Re: pluging into USB port crashing system

  • Thread starter Thread starter SC Tom
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SC Tom

Allen Drake said:
When I even get close to plugging anything into either of my front
panel USB ports the system crashes and reboots. When it boots this
time the report says there is no CPU present. I double checked to make
sure the cable is plugged in correctly and tried another set of pins
on motherboard, there are three, but the result is the same. I have
been searching and find others claiming a underpowered PSU is to blame
but I have a Termaltake 750 which is new. This is a newly build system
and has no other problems. I am using an M4A87TD/US3 board with AMD
Phenom and Supertalent RAM.

If anyone has any ideas I would appreciate the help.

Thanks.

Al.
Click to expand...

It's possible you have a faulty PS. Do you by chance have a spare you could use temporarily? (I know, not exactly a
closet shelf item.) Is it possible that the pinout is different from the previous MB (had that happen to me going from
one ASUS MB to another)? If you have the manual for your MB (or check it out online), you can compare them.

Is this a new problem, or did it manifest itself right after the build was completed? And by "newly build", does that
include the case and all?
 
SC Tom said:
It's possible you have a faulty PS. Do you by chance have a spare you could use temporarily? (I know, not exactly a
closet shelf item.) Is it possible that the pinout is different from the previous MB (had that happen to me going from
one ASUS MB to another)? If you have the manual for your MB (or check it out online), you can compare them.

Is this a new problem, or did it manifest itself right after the build was completed? And by "newly build", does that
include the case and all?
Click to expand...

Another thing to check is your BIOS settings. Make sure Legacy support is either Auto or Enabled.
 
Allen said:
I do have other PSUs so I will use another one just to make sure. I
did check it with a Coolmax LCD Power Supply tester PS-228 and it
checked out fine. I will install another this weekend.

Thanks for the response.
Al.
Click to expand...

How do you know the front panel wiring is correct ?

Some older Antec computer cases, have wiring errors in the
front panel harness. I've never found one which involved
"power reversal". They never mixed up VCC and GND, which
could instantly ruin a plugged in device. But they have
mixed up the data pins. Perhaps the problem is the
wiring.

The way I was able to determine the nature of the errors, was
by buzzing out the wiring with a multimeter set to ohms. Using a
needle fitted to one multimeter probe, I picked up the inside
of the front panel connector contact with that probe, then checked
the other end of the cable assembly with the other meter probe. And
verified that the labels matched - that a D+ goes to the D+ pin and
so on.

If a computer resets, it can be due to an overload on +5VSB. But
you'd expect the problem to "stay put", as long as the
offender was still plugged in. If it crashes and successfully
reboots, while the device is plugged into the front, it probably
isn't a wiring problem as such. If there was a wiring problem,
it might stay turned off (each time the power would come back
on, the short would turn it off again etc).

Paul
 
Allen Drake said:
I did check the pin out and actually moved the cable to another
position on the board. I am getting a similar reaction by using the
rear ports but in that case the system simply locks up. I have a USB3
external drive attached which I will remove and try more debugging
later tonight.

I am not sure if this just started or not. I have several builds
going at one time and sometimes I lose focus. That and the 12 hour
days at my day job wears me down a bit. :)
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, I remember those days all too well. When I worked at a Ford assembly plant back in the mid 70s, we were on an
80 hour work week for three months. My kids forgot my name and my wife found someone else (although she sure loved that
40 hours of overtime paycheck). We worked from 3PM to 3:30AM M-Sat, and 3-11:30PM on Sunday. After they got the number
of vehicles they wanted in storage, they laid off everyone, some for up to two years. Not a good time in southeastern
Michigan.

But I digress. Keep us posted on your PC. The USB3 ports are only in the back, on the MB, aren't they? The front panel
ports are USB2 IIRC from glancing through the manual for your MB.
 
Allen Drake said:
I love work so I will take the OT any time I can get it. I have been
in the work force since the 60s have done all shifts. I like the grave
yard myself but now am confined to 6 AM to 6PM and 8 hrs on Saturdays.
My last job I got one Sunday off a month. Defense industry and NASA
but that has been cut back somewhat too.



Yes the USB 3 is on the back but the Antec Nine Hundred Two case has
a USB 3 and two USB 2 posts on the top front. I think I will get out
the multi meter now and see what I can find. I'll let you know what
happens.
Click to expand...

The 3 plug-ins for USB78, 1112, and 910 are allUSB2.0, if I'm reading the manual right. So if the 3.0 on the case is
plugged into any of them, that may be where your problem lies. I don't know if the pin-outs are different between USB2.0
and 3.0, but I wouldn't think so. There's no pin-out difference between 1.0 and 2.0, IIRC. (Just guessing here :-) )
 
Allen Drake said:
<<snip>>
I found the problem. It was a bad ground. I connected a wire with
alligator clips on each end to the connector on the front to a part of
the case that was not painted. It was crude as the small clip was
connecting to the small rim of the outer edge of the connector. It
barely held on while I looked for a place to connect the other end to
and took a chance but it worked. Then I noticed a wire connecting
underneath the top next to the large fan. It was a bit loose so I
tightened it and so that must have been the real problem. I replaced
it with a slightly longer screw and tightened it so it will hold. It
seems that little screw is just not long enough to stay tight. I
removed the alligator clip wire and all seems well. Now both the front
and rear USB posts work as intended.
Click to expand...

Great! At least it was something simple and didn't involve anything other than lost time.
Good on you for finding it as soon as you did :-)
 
The 3 plug-ins for USB78, 1112, and 910 are allUSB2.0, if I'm reading the manual right. So if the 3.0 on the case is
plugged into any of them, that may be where your problem lies. I don't know if the pin-outs are different between USB2.0
and 3.0, but I wouldn't think so. There's no pin-out difference between 1.0 and 2.0, IIRC. (Just guessing here :-) )
Click to expand...

USB 3.0 has five extra pins compared to previous versions, see:

http://www.usb3.com/usb3-info.html
 
I found the problem. It was a bad ground. I connected a wire with
alligator clips on each end to the connector on the front to a part of
the case that was not painted. It was crude as the small clip was
connecting to the small rim of the outer edge of the connector. It
barely held on while I looked for a place to connect the other end to
and took a chance but it worked. Then I noticed a wire connecting
underneath the top next to the large fan. It was a bit loose so I
tightened it and so that must have been the real problem. I replaced
it with a slightly longer screw and tightened it so it will hold. It
seems that little screw is just not long enough to stay tight. I
removed the alligator clip wire and all seems well. Now both the front
and rear USB posts work as intended.
Click to expand...

That is weird, for a faulted ground connect to show up as a USB
error. When I've had subsequent problems after assembling a system, I
may rebuild it either in two ways: a) breadboarded, everything on
plastic and connected for powering up together, or b) totally taken
down, just for the MB and PS to be meticulously secured into the case,
with care in watching for how it's powering up, one by one, then as
any extra component are also added. Really ticks me off if I can't
get it up and finally right, like the 775 MB/CPU Newegg sent me last
time on a special sale. On the box it was shipped, in Newegg's big
letters, the sticker says: You may have gotten quite a deal !! . . .A
big deal, yep, up half the night tearing apart other systems to try
and find a temporary fix for a working-parts combo, giving up, calling
Newegg the next morning, and him telling me they're only paying half
shipping if I return it?

Oh, yea - he did it offer it to me again, at one over again and half
off. . . .Be like a $75 MB for $35 on sale, he's finally offering at
$17 if I'll just take it and get it out of his hair. Thanks, I said.
Only, I just can't take the excitement of another sales frenzy, no
more and no thanks.

Used to love their open-box sales, but tend these days to look twice
for reputable manufacturers and reviews within reasonable pricing on
new sealed equipment.
 
Even the cables are different. I wonder why make different cables if
the USB3 is downward compatible.
Click to expand...

Have a look at the URL above, it explains it all. USB3.0 has 9
conductors while earlier versions have 4. You can fit an earlier cable
into a USB3.0 socket but you can't fit a USB3.0 plug into an earlier
socket.
 
Allen said:
Even the cables are different. I wonder why make different cables if
the USB3 is downward compatible.
Click to expand...

The USB3 socket has two sections. A high speed section and a low
speed section.

The USB1.1 or USB2 connector, fits into the low speed section of the USB3 socket.

If a USB3 peripheral is plugged in, then it has access to the high speed interface.

The reason it was done that way, is because they needed two diff pairs, to
do a nice interface similar to how SATA and PCI Express work. They wanted
to be competitive with those standards, and as time passes, USB3 will be
able to evolve to match the speeds of the other standards.

One thing that differs on USB3, compared to SATA and PCI Express, is the USB3
interconnect cabling can be longer. And that causes some difference in what
you can safely do, when designing a standard for higher speeds.

http://www.usb3.com/

"One thing to note is that operating simultaneously in SuperSpeed and
Hi-Speed is not allowed. It is an either or scenario."

So of the nine signals, they're not using all of them at exactly the
same time. That page also mentions the names of the signals.

VBUS \
D- \___ Traditional USB2 set of pins, includes bus power
D+ /
GND /
RX- \
RX+ \
GND_Drain \___ Full duplex USB3 interface
TX- /
TX+ /
Shield <--- outer shield

The diagram for that, is easier to see here.

http://www.interfacebus.com/usb-cable-diagram-30.html

Paul
 
Lately I have been putting my systems together on a Top Deck Tech
Stationhttp://www.amazon.com/Deck-Tech-Station-Open-Air-Standard/dp/B001JYRZ54
Click to expand...

How about that. . .first I've seen the likes on one of those. Reminds
me of my $300 coffee grinder with the top casings removed for easy
burr adjustments. Same applies to both - watch where you're putting
that drink, bub.
but this one obviously escaped me as the problem was the case itself.
For once I am thankful I couldn't figure out how to get the front off
or I may never have found that loose screw. I am sort of used to those
kind of things remembering those HeathKit ham radio days of the early
60s :)

I have not fallen for any of those "deals" you mentioned. I just
don't feel at my age I have that much time to do any more screwing
around then I already do and don't mind disposing of some hard earned
money when I have fewer gray matter than I do green.
Click to expand...

Yea, I hear you. (I looked up your ASUS MB before that first post,
too - it has some nice reviews along King Overclocker/Tweaker). Last
look/see I went through was Pentium D duos and core 2s, various new
and used combos;- got frustrating when I realized I liked a (last of
the semi-new, being 775 sockets are getting sparser) Intel 45-micron
dual core best, over the Celeron lines, on present production lines.
 
SC Tom said:
"Allen Drake" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> When I even get close to plugging anything into either of my front
> panel USB ports the system crashes and reboots. When it boots this
> time the report says there is no CPU present. I double checked to make
> sure the cable is plugged in correctly and tried another set of pins
> on motherboard, there are three, but the result is the same. I have
> been searching and find others claiming a underpowered PSU is to blame
> but I have a Termaltake 750 which is new. This is a newly build system
> and has no other problems. I am using an M4A87TD/US3 board with AMD
> Phenom and Supertalent RAM.
>
> If anyone has any ideas I would appreciate the help.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Al.

It's possible you have a faulty PS. Do you by chance have a spare you could use temporarily? (I know, not exactly a
closet shelf item.) Is it possible that the pinout is different from the previous MB (had that happen to me going from
one ASUS MB to another)? If you have the manual for your MB (or check it out online), you can compare them.

Is this a new problem, or did it manifest itself right after the build was completed? And by "newly build", does that
include the case and all?
--
SC Tom
Click to expand...

Had a similar USB port problem (crashing the system but no additional affects) recently and surmised it might be due to static electricity. I took some copper braid, connected one end to a chassis screw, then grounded the metal shield of the USB device before plugging it in. Seems to solved the problem.
 
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