Raw scans with LS-2000

[cubilcle281]

Hi all,

Is there any way to get a raw scan out of an LS-2000 using Nikon Scan?
What I would ideally like is a 12-bit RGBI scan so that I can go back
later & do levels adjustments, plus decide on whether ICE is really
necessary (some of my scans are kodachrome, and while I am not normally
getting horrible artifacts they do occasionally pop up).

I am assuming that as soon as 12-bit output is selected, the color
adjustments are not used and I am just seeing the raw scanner output
(is this correct?), but I have not worked out a way to do ICE
post-scan.

I am told that Vuescan can do this, but I am reluctant to try it as I
have heard a few reports on this group along the lines of 'Vuescan
broke my LS-2000'. Besides, I am not sure whether it's IR/scratch
processing would be as good as ICE. Anyone care to comment?


Thanks

 

[Philip Homburg]

Is there any way to get a raw scan out of an LS-2000 using Nikon Scan?
What I would ideally like is a 12-bit RGBI scan so that I can go back
later & do levels adjustments, plus decide on whether ICE is really
necessary (some of my scans are kodachrome, and while I am not normally
getting horrible artifacts they do occasionally pop up).

There a couple of things you have to get right when scanning:
- focus
- analog gain
- degree of multi-sample

For normal color slides and negatives it is easy: turn on ICE. Getting the
focus and especially, the analog gain right is much more important.
Without ICE scans are slightly sharper, but if you need sharper scans,
it is better get a newer scanner.

I am assuming that as soon as 12-bit output is selected, the color
adjustments are not used and I am just seeing the raw scanner output
(is this correct?), but I have not worked out a way to do ICE
post-scan.

Color adjustments should be set to neutral and/or disabled. I don't think
anything is disabled automatically when you select 12-bit scans.

I am told that Vuescan can do this, but I am reluctant to try it as I
have heard a few reports on this group along the lines of 'Vuescan
broke my LS-2000'.

Do you have the message IDs of the articles?

A collegue of mine uses Vuescan with an LS-30, which is basically the same
hardware as the LS-2000. He is quite happy with the results.

I am not sure whether it's IR/scratch
processing would be as good as ICE. Anyone care to comment?

Nikon scanners don't really like kodachrome for some reason. You have to
verify for yourself that Vuescan gives the right results.

I guess that if you are reluctant to use Vuescan, scanning your kodachromes
with and without ICE is the easiest solution.

 

[Don]

Is there any way to get a raw scan out of an LS-2000 using Nikon Scan?
What I would ideally like is a 12-bit RGBI scan so that I can go back
later & do levels adjustments, plus decide on whether ICE is really
necessary (some of my scans are kodachrome, and while I am not normally
getting horrible artifacts they do occasionally pop up).

I've spent a couple of years wrestling with Kodachromes (it's all done
now). I found that well exposed Kodachromes always produce artifacts
with ICE (if you look closely enough) so I turned it off. However, on
(very) overexposed Kodachromes ICE works perfectly because all the
silver has been washed out of the film.

I am assuming that as soon as 12-bit output is selected, the color
adjustments are not used and I am just seeing the raw scanner output
(is this correct?), but I have not worked out a way to do ICE
post-scan.

You can't. NikonScan will not extract the "I" part in RGBI because ICE
is applied before the image is saved so you never get to see the
infrared component. It wouldn't do you much good anyway because
NikonScan cannot apply it after the scan. It's a marketing thing
because ICE was written by an independent company.

However, you can scan raw by turning off everything else. Simply click
in the toolbox in the upper left corner to turn off all the editing
(the checkmark turns into a cross).

The only settings you should use are focus, exposure and possibly ICE.

Theoretically, "raw" also means scanning in linear gamma (1.0) but
many people (me included) don't go that far.

I am told that Vuescan can do this, but I am reluctant to try it as I
have heard a few reports on this group along the lines of 'Vuescan
broke my LS-2000'. Besides, I am not sure whether it's IR/scratch
processing would be as good as ICE. Anyone care to comment?

I have not heard that one but Vuescan is known to be notoriously buggy
and unreliable. It's OK for casual use (e.g. a highly compressed web
JPG) but not if one cares about data integrity.

However, Vuescan can extract the infrared component (assuming it does
so correctly which is a big "if", taking appalling Vuescan track
record into consideration). But the underlying problem is Vuescan's IR
cleaning is vastly inferior. It's basically totally useless and is not
even in the same ballpark as ICE.

Don.

 

[Don]

Nikon scanners don't really like kodachrome for some reason.

It's the light source. Three separate LEDs result in superior color
purity and color separation but the "down side" is that one can see
all the "warts" in the original image. In case of Kodachrome the
"wart" is its unique characteristic curve.

Having said that, there is no excuse for Nikon not to have taken care
of this. I believe on LS2000 the Kodachrome mode is unavailable. But
even when it's available the Kodachrome mode just doesn't go nearly
far enough. Of course, there's no one single Kodachrome because it
changed dramatically over the years, but a company like Nikon should
have certainly provided a solution.

Don.

 

[Bart van der Wolf]

SNIP
Both VueScan and Silverfast offer a RAW saving possibility. I'm not
sure if Silverfast saves the IR channel, VueScan does.

I am told that Vuescan can do this, but I am reluctant to try
it as I have heard a few reports on this group along the lines
of 'Vuescan broke my LS-2000'.

I've used my LS-2000 together with VueScan for many years, nothing
broke, scans were lovely.

Besides, I am not sure whether it's IR/scratch processing
would be as good as ICE. Anyone care to comment?

VueScan's "IR cleaning" of LS-2000 scans has impressed me with its
effectiveness and at the same time it leaves undamaged areas virtually
untouched. Results on other scanners may be different.

There is a caveat with scanning Kodachrome on any scanner with any
software though. The IR cannot penetrate silver, and Kodachrome can
have some residual silver left in the film. Those films will create
difficulties for any IR based dust and scratches removal technique.
VueScan still does its best to get around the issue (it used to be the
only software that did at least a decent job), but it can't be perfect
due to physics.

I use a different technique in those cases. Given the Raw scan with
the IR channel data, I let VueScan create two outputs (which are
perfectly aligned since they come from the same file). One output is
IR (partly over-)treated, and one isn't. Then by layering those in
Photoshop, it becomes relatively easy to remove the artifacts from
both layers and just use the best of both for the final blend.

Bart

 

[Paul]

I use a different technique in those cases. Given the Raw scan with
the IR channel data, I let VueScan create two outputs (which are
perfectly aligned since they come from the same file). One output is
IR (partly over-)treated, and one isn't. Then by layering those in
Photoshop, it becomes relatively easy to remove the artifacts from
both layers and just use the best of both for the final blend.

Bart

Bart's got it. VueScan is totally capable of this. I've scanned
thousands of frames with VueScan (on an LS-2000, no less, where did
this rumor come from about VueScan destroying LS-2000s?) and while
VueScan can be buggy, Ed does fix the bugs, eventually, on his frequent
release schedule. I have had much more efficiency and success driving
my LS-2000 wit VueScan than with NikonScan.

You certainly can have VueScan save a "raw" scan with minimal
adjustments along with its ICE IR channel, and you have the choice of
applying the IR later, automatically using VueScan, or manually in
Photoshop as Bart described.

 

[Ralf R. Radermacher]

I've used my LS-2000 together with VueScan for many years, nothing
broke, scans were lovely.

Same here. Consistently and without any trouble. Well, with the obvious
exception of the eternal dust on the mirror right in front of the lens.
But that isn't a software problem.

Ralf

 

[cubilcle281]

If you search Google groups for the words 'LS-2000' 'VueScan' and
'broke' there are a few articles from about 3-5 years ago, one was put
down to user error, the other broke the NikonScan software, not
hardware. I was sure I read something here a couple of months ago.

Sorry, my bad. Given the age of the LS-2000, any problems could have
been caused by an unrelated mechanical failure anyway...