Brooks said:
I'm looking at upgrading the motherboard in my computer, and I'm looking
for some suggestions. The "problem" is that this is an older system,
and so I'm having some trouble finding good recommendations that apply
the the right era of hardware.
The system, as it stands, looks like this:
Tyan T1837 Thunderbolt motherboard.
Pentium-III 1100MHz processor (in a socket-370-to-slot-1 adaptor)
1.5 GB of PC133 ECC memory
Matrox G550 video card
3Com ISA-bus modem
I'm completely satisfied with it, except for one thing: I just got an
old Apple Cinema Display with 1600x1024 resolution, and the G550 doesn't
go that high on the digital output. So I bought a Matrox P650, which
supports that -- but it's AGP 4x/8x, and the T1837 only supports AGP 2x.
Thus, I'm looking for a motherboard upgrade that will let me use all the
rest of my existing components, but will support the P650. In
particular, I want something that will properly support the ECC memory,
rather than just using it as if it's non-ECC.
Any recommendations? (Is there even such a thing as a motherboard that
supports a P3, ECC PC-133 memory, and AGP-8x?)
Thanks much!
- Brooks
Your motherboard could be the S1837.
http://www.tyan.com/archive/products/html/thunderbolt.html
My TUV4X spare motherboard, comes pretty close. But it doesn't support
ECC. You may find choices that support ECC (but not 1.5GB of memory),
or boards that support 1.5GB of memory (but not ECC).
I'd be tempted to solve it with another graphics card.
For AGP info, you can try here:
http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html
Your motherboard uses either 440GX or 440BX, either of which is
an "AGP 3.3V Motherboard". The "Practical Motherboard And Card Compatibility"
table lists "Universal AGP 3.0 Card" as a modern, universally compatible
video card type to try to use.
For example, I have an FX5200, normally listed as an AGP 4X/8X card.
But I can plug it into my 440BX board and it works fine. (By comparison,
my ATI 9800Pro, which should work, only gives me missing video beeps.
The connector on the ATI card, does fit the video slot.)
I've actually tried two different models of FX5200, and both worked.
The FX5200 does have a VGA and a DVI-I connector (some only DVI-D), but
the problem is the maximum resolution. Some Nvidia GPUs had problems with
the ability to run the DVI link at full speed (165MHz ?). Thus, Nvidia has
to limit the resolution selections possible, to try to make their customers
happy. It wouldn't do, to run the interface at 165MHz, and have colored
"snow" on the screen of a DVI equipped monitor.
One product page listed 1600x1200 max digital for FX5200. A comment from a
Newegg review stated they could only get 1280x1024, but that could
be finger problems. It helps a lot, if the monitor is equipped with
a proper EDID (serial interface EEPROM on the monitor containing resolution
info). Alternately, a "monitor driver", which declares the resolution,
is another potential solution. Apple probably has no reason
to provide a monitor driver for PCs.
http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=128-P1-N309-LX&family=13
Another card in the Playtool list is the 9250 from ATI. I would have to
track down some manufacturer who lists the DVI resolutions, to determine
whether that is an alternative or not. It is pretty difficult to find
a competent manufacturer, who gives a proper spec listing on their
web site. You can track the "Partners" list from ATI or Nvidia, to
find all the different manufacturers of cards for them. At least
some of the partners, could be considered country bumpkins, only
capable of xeroxing reference designs.
More modern cards, use PCI Express GPU chips, and include a bridge
chip, to convert from AGP to PCI Express protocol. Rialto is the chip
on ATI cards. HSI is the chip on Nvidia cards. Both appear to me, to be
limited to 1.5V operation, meaning the keys in the AGP slot of the
motherboard should prevent either brand of card from fitting your
machine. In checking today, I did see a card, which *could* be using
a Rialto, which had both slots cut (1.5V and 3.3V). Which implies it
could be used in your motherboard. But I suspect this is just a mistake,
as I cannot imagine them suddenly making a 3.3V version of bridge chip.
The card is question is an X1050, which is just a rebadged X550 (they're
just reusing a previous generation GPU).
So there are possibilities on the video card front, as long as you
don't expect DirectX 9 and Shader Model 3, which is gamer stuff.
http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/
If you are still intent on going the motherboard upgrade route,
I would find another computer first. Remove the video card driver.
Remove the old video card. Install the P650. Install the P650
driver. Connect the Apple display. Try to get the desired
resolution. If you cannot get the desired results, reverse the
order, remove the P650 driver, pull the P650 etc. If the P650
combo with the Cinema display won't do as it is told, while in
another AGP computer, there is no sense swapping motherboards so
you can use the P650.
Odd resolutions can be a pain. Powerstrip from Entechtaiwan.com
is a tool for setting custom resolutions, and it primarily supports
ATI and Nvidia cards. If you use an Nvidia card, they have a custom
resolution dialog box you can experiment with, in their control panel.
The Nvidia driver may try to enforce whatever limit it feels like,
based on EDID or monitor driver info. For ATI card usage, I'm not aware
of an equivalent custom resolution dialog, and in the worst case,
Powerstrip can fix it. Entechtaiwan has a forum, with FAQ pages
containing more information.
This page gives some experiences of someone working with a
display with above normal resolution, and will give you
more background.
http://www.geocities.com/jgeneedid/
So finding a "Universal AGP 3.0 Card" that has DVI and supports the
resolution, is an alternative solution to replacing the motherboard.
If you want to go motherboard hunting, have a look here:
http://www.motherboards.org/mobot/index.html
Paul
