Recommend multifunction B&W printer?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bob Stringer
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Bob Stringer

My Dell printer (A940) is giving me grief, so I'm
considering getting a new one.

I don't need color; I use it just for documents, so I'm
guessing a laser printer is the right idea. I'd like to be
able to scan, copy & fax as well as print. Since I'm just
starting to look, I don't know what the suitable price range
is, but it would be nice not to have to pay an arm and a
leg.

I'd appreciate recommendations.

Thanks.
 
Here is a link to a multifunction printer that was posted here earlier
in the group:
http://shop4.outpost.com/product/4311355?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

I have the same versiononly with fax capability and it works great. It
is also economical to operate when using compatible ink cartridges.

Whoa! That's cheap. Thanks very much. (I missed the earlier
post, probably because I was racing through the thread to
look for laser printers.)

I don't know if it's justified or not, but I have the idea
that laser printers are cheaper in the long run if all I'm
doing is printing text -- which is in fact all I'm doing. Am
I wrong about that? I also kind of like the dryer print
produced by a laser printer -- something that really makes a
difference when I use a yellow highlighter on the printed
document -- documents recently printed by ink printers
usually smear.

But I have an open mind about this, if the Canon is really
the way to go.

Thanks.
 
My Dell printer (A940) is giving me grief, so I'm considering getting a new one.

I know a few people who have similar printers to the A940, the 920 I
believe. Problems from day one. I imagine it can be annoying not
being able to buy the lexmark ink at office depot due to the extra
notch Dell puts in. Cost per page is pretty high.
I don't need color; I use it just for documents, so I'm
guessing a laser printer is the right idea. I'd like to be
able to scan, copy & fax as well as print. Since I'm just
starting to look, I don't know what the suitable price range
is, but it would be nice not to have to pay an arm and a
leg.

Well in inkjet, there is only color, i've not seen a B&W inkjet sold in
eons. Some multifuctions oddly enough don't offer fax. Laser
multifuctionals seem to start at about $200 to $300 with fax at the
local office store where the more basic inkjets with fax are starting
at $100.00 to $200 with fax.

You could replace what you have with the Lexmark branded X5150. Same
thing but you can buy your ink from some place other than dell. Not
that I would, the cost of the ink is high and the output quality if
it's anything like the dell a920 is below average. Over 5c/page is
high.

I know Amazon and office depot have the (inkjet) Canon MP780 for about
$200 on sale (unknown shipping price). Tyipcal seems to be $300. This
was talked about in an earlier thread. I have the mp760 which is
similar except no fax, no auto sheet feeder, but a 35mm transparancy
adapter build into the lid. The MP780 lacks the color tilt LCD screen.
Basicly the 760 is geard more tward photos and the mp780 is geard more
tward documents and multisheet faxing, otherwise they are both basicly
the canon ip4000 printer with added features.

I paid more for mine two weeks ago to replace an old HP PSC 950. So
far i've been pleased with it. Cost per page for black is not as
*cheap* as some lasers, but it's real close. Any laser will give you
the benifit of thousands of pages without a refill and is worth
considering. Canon, the yield is listed as 500p black (2.4c/page).
Local price, $12.00 or so. Costco has nice 4 packs.

I looked at the (laser) HP3015 briefly for $300. I was thinking at
first I "had" a color inkjet already so didn't need a color
multi-fucational. But the toner costs $70 per 2000p (3.5c p) localy.
I can find it for $63 but we are still talking about 3c/page. The
brother multifuctionals were actually more reasonably priced in terms
of toner, but still on par with the canon inkjet in terms of cost/page.
The yields were slightly higher, 2500p.

In my case, I felt that two printers that took the same ink would be
more useful, esp if there wasn't a cost benifit to the laser. There is
almost always a quality benifit, a won't run in the rain benifit, a
designed to handle larger volumes benifit.
 
Bob said:
Whoa! That's cheap. Thanks very much. (I missed the earlier
post, probably because I was racing through the thread to
look for laser printers.)

I don't know if it's justified or not, but I have the idea
that laser printers are cheaper in the long run if all I'm
doing is printing text -- which is in fact all I'm doing. Am
I wrong about that? I also kind of like the dryer print
produced by a laser printer -- something that really makes a
difference when I use a yellow highlighter on the printed
document -- documents recently printed by ink printers
usually smear.

But I have an open mind about this, if the Canon is really
the way to go.

Personally, I think using compatible cartridges with a Canon printer is
no more expensive, and possibly even less, than a laser printer. The
inkjet will probably smear more under a highlighter and, IMO, the print
isn't as crisp as a laser. I guess which one you choose will depend on
your needs. I can tell you that the MP780 I have has been very reliable
and seems to be very well engineered. I have an HP 2100M that I use for
most of my B&W printing but I must admit I do use the MP780 more than I
thought I would for printing graphics (from Autocad) and text. Also,
the duplexing feature has been very handy on occasion.
 
Whoa! That's cheap.

I'm pretty sure the mp750 has NO fax. Do correct me if i'm wrong, i'm
going by the service manual for the mp750/mp780 and it's in german, but
according to it "FAX (nur MP 780)" [Fax (only MP 780)]. There might
be other models that offer fax, but not the mp750 or mp760.
I don't know if it's justified or not, but I have the idea
that laser printers are cheaper in the long run if all I'm
doing is printing text

In the past when you shelled out $75 for a cart with 4000p/5000p
yields, without a doubt laser was cheaper. But these multi fuctionals
have smaller yields and not so much smaller price per cart. For the
entry level lasers there are on par with cheaper inkjets.

Now I'm sure someone will chime in about after market refills. I for
one ordered MIS bulk ink for mine. But everyone and their neighbor
refills the canon inktanks. Someone says their dealer sells them ink
at $1.00/each, $5.00each seems average, vs canon's $12.00 at the local
store. Either way you go is not a bad deal per page.

I also kind of like the dryer print produced by a laser printer --
something that really makes a difference when I use a yellow highlighter
on the printed document -- documents recently printed by ink printers
usually smear.

Fair comment. The canon uses a pigmented black. It's not as good as
laser, but it's very good. I've been using a printout as a coaster
for my iced latté for the past few days. The ink does run after a few
hours, but not as badly as you'd expect. It's not a smear but more of
a greyish bleed resembling fjords. I can highlight it... it will run
with a few strokes to some degree but not too badly. I'm sure the
local store has demos of the ip4000 which uses the same ink. Get some
and see what you can do with it.

Also fair comment is the fact that even the entry level lasers are
geared for a higher monthly volume than inkjets. But, as another
thread pointed out some lasers while they say they will do envelopes
don't do them well. Inkjets are often more forgiving when it comes to
odd sized paper.
But I have an open mind about this, if the Canon is really
the way to go.

It is very much worth considering. Though I'd say the mp780 because it
has fax.
 
Samsung SCX-4100

Just looking at it at buy.com -- only $135 after rebate.
Didn't realize laser printers went that cheap. (Last time I
looked, though, was years ago when my office bought a couple
of them).

How well does the scanner work? I scan with relative
frequency, and one thing I'll say for the Dell that I
currently have, it scans excellent copies, whether to pdf or
to rtf.

To be specific about the scanner -- one problem I've seen
with a *dedicated* HP scanner -- and it's a problem I can't
live with -- is that the scans, while they look ok, are
almost useless when the scan is set to convert to rtf. In
rtf documents small groupings of text are placed in what are
essentially text boxes. The document, in other words,
doesn't scan out as a continuous stream of text, as in the
original document. Drives me nuts.

On the Buy.com site, all the comments were 5 of 5 except for
customer, who gave it a 3 out of 5 because he/she said that
the feed wasn't very good (I'm guessing the 5 of 5's didn't
have the same problem). Have you had a good experience
there?

Thanks very much.
 
Personally, I think using compatible cartridges with a
Canon printer is no more expensive, and possibly even less,
than a laser printer.

I guess I have to consider further then. One thing that's
been putting me off about the Dell is shelling out more
money for a 3 pack of cartridges than the printer cost me in
the first place.
The inkjet will probably smear more under a highlighter and,
IMO, the print isn't as crisp as a laser

That inclines me toward a laser, but not a deal breaker.
I guess which one you choose will depend on your needs. I
can tell you that the MP780 I have has been very reliable
and seems to be very well engineered.

Important too. It's been maybe seven years, but I'm still
almost in a state of shell shock from how often my first
printer kept breaking down (well, it was a cheapo, so I
guess I asked for it).
[snip] Also, the duplexing feature has been very handy on
occasion.

I wasn't even aware affordable printers would do that. Good
to know.

How does the Canon do with scanning? As I just mentioned in
reply to another message, I've had one particular problem
with a *dedicated* scanner that bugs the hell out of me.
It's virtually useless for scanning to rtf because in the
resulting document small groupings of text are placed in
text boxes; the text doesn't appear as a continuous stream.
So ... does the Canon create a serviceable rtf document when
it scans?

Thanks much.
 
Oh. Does it have fax? After briefly Googling, I don't see
anything saying it doesn't, but nothing saying that it does,
either.

(Fax is the least important to me, though.)

Thanks.
 
I'm pretty sure the mp750 has NO fax. Do correct me if i'm
wrong, i'm going by the service manual for the mp750/mp780
and it's in german, but according to it "FAX (nur MP 780)"
[Fax (only MP 780)]. There might be other models that
offer fax, but not the mp750 or mp760.

Looks like.

Given the price difference between the 750 and the 780,
though, I suspect I could do without fax if it came down to
it. I use that the least of any of the functions I'm looking
at.

I've never tried, but do you happen to know if there's a
work-around? For example, maybe scan in pdf and then fax the
pdf? Can that or something similar be done? If so, it would
be a PITA but not a big deal since I don't fax all that
much.
Now I'm sure someone will chime in about after market
refills. I for one ordered MIS bulk ink for mine. But
everyone and their neighbor refills the canon inktanks.
Someone says their dealer sells them ink at $1.00/each,
$5.00each seems average, vs canon's $12.00 at the local
store. Either way you go is not a bad deal per page.

It's been years since I looked at this, but way back when, I
was told by several people -- and fairly emphatically --
that refills weren't that good. Can't remember if they were
supposed to gum up the printer or whatever, but as a result
I never used them.

From what you say, though, they're just fine in your
experience? No downside?
But, as another thread pointed out some lasers while they
say they will do envelopes don't do them well. Inkjets
are often more forgiving when it comes to odd sized paper.

I don't use odd sized paper (haven't to date, at least), but
I do need to do envelopes. The HP Laserjets that we have at
the office (which are pretty old as these things go, and
were expensive at the time) do envelopes just fine. Do you
know if the envelope problem is specific to particular laser
printers, or is the problem somewhat common among them?

Thanks.
 
I know a few people who have similar printers to the A940,
the 920 I believe. Problems from day one. I imagine it
can be annoying not being able to buy the lexmark ink at
office depot due to the extra notch Dell puts in. Cost per
page is pretty high.

Actually, I'm not that down on the 940. It's done good work
for me. The scans, in fact, are far superior to an HP
dedicated scanner we got at the office earlier this year,
(for almost $700, if I recall correctly). It has an
automatic feed (the main reason for getting it), but the rtf
documents it produces are useless, as I've mentioned in
other messages.

My biggest quarrel with the 940 is that ink is so expensive.
Plus, I have never figured out how to turn off the damn
warning that my ink is low and do I want to order more
online. Even after I've actually order the thing still keeps
popping up.

The other problem I had (for the last two weeks)
coincidentally got solved just this afternoon, after I
posted my initial question -- when I discovered that a cat's
claw was the culprit that was screwing up the feeder.
(Aargh!)

Now that the feeder problem turns out not to be a problem, I
don't think I really need to move to another inkjet. A
decent laser printer, though, still interests me now that I
see how inexpensive they've become.

But thanks for the suggestion.
 
Oh. Does it have fax?

Samsung SCX-4100
No fax
No auto document feeder
Good page yield and cost per page, on par / cheaper than Canon.
Doesn't come with a full toner cart, only a low yield starter one
Doesn't scan to PDF near as i'm aware, that was one cool Lexmark
feature that I believe Canon shares.
Maintance cycle at 60,000 pages paper-feeding and transfer roller and
fuser-unit replacement
 
Bob said:
Personally, I think using compatible cartridges with a
Canon printer is no more expensive, and possibly even less,
than a laser printer.


I guess I have to consider further then. One thing that's
been putting me off about the Dell is shelling out more
money for a 3 pack of cartridges than the printer cost me in
the first place.

The inkjet will probably smear more under a highlighter and,
IMO, the print isn't as crisp as a laser


That inclines me toward a laser, but not a deal breaker.

I guess which one you choose will depend on your needs. I
can tell you that the MP780 I have has been very reliable
and seems to be very well engineered.


Important too. It's been maybe seven years, but I'm still
almost in a state of shell shock from how often my first
printer kept breaking down (well, it was a cheapo, so I
guess I asked for it).

[snip] Also, the duplexing feature has been very handy on
occasion.


I wasn't even aware affordable printers would do that. Good
to know.

How does the Canon do with scanning? As I just mentioned in
reply to another message, I've had one particular problem
with a *dedicated* scanner that bugs the hell out of me.
It's virtually useless for scanning to rtf because in the
resulting document small groupings of text are placed in
text boxes; the text doesn't appear as a continuous stream.
So ... does the Canon create a serviceable rtf document when
it scans?

I'm not familiar with the rtf reference. As for scanning quality, I
don't think it is on par with some of Canon's better stand alone units
but it does pretty good. I like that it saves to the pdf format. Also,
being able to batch scan is quite handy.
 
Bob said:
I don't use odd sized paper (haven't to date, at least), but
I do need to do envelopes. The HP Laserjets that we have at
the office (which are pretty old as these things go, and
were expensive at the time) do envelopes just fine. Do you
know if the envelope problem is specific to particular laser
printers, or is the problem somewhat common among them?

I've had IIp and IIIp neither of which were particularly successful with
the envelopes I tried - to be fair they weren't special laser envelopes,
so the heat from the drum tended to melt the glue a bit.
 
Bob said:
To be specific about the scanner -- one problem I've seen
with a *dedicated* HP scanner -- and it's a problem I can't
live with -- is that the scans, while they look ok, are
almost useless when the scan is set to convert to rtf. In
rtf documents small groupings of text are placed in what are
essentially text boxes. The document, in other words,
doesn't scan out as a continuous stream of text, as in the
original document. Drives me nuts.
Have you tried different OCR software?
 
For example, maybe scan in pdf and then fax the
pdf? Can that or something similar be done? If so, it would
be a PITA but not a big deal since I don't fax all that much.

I rather thought the dell a950 employed a workaround like the a940.
Press the scan button and a window pops up and asks the destination.
But needless to say you can "print" to fax in windows without a problem
if your scan software doesn't support scan to fax. The machines with
fax modems on board have the benifit of faxing plain paper without the
pc being on.
Given the price difference between the 750 and the 780,
though, I suspect I could do without fax if it came down to
it. I use that the least of any of the functions I'm looking
at.

Inbound fax, you can use your own fax modem. Outbound fax you can get
away with using your fax modem as well. But you are interested in OCR
software, i.e. scanning to RTF the mp750 comes with Omnipage SE8 and,
Presto! PageManager, the mp780 comes with the newer version of ScanSoft
Omnipage SE11 and also Presto! PageManager. I can't be 100% sure as
the Omnipage is a downgraded sold to canon version, but the true blue
software does support PDF and RTF.

I can't speak personaly about any of the above as well, I seem to have
misplaced my offical disc. I'm just using the scan driver and the
print driver. I'm a control freak anyway and often get annoyed with
software included.

Now... this is where my information gets vague as I never really used
the dell a940/lexmark x5150. It might have come with Abbyy
FineReader, might have come with Presto! OCR Pro 4.0. I could be very
much mistaken as I've never owned or even used these devices for much
longer then figuring out how to scan pics to e-mail.

I don't know what you were using for specificly converting scans to
PDF/RTF but chances are you can buy it if you really like it and don't
like what comes with what ever you buy. Nothing wrong with being a
control freak and long as you're willing to spend $50, $100, $150,
$300 depending on which software you need.
I don't use odd sized paper (haven't to date, at least), but
I do need to do envelopes. The HP Laserjets that we have at
the office (which are pretty old as these things go, and
were expensive at the time) do envelopes just fine. Do you
know if the envelope problem is specific to particular laser
printers, or is the problem somewhat common among them?

A laser with a U turn path is simply no good for envelopes. The old HP
laserjets you describe might have a pull down door in the rear so
envelopes didn't hit the u-turn. My envelopes on the HP II did curl
slightly but that was the limit to the effect. Someone else described
the fuser pinching the envelope too tightly in some lower end lasers.
The Konica Color laser (too lazy to look up model number) had a complex
process to do envelopes which involved popping the cover and raising to
control arms which I presume was to the fuser. But regardless lasers
heat paper hot enough so that the toner fuses on the paper, and this
can have a negative effect on envelopes esp on the lick glue but
generally the worst thing that happens is it becomes slightly sticky
and needs to be peeled apart. Self adheasive and ones with windows
well, plastic melts and is no fun.

But inkjet companys are big on offering photo paper in sizes as small
as 4"x6", and being designed to do that makes a #10 envelope a snap,
even smaller ones. Someone else said they put 15 in the rear feed on
their canon with no problem. I can only speak personaly for single
envelopes in rear feed. I never tried the lower feed as well, that's a
U turn and doesn't look happy for envelopes. But hey put your envelopes
in the rear, put regular paper in the bottom, either hit the feed
switch on the printer to switch between them or choose it in software.

It's been years since I looked at this, but way back when, I
was told by several people -- and fairly emphatically --
that refills weren't that good. Can't remember if they were
supposed to gum up the printer or whatever, but as a result
I never used them.
From what you say, though, they're just fine in your
experience? No downside?

I have 0 experence on the canon with 3rd party ink. My order for MIS
ink has yet to come in. In my case I bought their advanced kit which
ended up costing a tad more then if I bought the same amount in offical
Canon inktanks at Costco. But the extra cost was refillalbe carts with
plugs on them, which seemed to me a good investment rather than
bothering drilling a hole and plugging them up with hot glue. After
that if I continue buying MIS inks, the cost is about $2.50oz (about
30ml) Given the big black is $12 per 25ml, and each of the 4 colors is
$10 per 13ml there is huge price difference. Others here have thier
own brands they go with. $30 of bulk ink (2oz x 5) = 2.4 big blacks
($28.80) and 4.6 small black cmy ($46.00) = $74.80 or a savings of
$44.80. Much greater savings if one buys more than 2oz at a time.
Prefills seem to average $5 each, which averages to a $25 savings/pop.
One gent said he was very happy buying 50 carts at $1.00 a pop.

The worst thing that can happen in the Canon is a clogged head.
Assuming you can't clean it with windex no drip formuma which I believe
was the reccomended medium the QY6-0049-000 (ip4000 print head, same
engine should fit) is $54.00 on e-bay, but I think it's like $85.00
from canon or other resourses. Even saving as little as $25 a pop
after the 4th refill you break even and anything after is a bonus.
Best to ask around first and find someone else who already has used at
least 5 or 10 refills just to be safe.

There are some generic solutions available localy that I wouldn't try
that average in price to about $1.00/oz. The $2.50 stuff is at least
formulated to be a close match to the OEM ink and presents a lower risk
of odd behavier like clogging, leaking, and perhaps faiding.

But it's up to you. The canon stuff isn't bad and priced at the
reasonable price of only about $2000/gal black, $3000/gal color. Much
better than Epsons and HPs that are often in the $4000 range, or
lexmarks which can easily be $10,000/gal.
 
How well does the scanner work?

The scanner on the SCX 4100 works great!

I've no complaint at all with the scx 4100!
 
My Dell printer (A940) is giving me grief, so I'm
considering getting a new one.

I don't need color; I use it just for documents, so I'm
guessing a laser printer is the right idea. I'd like to be
able to scan, copy & fax as well as print. Since I'm just
starting to look, I don't know what the suitable price range
is, but it would be nice not to have to pay an arm and a
leg.

I'd appreciate recommendations.

Thanks.

I am very happy with my Samsung SCX-4100. It's a fine document
printer. Photos don't look great though. The copier is wonderful.
The PC needn't even be on to make copies.

However, No fax.

As for scanning, the quality is fine, but it suffers from a slow USB
1.1 interface. If you scan a lot you might need something speedier.
 
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