Inkgrabber (for reloads). Slade uses Canon
printers. It's really too bad that Wilhelm didn't test the more serious
of these ink sources.

I recently ordered three cartridges from Inkgrabber for my two HP
machines. So far, I'm pleased with the quality and certainly the price.
My only complaint is that they shipped it in a paper bag -- and that, to
me, is disrespectful and potentially serious.

Too bad that Wilhelm didn't try better products -- I trust his research;
too bad that the sample wasn't what we in this group would want to hear
about.

Richard
 
Richard said:
whatcartridge.com wrote:


Too bad that Wilhelm didn't try better products -- I trust his research;
too bad that the sample wasn't what we in this group would want to hear
about.
Click to expand...

Incomprehensible "Wilhelm" doesn't follow this newsgroup, otherwise he
would have discovered that no one here uses the inks he was wasting his
time testing.

Prints are apparently interrogated under "450 lux" light for "12 hours
per day." Admittedly I don't know how bright that is, but it just may be
a torture test. My images are subjected to normal room light, away from
direct sun. Special projects are kept away in dark drawers and shelves.
They're in perfect condition after several years.

-Taliesyn
 
Incomprehensible "Wilhelm" doesn't follow this newsgroup, otherwise he
would have discovered that no one here uses the inks he was wasting his
time testing.

Prints are apparently interrogated under "450 lux" light for "12 hours
per day." Admittedly I don't know how bright that is, but it just may be
a torture test. My images are subjected to normal room light, away from
direct sun. Special projects are kept away in dark drawers and shelves.
They're in perfect condition after several years.

-Taliesyn
Click to expand...


I did my own fade test. I printed shaded color bars and pictures on
various papers with Canon ink and MIS ink. I put them in a west
facing window for 6 months. The Canon ink on either Canon or
Epson paper was the clear winner. There was little fading and
the gray bar remained gray. The MIS was slightly worse, it faded
uniformly, so color balance was still good. The biggest variable
was in the paper. Canon and Epson were best, Cotsco was
somewhat worse, Konica was considerably worse, HP and
Canon matte were pretty bad. On the latter the mengenta bar
was almost gone so color balance was poor.

The Epson paper I use is their Premium Glossy Photo paper.
It has a nicer looking surface than the Kirkland and when it
goes on sale at office depot at 2 for 1 it is about $25 for 100
sheets, not that much more expensive than the Kirkland.
So for my money I am using Epson Premium and MIS ink.
 
ray said:
I did my own fade test. I printed shaded color bars and pictures on
various papers with Canon ink and MIS ink. I put them in a west
facing window for 6 months. The Canon ink on either Canon or
Epson paper was the clear winner. There was little fading and
the gray bar remained gray. The MIS was slightly worse, it faded
uniformly, so color balance was still good. The biggest variable
was in the paper. Canon and Epson were best, Cotsco was
somewhat worse, Konica was considerably worse, HP and
Canon matte were pretty bad. On the latter the mengenta bar
was almost gone so color balance was poor.

The Epson paper I use is their Premium Glossy Photo paper.
It has a nicer looking surface than the Kirkland and when it
goes on sale at office depot at 2 for 1 it is about $25 for 100
sheets, not that much more expensive than the Kirkland.
So for my money I am using Epson Premium and MIS ink.
Click to expand...

Good choice...MIS ink is amazing aftermarket ink and works great on
Epson paper.
 
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