Refill Canon 4200 black carts

  • Thread starter Thread starter Martin ©¿©¬ unohu
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Martin ©¿©¬ unohu

Hi
The Black : CLI-8BK & Black : PGI-5BK use different inks
But jettec only seem to offer only one universal black ink, which
suppliers say is suitable
Yet other sites I have visited offer Black Dye & Black Pigment inks

My first question:- which cart uses dye & which cart uses pigment?
2nd question:- would I be better using seperate dye & pigment inks to
get good printing results rather than a universal ink.

I have already bought some jettec universal black and am about to
venture into the refilling world, but having found that there are
seperate inks available, I'm hesitant to begin until I get some advice

Any help would be greatly appreciated
 
Hi
The Black : CLI-8BK & Black : PGI-5BK use different inks
But jettec only seem to offer only one universal black ink, which
suppliers say is suitable
Yet other sites I have visited offer Black Dye & Black Pigment inks

My first question:- which cart uses dye & which cart uses pigment?
2nd question:- would I be better using seperate dye & pigment inks to
get good printing results rather than a universal ink.

I have already bought some jettec universal black and am about to
venture into the refilling world, but having found that there are
seperate inks available, I'm hesitant to begin until I get some advice

Any help would be greatly appreciated
Click to expand...

The CLI-8BK uses pigment ink. It is used for plain paper printing.
The PGI-5BK is dye ink and is used for photo's. The color inks are
dye based and do not mix well with pigmented inks, hence the need for
2 different black inks. In general universal inks are not a good
idea. If you refill use inks that are formulated for your particular
printer. I have tried inks from 5 different vendors. Some of them
provide very good color match. None of the inks provide fade
resistance equal to the Canon Chroma Life 100. The best that I could
find was MIS which provides a good color match but fades about 20
times faster than the Canon. I use MIS ink for all my non critical
printing and Canon for the photos that I display.
 
The CLI-8BK uses pigment ink. It is used for plain paper printing.
The PGI-5BK is dye ink and is used for photo's. The color inks are
dye based and do not mix well with pigmented inks, hence the need for
2 different black inks. In general universal inks are not a good
idea. If you refill use inks that are formulated for your particular
printer. I have tried inks from 5 different vendors. Some of them
provide very good color match. None of the inks provide fade
resistance equal to the Canon Chroma Life 100. The best that I could
find was MIS which provides a good color match but fades about 20
times faster than the Canon. I use MIS ink for all my non critical
printing and Canon for the photos that I display.
Click to expand...

Thank you George
That info is very helpful
 
The CLI-8BK uses pigment ink. It is used for plain paper printing.
The PGI-5BK is dye ink and is used for photo's.
Click to expand...

I thought it's exactly the other way: PGI8-Bk (and the former BCI-3eBk)
are pigmented for text black, while the CLI-8 (and former BCI-6) are dye
based for color prints.


Pigmented inks may require bigger nozzles and larger ink drops,
resultin in a lower resolution - but that's good enough for text.

Dye inks for color may have to match the other color inks, less for
color matching (black should be black), but for appropriate chemical and
physical matching, since colors are mixed while printing over each
other. But that's more a theoretical problem. Black dye is the least
critical color.

But dye based ink is less black than pigmented, which offers a better
coverage and saturation.

I've seen special set offers which included e.g. KMP black pigmented for
the jettec dye colors.

- Martin
 
Martin said:
Hi
The Black : CLI-8BK & Black : PGI-5BK use different inks
But jettec only seem to offer only one universal black ink, which
suppliers say is suitable
Yet other sites I have visited offer Black Dye & Black Pigment inks
Click to expand...

If you believe them then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
My first question:- which cart uses dye & which cart uses pigment?
2nd question:- would I be better using seperate dye & pigment inks to
get good printing results rather than a universal ink.
Click to expand...

You would be better off using Canon OEM ink.
I have already bought some jettec universal black and am about to
venture into the refilling world,
Click to expand...

Would you like to buy a printhead.
 
george said:
The CLI-8BK uses pigment ink. It is used for plain paper printing.
The PGI-5BK is dye ink and is used for photo's. The color inks are
dye based and do not mix well with pigmented inks, hence the need for
2 different black inks. In general universal inks are not a good
idea. If you refill use inks that are formulated for your particular
printer.
Click to expand...
I have tried inks from 5 different vendors. Some of them
provide very good color match.
Click to expand...
None of the inks provide fade
resistance equal to the Canon Chroma Life 100. The best that I could
find was MIS which provides a good color match but fades about 20
times faster than the Canon. I use MIS ink for all my non critical
printing and Canon for the photos that I display.
Click to expand...

This I can understand. You are willing to risk your printhead to do the
lot of printing where you are not as concerned about true quality and
permance and you do admit the fact that the quality and fade resistance
of Canon OEM ink is better.

The problem is that many of the idiots and children who post here will
either not admit that, or do not have the ability to discern the
difference, or who are associated with the relabelers and have some
beneift in providing marginal and incorrect advice to some poor moron
that does not know what they are doing.
 
I thought it's exactly the other way: PGI8-Bk (and the former BCI-3eBk)
are pigmented for text black, while the CLI-8 (and former BCI-6) are dye
based for color prints.
Click to expand...

I think you are correct Martin
pigment ink (PGI-5Bk), photo dye ink (CLI-8Bk),

Would you know if I could use the jettec universal black ink in the
PGI-5Bk ?

Thank you
 
I think you are correct Martin
pigment ink (PGI-5Bk), photo dye ink (CLI-8Bk),

Would you know if I could use the jettec universal black ink in the
PGI-5Bk ?
Click to expand...

'Jettec universal black ink'? I wouldn't recommend such ink - the proper
pigment size is required, otherwise you may block your nozzles. I doubt
that the same bigmented ink is suited for bubble jet as well as for
piezo print heads. Take the proper one (R28). At the moment I don't see
a difference between BCI-3eBk and PGI-5Bk refill ink from Jettec. That's
ok, since the iP5000 with BCI-6 and BCI-3eBk did not work that much
different than iP4200/iP4300.... But the oldfashionned i560 etc. worked
with old BCI-3 and BCI-3e, where the old BCI-3e from 3rd party is not
suited.

Personally, I'd recommend the KMP pigmented ink when you are in Europe,
Martin
 
'Jettec universal black ink'? I wouldn't recommend such ink - the proper
pigment size is required, otherwise you may block your nozzles. I doubt
that the same bigmented ink is suited for bubble jet as well as for
piezo print heads.
Click to expand...

Hi Martin
Take the proper one (R28). At the moment I don't see a difference between BCI-3eBk and PGI-5Bk refill ink from Jettec.
Click to expand...
That's the one (R28) that I have -
so u think it will be OK to refill the PGI-5Bk then?

What do u think about the Jettec (R29) Canon 3 Colour Refill Kit?

I have been looking at http://www.proprint.co.uk/canon_ink.htm
They are doing both blacks & the colours
Are the prices competitive?
 
Hi Martin
That's the one (R28) that I have -
so u think it will be OK to refill the PGI-5Bk then?
Click to expand...

That's what I said.
What do u think about the Jettec (R29) Canon 3 Colour Refill Kit?
Click to expand...

Should be one of the best refill kits.
I have been looking at http://www.proprint.co.uk/canon_ink.htm
They are doing both blacks & the colours
Are the prices competitive?
Click to expand...

I don't know the UK prices. Who's the manufacturer of those inks? They
don't name Jettec, but Inkjet (and not InkTec).

As an example: tintenalarm.de names (prices in Euro):

JetTec KMP InkTec
1000 ml 31.38 31.38 40.69
200 ml 13.59
100 ml 7.84 8.36
90 ml+ 8.36
40 ml+ 8.88

+ are Kits including tooling


Martin
 
Hi Martin
Where do u get your KMP ink from?
Click to expand...

ebay

Since u named UK: http://www.kmp-uk.co.uk/ should be up, but the site
is not yet done.


KMP Crusader Manufacturing Ltd.
Hardwick Industrial Estate
King´s Lynn
Norfolk PE30 4LD
England
Phone: +44 (0) 15 53 / 81 72 00
Fax: +44 (0) 15 53 / 69 19 09
Email: (e-mail address removed)
Internet: www.kmp-uk.co.uk


- Martin
 
Martin said:
'Jettec universal black ink'? I wouldn't recommend such ink - the proper
pigment size is required, otherwise you may block your nozzles. I doubt
that the same bigmented ink is suited for bubble jet as well as for
piezo print heads. Take the proper one (R28). At the moment I don't see
a difference between BCI-3eBk and PGI-5Bk refill ink from Jettec. That's
ok, since the iP5000 with BCI-6 and BCI-3eBk did not work that much
different than iP4200/iP4300.... But the oldfashionned i560 etc. worked
with old BCI-3 and BCI-3e, where the old BCI-3e from 3rd party is not
suited.

Personally, I'd recommend the KMP pigmented ink when you are in Europe,
Click to expand...

Personally, I'd recommend Canon OEM ink for the best consistency, most
resistant to fading, best quality and the lowest risk of prinhead damage.
 
Hi Martin
Just thought I'd give u an update
Refilled a Magenta cart this morming and made a right mess
Used tape to seal the outlet hole and it leaked, but continued and
eventually it stopped dripping after I got the fillhole sealed with a
self-tapper and o-ring

Then I tried a Cyan and used an elastic band to hold the original
stopper in place, filled the cart without mess and sealed fill hole
with self-tapper. I am pleased with the result

The proof of the pudding will be be when I install the carts and try
printing

Thank you for all your help
It is much appreciated
 
Martin said:
Hi Martin
Just thought I'd give u an update
Refilled a Magenta cart this morming and made a right mess
Click to expand...

You would not have a mess if you would use what you are supposed to use
in your printer. I told you it was messy.
Used tape to seal the outlet hole and it leaked, but continued and
eventually it stopped dripping after I got the fillhole sealed with a
self-tapper and o-ring

Then I tried a Cyan and used an elastic band to hold the original
stopper in place, filled the cart without mess and sealed fill hole
with self-tapper. I am pleased with the result

The proof of the pudding
Click to expand...

is that your photo quality will be less
your prints will fade more rapidly
your risk of a printhead clog will go up
 
Hi Martin
Just thought I'd give u an update
Refilled a Magenta cart this morming and made a right mess
Used tape to seal the outlet hole and it leaked, but continued and
eventually it stopped dripping after I got the fillhole sealed with a
self-tapper and o-ring

Then I tried a Cyan and used an elastic band to hold the original
stopper in place, filled the cart without mess and sealed fill hole
with self-tapper. I am pleased with the result

The proof of the pudding will be be when I install the carts and try
printing

Thank you for all your help
It is much appreciated
Click to expand...

In addition to instructions on every bulk ink sellers' web sites you will
find lots of information, tips, things to avoid, etc on the Nifty Stuff
Forum. Now that you are getting into refilling your carts it is worth an
evening's read through this site. You might also go onto the link for Neil
Slade at the top of the Nifty page and read his info. He has gotten away
from refilling and now uses G&G prefilled bci-6 carts. Some people have
reported problems with these carts, however, and I feel that refilling is
far more reliable. In addition, you have no choice when it comes to the
newer chipped carts. Although there are some prefilled carts you would have
to remove the chip from the OEM cart and place it on the aftermarket cart.
Better to just refill!

I was using Epson printers prior to reading Slade's info two plus years ago
and subsequently bought Canon printers and MIS inks following his advice. I
don't know if he still shows the refill technique that I saw originally, but
he simply removed the near-empty cart, put his finger over the outlet to do
a quick seal, open the fill hole and inject the ink, reclose the fill hole,
let it drip til it stops, blot on a piece of tissue flat on the table so you
don't dry out the outlet filter, and put the cart back into the printer. I
use latex medical exam gloves to keep ink off my fingers when I did this. I
worked just fine. Two negatives - one is that the time you take to do the
refill is time the intake in the printhead can dry and possibly lead to a
clog sometime later, and two - you can keep a workflow going better with at
least one backup set of carts you had refilled in your leisure.
 
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