Realplayer

  • Thread starter Thread starter Podz
  • Start date Start date
Harvey Van Sickle said:
On 01 Feb 2004, Podz wrote


It's a good link; the Beeb's radio player is a shell, and needs only a
basic RealPlayear to run.
Click to expand...

But that basic Real Player is the very thing that, in my
experience, has displayed such bad manners (shall I say
"vicious?").

Before installing any product from Real on a system, I
recommend reading up on peoples' experiences with players
from this company and also checking out the alternatives.
FWIW, I'm using ViddiRadioPlayer these days -- an excellent, skinnable
player, which doesn't require your browser to be open. (It's
downloadable from http://www.viddiradioplayer.com/)
Click to expand...

Can ViddiRadioPlayer be used to play Real streams without
having Real files installed? If so, for me, it bears looking
into. If not, it can take a hike. Which is it?

And, how are Viddi's manners? For example, does Viddi
advertise at you, does Viddi spy on you, is Viddi a safe
installation or can you only remove it from your system by
reformatting your hard disk (kind of like curing a head cold
by replacing your head). Non-sophisticated computer users
can get themselves in a hell of a lot of trouble if they
unknowlingly install nasty software, so we can do them a
favor by guiding them straight.

Richard
 
On 02 Feb 2004, Richard Steinfeld wrote
But that basic Real Player is the very thing that, in my
experience, has displayed such bad manners (shall I say
"vicious?").

Before installing any product from Real on a system, I
recommend reading up on peoples' experiences with players
from this company and also checking out the alternatives.

Can ViddiRadioPlayer be used to play Real streams without
having Real files installed? If so, for me, it bears looking
into. If not, it can take a hike. Which is it?
Click to expand...

It needs RealPlayer, as is made clear by the link which I posted.
Its advantage, for me, is that it doesn't *also* need the browser open.

You *did* read the link, didn't you?
And, how are Viddi's manners?
Click to expand...

According to the posts I've read in here -- this is where I came across
it -- impeccable. I recommend following the link -- I guess you didn't
bother opening it -- and reading what's there; if you're suspicious,
doing your homework in this and other groups. That's how one
approaches these things.
For example, does Viddi
advertise at you,
Click to expand...

Nope -- but why do you expect me to do your homework for you? Read up
on it if you're remotely interested in it.
does Viddi spy on you,
Click to expand...

Not as far as I can tell -- no positives on Ad-Aware, Spybot S&D, or
other registry monitors I've found.

Again, you're a big boy -- do some homewowrk.
is Viddi a safe installation or can you only remove it from your
system by reformatting your hard disk (kind of like curing a head
cold by replacing your head).
Click to expand...

I -- and others -- wouldn't be recommending it in here if it was. Some
of us *do* pay attention to what we install.
Non-sophisticated computer users
can get themselves in a hell of a lot of trouble if they
unknowlingly install nasty software, so we can do them a
favor by guiding them straight.
Click to expand...

Tell me preciselly: in what way does posting a link in
alt.comp.freeware to a free program -- and stating that I've found the
program to be useful and that it might be worth looking more closely at
-- somehow not qualify as "guiding them straight"?

Doing further research before sticking stuff on your computer is kind
of a presupposition in here.
 
It needs RealPlayer, as is made clear by the link which I posted.
Its advantage, for me, is that it doesn't *also* need the browser open.

You *did* read the link, didn't you?
Click to expand...

Harvey, I asked -you-. Sorry if I didn't follow your
personal protocol. People do ask questions here directly,
don't they? And the issues that I raised are serious.
According to the posts I've read in here -- this is where I came across
it -- impeccable. I recommend following the link -- I guess you didn't
bother opening it -- and reading what's there; if you're suspicious,
doing your homework in this and other groups. That's how one
approaches these things.
Click to expand...

I guess that I'm just not your obedient student. Sorry.
Nope -- but why do you expect me to do your homework for you? Read up
on it if you're remotely interested in it.
Click to expand...

So sorry that you took umbrage, Harvey. I didn't realize
that "homework" is a prerequisite of asking you a question.
Please accept my
apology for disturbing your serenity and causing you the
effort that it took to condescend.
Not as far as I can tell -- no positives on Ad-Aware, Spybot S&D, or
other registry monitors I've found.
Click to expand...

Wow. An answer!
Again, you're a big boy -- do some homewowrk.
Click to expand...

Thank you for putting me in my place. Whatever would I do
without your stern guidance and scolding?

I -- and others -- wouldn't be recommending it in here if it was. Some
of us *do* pay attention to what we install.
Click to expand...

And, Harvey, exactly why are you recommending that people
install Real Player on their systems?

Harv, ..."you're a big boy -- do some homewowrk." You seem
to not understand what installing Real products does to a
user's computer. I'm impressed by your lack of
comprehension, your lack of knowledge, your lack of
experience, and your determined righteousness.

You can begin by reading my post earlier in this newsgroup
that states the monitored changes I logged during a
Real installation. You could, if you were inclined to follow
your own advice and perform simple research, find the heady
stench of Real experiences posted on the internet. You can
do this, can't you? I mean, I assume that you are more
interested in determining the truth than you are in passing
judgment from the lofty heights of your altitude. Surely,
you would not want people to think that you were arrogant,
would you Harvey?
Tell me preciselly: in what way does posting a link in
alt.comp.freeware to a free program -- and stating that I've found the
program to be useful and that it might be worth looking more closely at
-- somehow not qualify as "guiding them straight"?
Click to expand...

Again, Harvey, you don't seem to know Jack about how Real
player rapes a user's computer. How about the system
degredation that goes along with this installation?

And yet you have recommended
this route to othes here. And you attack a person with
experience who advises caution regarding well-known malware.
Uh, the right hand does not seem to be communicating with
the left hand.
Doing further research before sticking stuff on your computer is kind
of a presupposition in here.
Click to expand...

Now, my dear Harvey, please take your own advice before
venting your spleen here.
Oh, and why not attend charm school while you're at it!

Richard
 
On 01 Feb 2004, Podz wrote


It's a good link; the Beeb's radio player is a shell, and needs only a
basic RealPlayear to run.

FWIW, I'm using ViddiRadioPlayer these days -- an excellent, skinnable
player, which doesn't require your browser to be open. (It's
downloadable from http://www.viddiradioplayer.com/)
Click to expand...

Hey Harvey,

ViddiRadioPlayer needs realone to play realmedia. That makes it a crappy
'replacement' to... realone.

The best alternative is this player:

Media Player Classic (this is *not* media player 6.4)
http://www.divx-digest.com/software/media_player_classic.html

After installing these codecs it'll play most realmedia *without*
realone:

Real Alternative
http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail.php3?fid=1054136293

Ciao!
 
On 04 Feb 2004, Jay Jay wrote
Snip re: BBC radio player
Hey Harvey,
Click to expand...
ViddiRadioPlayer needs realone to play realmedia. That makes it a
crappy 'replacement' to... realone.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know that. But I didn't suggest it as a "replacement" for
Realplayer -- just as a replacement of the Beeb's *radio player* which
the OP had mentioned, and which also needs realplayer to work.

That was the context of the discussion; a RP replacement is another
question entirely.

The best alternative is this player:
Click to expand...
Media Player Classic (this is *not* media player 6.4)
http://www.divx-digest.com/software/media_player_classic.html
Click to expand...
After installing these codecs it'll play most realmedia *without*
realone:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the pointer, but I've used Media Player Classic as my
default for a while now.

But MMPC is a media player, *not* a radio player. As far as I can
tell, to have it play streamed radio, you have to have the browser open
and operate through that.

Do you know of an equivalent, free, non-Real-based *radio* player --
one that doesn't need to operate through a browser?

(For what it's worth, the exchanges in the Viddi forums suggest that
Version 2 will aim to avoid RP entirely; whether that happens, or
whether it stays free when it does -- well, we'll see....)
 
|
| Thanks for the pointer, but I've used Media Player Classic as
my
| default for a while now.
|
| But MMPC is a media player, *not* a radio player. As far as I
can
| tell, to have it play streamed radio, you have to have the
browser open
| and operate through that.
|

As I type this, I am listening to Radio New Zealand streaming
live, simulcasting on-the-air via the web, through Media Player
Classic.
The browser, Internet Explorer, is closed.


| Do you know of an equivalent, free, non-Real-based *radio*
player --
| one that doesn't need to operate through a browser?
|

You have that equivalent already, Harvey. It is named "Media
Player Classic."

What streams over the internet is not *radio.* What you want is
an audio stream, a stream that's in real time of a source that's
"right now." The media player doesn't care whether that audio
stream is canned or live. As far as it is concerned, it is
playing a stream. If that stream is a simulcast of a radio
broadcast, you will be hearing a radio program. So, MPC is indeed
a "radio player" when it is playing the sound of a live radio
broadcast. I can't believe that this isn't what you want.

Audio content on the internet is never broadcast as a radio
signal through a "pipe." There is no carrier wave modulated by
audio: that's traditional analog. The source may be a radio
station or a network, but the technology on the internet is any
one of a few digital streaming technologies.

Here's the drill.
1. Initially, you have to use your browser to locate a content
source. The connection must be established and the stream engaged
from the host site. If Real Alternative has been set to be the
default player for "Real Media File" (its own nomenclature), Real
Alternative will pick up the stream, load its own appropriate
..dll file to handle it, and you're listening. Once it is playing,
you can go ahead and close the browser: the content source and
the player are now locked onto each other and the browser is
irrelevant (out of the loop).

2. Once it is playing, add that streaming source to Media Player
Classic's "Favorites" list to do what you want.

3. Media Player Classic may be loaded on its own at any time
after that. You my select your source within MPC: you'll find it
on a new menu of "Favorites." Click on the source name and MPC
will connect on its own and begin playing the content.

That's it: you are listening to your program and you never opened
your browser.

Let me add some additional insight:
MPC has been crafted by a lone individual, unlike Real Player,
which is an extremely complicated corporate product that consumes
massive amounts of resources. MPC is quite capable, but is not as
slick as jetAudio, the other Real alternative that I've used
successfully. This is understandable. It has a small, unobtrusive
interface. I like that. MPC is fairly frugal. Note that MPC's
programmer's first language is not English.

So, there's a little strangeness about how he's implemented his
file associations. For example, instead of letting you select the
specific file type that's used in the case I mentioned, ".ram,"
he just lists this in the pick list as a "Real Media File." And,
at least in my version of MPC, he's included this stream type
under the category of _video_ files. Thus, you get to tinker a
bit before his sytem "takes" the default for this streaming type.

Having to fuss with the player is a small price to pay indeed,
for the freedom from the incredible system issues around Real
Networks' products.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------
I'm sure that you now comprehend what I've written.

Last time around, I suggested that you read my earlier post
listing two installation statistics that I logged when installing
Real Player. I trust that by now, you've done that and have been
able to give some thought as to why you've found some objections
here over anyone recommending the use of Real Player, whether
alone or with an additional helper. It is of special significance
that you take your own advice, Harvey, (Remember: "You're a big
boy, do your homework.") before attacking other people in a
newsgroup who may have deeper knowledge and experience, people
who may indeed have done their research in much greater depth
than yourself. Or claiming, emphatically, that "MMPC is a media
player, *not* a radio player," when you just haven't tested this
out properly.

I have kept tabs on the "phoning" habits of both of these
alternative players. Although I use Spybot S&D, Ad Alert, and The
Proxomitron right now, I'm also keeping track of connections with
a firewall that's set to immediately display connections that
aren't explicitly approved. Thus, with these media players, this
particular firewall will always show me where they're going. I've
found both of these alternative players to be well-mannered. They
do phone the content provider and load modules (from their own
stashes on my machine). The content providers don't always
maintain their own "content warehouse" on site; sometimes it
comes from a contracted content provision service. Thus, it can
appear that the player is phoning home when it is, in fact, just
phoning the warehouse for the program and/or doing a handshake.

Note that just because both of these programs are well-mannered
now does not mean that they will still be respectful of users in
the future.

Richard
 
Richard Steinfeld said:
1. Initially, you have to use your browser to locate a content
source. The connection must be established and the stream engaged
from the host site. If Real Alternative has been set to be the
default player for "Real Media File" (its own nomenclature), Real
Alternative will pick up the stream, load its own appropriate
.dll file to handle it, and you're listening. Once it is playing,
you can go ahead and close the browser: the content source and
the player are now locked onto each other and the browser is
irrelevant (out of the loop).
Click to expand...

It works just like this with Winamp and Shoutcast radio stations too.
You use your web browser to select the radio channel from shoutcasts lists,
winamp starts and you can close the browser.

Mark the station as a bookmark in winamp so you can start it without the
web browser.

I wonder how many stations there are to choose from in the different
formats? Are there a lot of stations in the Real format?

Where on the web do you go to find Real stations, and other formats too, if
you know any?
I would like to compare with the number of channels I get in the lists at
shoutcast.com and see if it would be sensible to install MPC or RA.
 
On 04 Feb 2004, Richard Steinfeld wrote
As I type this, I am listening to Radio New Zealand streaming
live, simulcasting on-the-air via the web, through Media Player
Classic.
The browser, Internet Explorer, is closed.



You have that equivalent already, Harvey. It is named "Media
Player Classic."

What streams over the internet is not *radio.* What you want is
an audio stream, a stream that's in real time of a source that's
"right now." The media player doesn't care whether that audio
stream is canned or live. As far as it is concerned, it is
playing a stream. If that stream is a simulcast of a radio
broadcast, you will be hearing a radio program. So, MPC is indeed
a "radio player" when it is playing the sound of a live radio
broadcast. I can't believe that this isn't what you want.

Audio content on the internet is never broadcast as a radio
signal through a "pipe." There is no carrier wave modulated by
audio: that's traditional analog. The source may be a radio
station or a network, but the technology on the internet is any
one of a few digital streaming technologies.

Here's the drill.
1. Initially, you have to use your browser to locate a content
source. The connection must be established and the stream engaged
from the host site. If Real Alternative has been set to be the
default player for "Real Media File" (its own nomenclature), Real
Alternative will pick up the stream, load its own appropriate
.dll file to handle it, and you're listening. Once it is playing,
you can go ahead and close the browser: the content source and
the player are now locked onto each other and the browser is
irrelevant (out of the loop).

2. Once it is playing, add that streaming source to Media Player
Classic's "Favorites" list to do what you want.

3. Media Player Classic may be loaded on its own at any time
after that. You my select your source within MPC: you'll find it
on a new menu of "Favorites." Click on the source name and MPC
will connect on its own and begin playing the content.

That's it: you are listening to your program and you never opened
your browser.

Let me add some additional insight:
MPC has been crafted by a lone individual, unlike Real Player,
which is an extremely complicated corporate product that consumes
massive amounts of resources. MPC is quite capable, but is not as
slick as jetAudio, the other Real alternative that I've used
Click to expand...
 
On 04 Feb 2004, Harvey Van Sickle wrote

-apologies for the blank message-

(I read the message but didn't intend to bother replying further; I've
tried cancelling my erroneous post, but that of course doesn't always
work.)
 
Roger Johansson wrote:
|
|| 1. Initially, you have to use your browser to locate a content
|| source. The connection must be established and the stream
|| engaged from the host site. If Real Alternative has been set
|| to be the default player for "Real Media File" (its own
|| nomenclature), Real Alternative will pick up the stream, load
|| its own appropriate .dll file to handle it, and you're
|| listening. Once it is playing, you can go ahead and close the
|| browser: the content source and the player are now locked
|| onto each other and the browser is irrelevant (out of the
|| loop).
|
| It works just like this with Winamp and Shoutcast radio
| stations too.
| You use your web browser to select the radio channel from
| shoutcasts lists, winamp starts and you can close the browser.
|
| Mark the station as a bookmark in winamp so you can start it
| without the web browser.
|

Except that as of my last look, Winamp and Shoutcast don't play
Real streams. The only players that do are the two that I
mentioned, unless something new has emerged that I don't know.
One thing I'll mention: Winamp is now the property of AOL. And in
my brain, anything from AOL is to be avoided, especially after I
once had to reformat my hard disk due to the ravages caused by
innocently clicking on the Netscape (another AOL product) icon on
the screen of a brand new computer. Shucks. Too bad. It was
decent. Some programs are best avoided no matter how enticing.
AOL has a stinky legacy of subscriber privacy violation and
abusive performance (you pay them a premium price for performance
that's degraded by advertising downloads). That's exactly my
feeling about Real Player, except multipied by 100.

| I wonder how many stations there are to choose from in the
| different formats? Are there a lot of stations in the Real
| format?
|

Lots! Real certainly seems to be the de-facto world standard for
streaming audio, providing that it isn't music. I've never heard
music sound anything other than dreadful in this medium.

| Where on the web do you go to find Real stations, and other
| formats too, if you know any?
| I would like to compare with the number of channels I get in
| the lists at shoutcast.com and see if it would be sensible to
| install MPC or RA.

I'm not sure how you go about finding stations that serve Real
streams. The ones I've put in my Windows "Favorites" are stations
that I already know from live radio here in the SF Bay Area and
stations I know from other places, such as New York. I'll give
you a few right here off the top of my head:

British Broadcasting Corporation
WBEZ (Chicago)
WNYC (New York)
KQED (San Francisco)
WAMU (Washington DC)
Pacifica Foundation network programs, such as Democracy Now.
WBUR (Boston. All locally-produced shows except for Car Talk. Car
Talk, although produced at WBUR, is not streamed there. One show,
the latest one, is available on their own obnoxiously
over-the-top commercial web site. Car Talk is actually a joint
commercial venture between the public station and the private
content originators: the Maliozi Brothers: if you don't know it,
it is the funniest show on the radio).
Your Call (call-in show produced by Working Assets)
Additional stations offer live simulcast streams only. This is
usually because they play content that they don't own. The above
sources carry "when you want" streams of prior shows. Some also
have extensive archives on their web sites, too.

If you're sick of getting your news and commentary from bellowing
Rush Limbaugh extremists and Fox fictional hypotainment, you will
get a refreshing bracer of enlightened perspective from the
sources I've listed. The way that I listen to Real streams is to
save them directly to tape from the computer; then I listen to
them while doing chores.

Note that MPC is a player that uses Real Alternative. RA is
essentially a plug in for MPC: a set of files that are required
to for MPC to decode Real. The second player is jetAudio, which
is slicker. I expect that if it doesn't already contain it,
jetAudio intends to make their money as one of the competitors in
the new field of "digital rights management." I'm worried that
DRM will be used to invade privacy and that the technology will
harm computer performance. DRM is already built into the late
versions of Windows Media Player, so chances are that you already
have it. Windows Media Player now transmits three unique
identifiers just for Roger Johansson's own computer. These three
identifiers have their own registry entries. Although I detest
the concept of DRM, I do feel that it is essential that
performers be compensated for the work that they do for us: it is
a hard life, harder when people are ripping off your labors.

Real was designed to prevent you from storing the files on your
computer. If you "save" something, what's being saved is only a
link. The concept is that you download the stream from the
content provider's site, but in addition, Real Player contacts
its own site to "serve" you with advertising. You can prevent
Real from messing around with you this way, and the other two
players don't seem to have any inclination to do this (yet).
However, Real will attempt often to reset itself to "serve" you.
Real is an advertising machine.

Again, my experience has been that once Real Player has been
installed on a computer, it is next to impossible to remove it.
I'll never again make the mistake of installing anything from
Real Networks again.

So, that's the long and short.

Richard
 
Some of your note writing has done some good!!

" Why has WNYC chosen to use Windows Media Player instead of MP3 or Real
Audio for the live stream?
A number of years ago, a collective of public radio stations made the
decision to stream in Windows Media format after considering a number of
factors including quality, cost and the wide distribution of the Windows
Media Player software. But a lot has changed since then and early in 2004,
WNYC will expand our internet streaming to include the increasingly popular
MP3 format, which can be played in many different players including Real
Player, Quicktime Player, Apple iTunes and WinAmp. "

Boggie
 
| Real codecs here http://www.freewebs.com/coandco/downloads/

You are referring to a fileset named "RealAtLast," which is
installed onto a user's system and then can be used with
Irfanview.

So far, a set of codec files that perform similarly to this one
has revealed itself to accumulate a spy data report of the user's
activities. In the file set named "Real Alternative," the file is
found within the Real Alternative files directory with the name
"cookies.txt."

Please look for this file on your system in the location I
mentioned (_not_ in the legitimate directory Windows\Cookies\).
Please examine this file (you can use notepad or Wordpad) and let
us know what you found.

Thanks.

Richard
 
It works just like this with Winamp and Shoutcast radio stations too.
You use your web browser to select the radio channel from shoutcasts lists,
winamp starts and you can close the browser.

Mark the station as a bookmark in winamp so you can start it without the
web browser.

I wonder how many stations there are to choose from in the different
formats? Are there a lot of stations in the Real format?

Where on the web do you go to find Real stations, and other formats too, if
you know any?
I would like to compare with the number of channels I get in the lists at
shoutcast.com and see if it would be sensible to install MPC or RA.
Click to expand...

Try this useful link for a list of stations around the world,
including a searchable index for streaming audio:

http://www.radio-locator.com/
 
Nobody said:
Try this useful link for a list of stations around the world,
including a searchable index for streaming audio:

http://www.radio-locator.com/
Click to expand...

Great resource, but seems a bit confused about the purpose of the list.
A lot of non-streaming stations mixed in where they shouldn't be.
Talking about updating the search system, so it might get better.
 
Agreed, but it's actually a list of radio stations "on the web"...
i,e, those that have become known as having web sites. It grew to
include those that are "streaming". Problem is, stations don't advise
as to their status... it's updated only by observation by users.

But I think it's still superior to focussed lists such as Shoutcast et
al.

The major reason for the list is to help "DXers". They're a branch of
the ham/amateur community... DX being a radio amateur abbreviation for
"long distance".
 
Nobody said:
The major reason for the list is to help "DXers". They're a branch of
the ham/amateur community... DX being a radio amateur abbreviation for
"long distance".
Click to expand...

Yes, I thought about a radio amateur book when I saw this list.
The book had a name like World Radio Stations, or in later years, World
radio and tv channels. It came out every year with updated facts and most
DX listeners needed a copy of that book.

I have a background in electronics and needed the technical data so I
bought that book a couple of times.

If they fix the search function on that site so it works well, and if the
list grows and is updated, it will be very useful.
 
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