Recommendation needed on new mobo

[tungley]

Back in the 90s, I built hundreds of pc's from scratch, and was in love with the
Asus P2B, the best BX board out there, IMO. Then I got sick, and unable to work
with my hands anymore -- so I haven't been keeping up with current technology.
I've been limping along with my 8 year old pc, having long ago maxed out it's
o/c abilities, o/c a Celeron 700 to 874mhz. Using the latest BIOS (a beta at
that) I can't go any further in that regard. It's still running fine, but way
too slow for my tastes, so I want to build at least one more for myself.

I don't do anything special -- just lots of downloading/uploading (torrents),
email, surfing, dvd/cd burning, etc. Looking for a reasonably priced (under
$200) mobo with room for lots of RAM now and later. I have three hard drives and
a burner, so I don't need to do RAID or SCSI -- just simple ATA 100 or 133. Have
an ATI Radeon 7500 AGP card, which I'm happy with, so need to upgrade there.
Reliable places to buy this mobo would also be appreciated.

Also, what's my best bang for the buck with regards to CPU? I used to always buy
the CPU that had been out at least a year, which allowed me to get almost the
current highest speed one, for the lowest price. Does that still make the most
sense? What's my best choice for CPU?

Thanks for any help. I just don't have the stamina to spend the time necessary
to read up on the current state of affairs anymore, thus this shortcut method of
finding out what I need to know.

 

[KC Computers]

Back in the 90s, I built hundreds of pc's from scratch, and was in love
with the
Asus P2B, the best BX board out there, IMO. Then I got sick, and unable to
work
with my hands anymore -- so I haven't been keeping up with current
technology.
I've been limping along with my 8 year old pc, having long ago maxed out
it's
o/c abilities, o/c a Celeron 700 to 874mhz. Using the latest BIOS (a beta
at
that) I can't go any further in that regard. It's still running fine, but
way
too slow for my tastes, so I want to build at least one more for myself.
I don't do anything special -- just lots of downloading/uploading
(torrents),
email, surfing, dvd/cd burning, etc. Looking for a reasonably priced
(under
$200) mobo with room for lots of RAM now and later. I have three hard
drives and
a burner, so I don't need to do RAID or SCSI -- just simple ATA 100 or
133. Have
an ATI Radeon 7500 AGP card, which I'm happy with, so need to upgrade
there.
Reliable places to buy this mobo would also be appreciated.

We are a reputable dealer (for over 15 years...see reviews at
www.resellerratings.com)
and highly recommend an ASUS Athlon64 S939 motherboard. If you will
be re-using your AGP video card, then I suggest the A8V model. If you will
be upgrading, then PCI Express is the new video standard and the A8N-E or
A8V-E models are a good choices. Athlon64's run as fast or faster than
equivalent
Pentium ones, run cooler, use less power, etc. for most apps.
E-mail us for more info or quote.

Today's P4 and Athlon64 motherboards require a power supply that
also has a 4-pin power connector in addition to the 20- or 24-pin one.
What make and model is your power supply?

Also, what's my best bang for the buck with regards to CPU? I used to
always buy
the CPU that had been out at least a year, which allowed me to get almost
the
current highest speed one, for the lowest price. Does that still make the
most
sense? What's my best choice for CPU?

It also makes sense to buy the best value CPU right now since you aren't
a power user and it sounds like you have a budget to work with. The
Athlon64 3200+ S939 CPUs is one of the better values now and I use
one myself.

 

[Daniel Mandic]

tungley wrote:


Hello Tungley!

Back in the 90s, I built hundreds of pc's from scratch, and was in
love with the Asus P2B, the best BX board out there, IMO. Then I got
sick, and unable to work with my hands anymore -- so I haven't been
keeping up with current technology. I've been limping along with my
8 year old pc, having long ago maxed out it's o/c abilities, o/c a
Celeron 700 to 874mhz. Using the latest BIOS (a beta at that) I can't
go any further in that regard. It's still running fine, but way too
slow for my tastes, so I want to build at least one more for myself. +

Mine is pretty older, in some meanings. SCSI is 95 or 96 and the 12X CD
is taken from the A2000 (Commodore with an Advanced Systems&Software
68060/60 Turbocard). Soundcard is even older, I took it from my DOS
Gamestation I always had beneath (beside ;-)) my Amiga.

Well, after a while I got a P2B-F.... after a while more I otfitted it
with a Celeron Cu P3/700... left everything at 66FSB and was happy
since the Tualatin P3-S exchanged the CPU.

Unfortunately there is no Possibility for me to outsource the full
capability of the P3-S/1400, thus to underclocking. Well, a bit more
;-) as I have it on 103MHz FSB. Makes nice <1Ghz P3...

I don't do anything special -- just lots of downloading/uploading
(torrents), email, surfing, dvd/cd burning, etc. Looking for a
reasonably priced (under $200) mobo with room for lots of RAM now and
later. I have three hard drives and a burner, so I don't need to do
RAID or SCSI -- just simple ATA 100 or 133. Have an ATI Radeon 7500
AGP card, which I'm happy with, so need to upgrade there. Reliable
places to buy this mobo would also be appreciated.

Many cheap Boards are around. Maybe something with AMD, you could
afford with 200 and being faster than a Celeron P3.
So far I know, can you reach more than 2000XP with a P2B System.
My P2B-F can compare to a 2000XP (As AMD numerates their processing
power). In Memory Cache etc.-Latency, a Dual Channel RAM MB is needed
to be faster. AMD64 is now, two times faster (Latency) than the mighty
BX, Dual Channel of course.

Also, what's my best bang for the buck with regards to CPU? I used to
always buy the CPU that had been out at least a year, which allowed
me to get almost the current highest speed one, for the lowest price.
Does that still make the most sense? What's my best choice for CPU?

I don´t know where you live. Sorry.

For me the best choice is the Tualatin. Well, Dothans or Banias are
told to be similar, espacially with low-power consumption, but very
expensive and not really affordable with 200 bucks. You would not even
get the CPU.

For my daily computing is the Tualatin the best choice. And pretty fast
as well ;-)
With M.A.M.E. (Arcade emulator) I played a Arcade Game from 2000, with
one 68020/16 and one 68000/16 for Sound. 50 or 60FPS! Sure.
Also with the GeForce4 ti4200 (My only alternative, having BX133) I
outperformed a Palomino 1800XP with ease. And that w/o clocking to
FSB133 . I used Atari´s NwN for Reference.

Thanks for any help. I just don't have the stamina to spend the time
necessary to read up on the current state of affairs anymore, thus
this shortcut method of finding out what I need to know.

No matter. I have repeated myself many times in this NG, so I shortened
it a bit =


Just ask, maybe I can also help you with other systems than the
P2B-series. But don´t expect too much, so much I have seen now is
nothing compareable to a BX Chipset. For me a Computer without DOS is
not a IBM-PC. Otherwise if you do not need DOS anymore, many other
systems are available.

I saw many Bundles, like: Slot-T Wonder with 1300/100FSB Tualatin...
for 79bucks, or so.. The P3-S (133FSB) is even faster (and expensive),
also Tualatin.
A 1300 Tualero is pretty faster than a 700 CuCeleron. Double 2ndLevel
Cache, lower 2nd-cache latency (I just know the P3-S having Zero, I
don´t know the 100FSB Tualatin, maybe also 0 - Your Celeron should have
2), 0.13um Wiring-Technology (I think you know what I mean ), etc,
etc, etc....




Kind Regards,

Daniel Mandic


P.S.: I wish you good Recovery.

 

[Daniel Mandic]

KC Computers wrote:

with. The Athlon64 3200+ S939 CPUs is one of the better values now
and I use one myself.

Hi KC!



Yes, really a nice system. A good friend of mine is also havin´ a 64bit
AMD. Pretty fast.

I have a Praktica Reflex Camera (1953), and believe me.. One part from
there is enough for me. this beast got me in annoying trouble and
nearly a second time. But it makes better Photos than today parts from
Dresden. Sure. At least

I prefer californian technology. It´s more Computer.


What about Sossaman? Nothing available? Two Two-Cored CPU MB´s!? 4?
Or will this all be thrown away in two years?





Best Regards,

Daniel Mandic

 

[Roger Hamlett]

We are a reputable dealer (for over 15 years...see reviews at
www.resellerratings.com)
and highly recommend an ASUS Athlon64 S939 motherboard. If you will
be re-using your AGP video card, then I suggest the A8V model. If you
will
be upgrading, then PCI Express is the new video standard and the A8N-E
or
A8V-E models are a good choices. Athlon64's run as fast or faster than
equivalent
Pentium ones, run cooler, use less power, etc. for most apps.
E-mail us for more info or quote.

Today's P4 and Athlon64 motherboards require a power supply that
also has a 4-pin power connector in addition to the 20- or 24-pin one.
What make and model is your power supply?




It also makes sense to buy the best value CPU right now since you aren't
a power user and it sounds like you have a budget to work with. The
Athlon64 3200+ S939 CPUs is one of the better values now and I use
one myself.

Despite this being a dealer talking (evil grin), I'd have to second what
is said here. Basically, I too had 'loved' the P2B, P2B-DS etc., boards.
For several years, they were the reliability/performance benchmark, with
it being amazing how often hardware that was 'faster' on paper, still did
little to outperform these. Over the next few years, processors got
faster, and got hotter, with the AMD units in particular, getting a lot
hotter. Then with the launch of the AMD-64, AMD 'leapfrogged' Intel in
this regard. I still remember powering up my first AMD-64 system, and
after a few seconds, thinking something must be wrong, because the
processor fan had not started. Switching off, I touched the processor
heatsink, expecting it to be well 'hot', to find that it was basically at
room temperature. After switching on again, a few minutes latter the fan
started. With a modern case, which has slow fans, you can make the
quietest machine for years, that offers great performance too. You might
find the extra cost of the 3500+ is not that large, and these two chips
(3200+, and 3500+), are the best value around. In the S939 suggested, you
will also be getting the 'Venice' core, which gives SSE2, SSE3 etc..
Though you can probably go with your existing case, a PSU upgrade may well
be worthwhile, since though the power demands can often be met by older
supplies, the instantaneous peak currents, can cause problems, and with
care a new supply may be quieter too.

Best Wishes

 

[tungley]

I'll be upgrading the box and power supply, too -- just forgot to mention it.
Not only do I know that the ps will not be adequate for my needs, I had to
really chop up the back frame when I installed the 'slocket' for the celeron
that I am overclocking. The clearance just wasn't there, so out came the saw.
Between the cuts and the bend-backs, it's not going to be good to anyone once I
transfer the parts I'm keeping.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[BC]

....highly recommend an ASUS Athlon64 S939 motherboard.

It also makes sense to buy the best value CPU right now since you aren't
a power user and it sounds like you have a budget to work with. The
Athlon64 3200+ S939 CPUs is one of the better values now and I use
one myself.

Concur completely with KC.

I am also using an AMD 64 s939--runs cool, quiet, fast.

Built an Intel s775 recently: runs much hotter, noisier, more expensive.

Would recommend 2 x 1g of name brand high quality RAM--Kingston for one
(have been very happy with Kingston, and is on most of Asus' Qualified
vendor lists).

You might want to get a more modern hard drive with 8 or 16MB cache for
the OS, use your other drives for data storage.

Good luck, you will enjoy having a modern machine. I upgraded from a
PIII 1Ghz, so going from a Celeron 874 is going to be a big improvement.

BC

 

[Derek]

I'll be upgrading the box and power supply, too -- just forgot to mention it.
Not only do I know that the ps will not be adequate for my needs, I had to
really chop up the back frame when I installed the 'slocket' for the celeron
that I am overclocking. The clearance just wasn't there, so out came the saw.
Between the cuts and the bend-backs, it's not going to be good to anyone once I
transfer the parts I'm keeping.

Thanks for all the help.

Those were good recommendations by KC. Though you mentioned you have
some old IDE drives around, many of the newer drives are significantly
quieter than what was available 5 years ago. If that is a concern, then
then you might consider the latest Samsung Spinpoint series hard drives
and the very latest Western Digitals as those two are about the quietest
drives out there now. For all things quiet you might want to look at
http://www.silentpcreview.com They also have sound recordings there so
you can hear how various hard drives sound as well as various fans.

I have a very quiet system as follows:
M/B Asus A8N-SLI Premium (the Premium has no fan on the
motherboard chipset, however to stick with AGP, the A8V
is what you need)
CPU AMD64 3500 Venice
Power Supply Antec Phantom 350 (it has no fans whatsoever, and works
well as long as you aren't into heavy gaming)
Fans 2 Nexus 120mm D12SL 1000rpm, 36.9cfm
Harddrives 2 Samsung 250GB SP2504C (whisper quiet!)
Soundcard Creative X-Fi Platinum (if into playing music, this card
compared to early on-board sound chips is like comparing
CDs to 8 track tape, truly an amazing soundcard - and
very new to the market.

 

[tungley]

Concur completely with KC.

I am also using an AMD 64 s939--runs cool, quiet, fast.

Built an Intel s775 recently: runs much hotter, noisier, more expensive.

Would recommend 2 x 1g of name brand high quality RAM--Kingston for one
(have been very happy with Kingston, and is on most of Asus' Qualified
vendor lists).

I forgot that there is a new kind of RAM, right? DDR?

You might want to get a more modern hard drive with 8 or 16MB cache for
the OS, use your other drives for data storage.

My main drive has 8mb cache (it's only a year old), and I indeed use it only for
the program files. All storage is on the other drives.

 

[tungley]

Those were good recommendations by KC. Though you mentioned you have
some old IDE drives around, many of the newer drives are significantly
quieter than what was available 5 years ago. If that is a concern, then
then you might consider the latest Samsung Spinpoint series hard drives
and the very latest Western Digitals as those two are about the quietest
drives out there now. For all things quiet you might want to look at
http://www.silentpcreview.com They also have sound recordings there so
you can hear how various hard drives sound as well as various fans.

I have a very quiet system as follows:
M/B Asus A8N-SLI Premium (the Premium has no fan on the
motherboard chipset, however to stick with AGP, the A8V
is what you need)
CPU AMD64 3500 Venice
Power Supply Antec Phantom 350 (it has no fans whatsoever, and works
well as long as you aren't into heavy gaming)
Fans 2 Nexus 120mm D12SL 1000rpm, 36.9cfm
Harddrives 2 Samsung 250GB SP2504C (whisper quiet!)
Soundcard Creative X-Fi Platinum (if into playing music, this card
compared to early on-board sound chips is like comparing
CDs to 8 track tape, truly an amazing soundcard - and
very new to the market.

Thanks for the added info. All of my drives are relatively new (none older than
2 years).

By the way, will I have to choose between AGP and PCI Express, or might they
both be present on some mobos?

I forgot about the two ISA cards I have, guess I will have to upgrade the sound
and modem. I care nothing about sound on a pc, so I never minded sticking with
my Yamaha based ISA sound card. Also, I keep a USR 56K ISA modem installed for
those times when my DSL is down. Will any of these boards supply me with ISA
slots, or are they gone like the dinosaurs?

 

[KC Computers]

....highly recommend an ASUS Athlon64 S939 motherboard.

I forgot that there is a new kind of RAM, right? DDR?

Yes, today's Athlon64 motherboards use DDR. PC3200 400MHz
modules are typically the best value. Nothing uses older SDRAM any
more.

 

[BC]

I forgot that there is a new kind of RAM, right? DDR?

Yes, there is DDR, and now DDR2.

Intel is pushing DDR2; the transition they had hoped for is taking
longer than they expected, so the supply of DDR2 chips is ample, and
prices have come down. (Corsair valueram 512 x 2 DDR2 is on sale for $66
at Newegg).

Currently AMD S939 motherboards use DDR memory, not DDR2.
DDR 3200 Corsair valueram 512 x 2 is about $81.

It does not pay to buy cheap RAM: recommend a name brand like
Corsair, Crucial, Kingston; have never purchased Geil or OCZ, but I hear
they are good. Any memory you get should come with a lifetime warranty.

No doubt KC would fix you up with a good set of DDR, and I would assume
(?) do a burn in for you to make sure it passes MEMTESTx86, etc. Even
buying good memory, have had to return perhaps 1/10 for replacement,
since they weren't up to spec. (No overclocking, just standard.)

And, again, for problem free computing, you might want to consider ECC
ram--the Athlon 64 can handle it (depending on motherboard BIOS), and it
can prevent data corruption.

HTH,

BC

 

[KC Computers]

I'll be upgrading the box and power supply, too -- just forgot to

By the way, will I have to choose between AGP and PCI Express, or might
they
both be present on some mobos?

You pretty much need to decide between a motherboard with an AGP slot
or one with PCI Express. If you will be re-using your AGP video card, then
I suggest the ASUS A8V model (I use one myself). If you will
be upgrading, then PCI Express is the new video standard and the A8N-E or
A8V-E models are good choices.

I forgot about the two ISA cards I have, guess I will have to upgrade the
sound
and modem. I care nothing about sound on a pc, so I never minded sticking
with
my Yamaha based ISA sound card. Also, I keep a USR 56K ISA modem installed
for
those times when my DSL is down. Will any of these boards supply me with
ISA
slots, or are they gone like the dinosaurs?

Most of today's motherboards do not support ISA cards. Most motherboards do
have built-in sound and networking. A PCI modem will therefore be
required.