Random crashes after adding RAM

[Joe Starin]

Hello, group: Pentium 4, 1.6 MHz Dell with Windows XP SP2. Had two sticks of
256 RAM for years with no problem (when I had ME). Replaced one of the 256s
with a new stick of 512 for a new total of 768 -- worked flawlessly for
months. But when I replaced that second 256 with another 512 for a new total
of 1024, I get random crashes. Ran a RAM test that said one of the 512s
might be bad, so I replaced it, but get the same random crashes. PC just
reboots without warning. I guess it could be another bad stick of RAM, or is
there something else I should check, like a setting? Thanks for any advice.
Joe Starin

 

[Harry Ohrn]

Have you reran the memory diagnostic? Or have you removed the new stick and
see if the crashes still occur. If not try swapping in the new stick and
removing the old and see what happens. Also check to ensure all connections
are solid. Sometimes when working inside a box a cable to a drive gets
wiggled loose. That can cause problems too.

 

[Joe Starin]

Thanks for the reply, Harry. I have not reran the memory diagnostic yet --
will do. I returned the known-bad 512 stick to the supplier and they
replaced it with this new one, which is giving me the identical crash
problem. One new 512 stick has been good through it all, regardless which
RAM I pair it with. It's when I add the second 512 stick -- that's when the
crashing occurs. BTW, the connections are solid, dust-free box, and the
system recognizes the full 1024. I was wonderful if some settings needed to
be changed on this older Dell Dimension 4300 when I boosted the RAM, and
could this be causing the first bad RAM readings and this crashing. Joe
Starin

Have you reran the memory diagnostic? Or have you removed the new stick
and see if the crashes still occur. If not try swapping in the new stick
and removing the old and see what happens. Also check to ensure all
connections are solid. Sometimes when working inside a box a cable to a
drive gets wiggled loose. That can cause problems too.

--

Harry Ohrn MS-MVP [Shell\User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp

Hello, group: Pentium 4, 1.6 MHz Dell with Windows XP SP2. Had two sticks
of 256 RAM for years with no problem (when I had ME). Replaced one of the
256s with a new stick of 512 for a new total of 768 -- worked flawlessly
for months. But when I replaced that second 256 with another 512 for a
new total of 1024, I get random crashes. Ran a RAM test that said one of
the 512s might be bad, so I replaced it, but get the same random crashes.
PC just reboots without warning. I guess it could be another bad stick of
RAM, or is there something else I should check, like a setting? Thanks
for any advice. Joe Starin

 

[Glen]

You need to try each stick on their own. If both are stable on their own the
problem may be with your motherboard/BIOS. See if there is a BIOS update
that addresses the issue. What motherboard do you have? Do you only have two
slots? Is the problem always with the memory in the same slot? That is, does
the fault follow a memory stick or a particular slot. From what you wrote it
looks like a slot fault as you say you took a stick back and swapped it
already. Are the sticks both same type, make, speed rating and so on. You
might find that your motherboard is temperamental about choice of memory.
Try getting two absolutely identical sticks. Make sure you are not
overclocking in any way and double check CAS latency.

--
Please repost if you find the fault

Glen P
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for the reply, Harry. I have not reran the memory diagnostic yet --
will do. I returned the known-bad 512 stick to the supplier and they
replaced it with this new one, which is giving me the identical crash
problem. One new 512 stick has been good through it all, regardless which
RAM I pair it with. It's when I add the second 512 stick -- that's when
the crashing occurs. BTW, the connections are solid, dust-free box, and
the system recognizes the full 1024. I was wonderful if some settings
needed to be changed on this older Dell Dimension 4300 when I boosted the
RAM, and could this be causing the first bad RAM readings and this
crashing. Joe Starin

Have you reran the memory diagnostic? Or have you removed the new stick
and see if the crashes still occur. If not try swapping in the new stick
and removing the old and see what happens. Also check to ensure all
connections are solid. Sometimes when working inside a box a cable to a
drive gets wiggled loose. That can cause problems too.

--

Harry Ohrn MS-MVP [Shell\User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp

Hello, group: Pentium 4, 1.6 MHz Dell with Windows XP SP2. Had two
sticks of 256 RAM for years with no problem (when I had ME). Replaced
one of the 256s with a new stick of 512 for a new total of 768 -- worked
flawlessly for months. But when I replaced that second 256 with another
512 for a new total of 1024, I get random crashes. Ran a RAM test that
said one of the 512s might be bad, so I replaced it, but get the same
random crashes. PC just reboots without warning. I guess it could be
another bad stick of RAM, or is there something else I should check,
like a setting? Thanks for any advice. Joe Starin

 

[Joe Starin]

Thanks for jumping in, Glen. I appreciate your time and suggestions.

Tested the 512x2 RAM for 3 hours (12 passes) using a Windows Memory
Diagnostic disk and it found no errors.

You need to try each stick on their own. If both are stable on their own the
problem may be with your motherboard/BIOS.

Yes, I need to pair the new 512 with a known-good 256 for a while and see
what happens

See if there is a BIOS update that addresses the issue.

I will, although the BIOS date below shows 06/27/2005, so maybe it's been
updated at some point? Contact Dell for this?

What motherboard do you have?

Belarc Advisor shows this info for the main circuit board (which is the
motherboad, right?)
Board: Dell Inc. 0X9238 Serial Number: .7MSTF81.CN1296158O6062.
Bus Clock: 133 megahertz
BIOS: Dell Inc. A07 06/27/2005

Do you only have two slots? Is the problem always with the memory in the
same slot? That is, does the fault follow a memory stick or a particular
slot? Looks like a slot fault as you say you took a stick back and swapped
it already.

Yes, that would seem logical. Just two two slots. I will keep track of the
slots as I further troubleshoot. Although both slots have been working
perfectly over the past four-five years with various RAM upgrades every
couple of years from 2x128 to 2x256 to 512+256. Never any RAM problems
problem until I added that second 512 stick.

Are the sticks both same type, make, speed rating and so on.

Yes, they appear to be exact. And I requested matching sticks when I made
the purchase. However, they are generic sticks from an eBay RAM vendor
(sells only RAM, from what I can see). He has an excellent feedback rating
covering some 16,000 items+ sold.

Make sure you are not overclocking in any way and double check CAS latency.

As the original owner, I have never overclocked this PC. Not sure how to
double check CAS latency, but will try.

Glen P

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for the reply, Harry. I have not reran the memory diagnostic
yet -- will do. I returned the known-bad 512 stick to the supplier and
they replaced it with this new one, which is giving me the identical
crash problem. One new 512 stick has been good through it all, regardless
which RAM I pair it with. It's when I add the second 512 stick -- that's
when the crashing occurs. BTW, the connections are solid, dust-free box,
and the system recognizes the full 1024. I was wonderful if some settings
needed to be changed on this older Dell Dimension 4300 when I boosted the
RAM, and could this be causing the first bad RAM readings and this
crashing. Joe Starin

Have you reran the memory diagnostic? Or have you removed the new stick
and see if the crashes still occur. If not try swapping in the new stick
and removing the old and see what happens. Also check to ensure all
connections are solid. Sometimes when working inside a box a cable to a
drive gets wiggled loose. That can cause problems too.

--

Harry Ohrn MS-MVP [Shell\User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp


Hello, group: Pentium 4, 1.6 MHz Dell with Windows XP SP2. Had two
sticks of 256 RAM for years with no problem (when I had ME). Replaced
one of the 256s with a new stick of 512 for a new total of 768 --
worked flawlessly for months. But when I replaced that second 256 with
another 512 for a new total of 1024, I get random crashes. Ran a RAM
test that said one of the 512s might be bad, so I replaced it, but get
the same random crashes. PC just reboots without warning. I guess it
could be another bad stick of RAM, or is there something else I should
check, like a setting? Thanks for any advice. Joe Starin

 

[Ron Martell]

Thanks for the reply, Harry. I have not reran the memory diagnostic yet --
will do. I returned the known-bad 512 stick to the supplier and they
replaced it with this new one, which is giving me the identical crash
problem. One new 512 stick has been good through it all, regardless which
RAM I pair it with. It's when I add the second 512 stick -- that's when the
crashing occurs. BTW, the connections are solid, dust-free box, and the
system recognizes the full 1024. I was wonderful if some settings needed to
be changed on this older Dell Dimension 4300 when I boosted the RAM, and
could this be causing the first bad RAM readings and this crashing. Joe
Starin

What are the exact specifications of the RAM modules, especially the
new 512 mb one that is causing the problems.

Check your RAM configuration settings in the BIOS setup. RAM
parameters should normally be set to "auto" or to "by spd". If you
have manual configured RAM settings for timing etc then this could
explain your difficulties.

Good luck

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP (1997 - 2006)
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

"Anyone who thinks that they are too small to make a difference
has never been in bed with a mosquito."

 

[Joe Starin]

Hi, Ron. I've never consciously changed any RAM settings in the BIOS, but
I'll check those as you suggested.

I've also read advice about adding a "vcache" line to system.ini. Not sure
if that applies to my situation, OS, etc.

Thanks for your advice, as always.

Joe Starin

 

[Joe Starin]

Just realized that I didn't answer your question, Ron.

Both new modules are: New 512MB PC133 SDRAM.
The modules that were replaced were: 256MB, SYNCH, 133MHz, CL3.

I was just in the BIOS but could not find anywhere to check/set RAM
parameters.
The only three entries under the memory information were:
Installed memory 1024 MB SDRAM
System Memory Speed 133MHz
AGP Aperture 256 MB

Again, I did not see anywhere I could change any memory settings.

Thanks for your help.

Joe

 

[Ron Martell]

Just realized that I didn't answer your question, Ron.

Both new modules are: New 512MB PC133 SDRAM.
The modules that were replaced were: 256MB, SYNCH, 133MHz, CL3.

I was just in the BIOS but could not find anywhere to check/set RAM
parameters.
The only three entries under the memory information were:
Installed memory 1024 MB SDRAM
System Memory Speed 133MHz
AGP Aperture 256 MB

Are the new modules also CL3 or do they have a different value?

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP (1997 - 2006)
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

"Anyone who thinks that they are too small to make a difference
has never been in bed with a mosquito."

 

[Phil Weldon]

'Joe Starin' wrote:
| Hello, group: Pentium 4, 1.6 MHz Dell with Windows XP SP2. Had two sticks
of
| 256 RAM for years with no problem (when I had ME). Replaced one of the
256s
| with a new stick of 512 for a new total of 768 -- worked flawlessly for
| months. But when I replaced that second 256 with another 512 for a new
total
| of 1024, I get random crashes. Ran a RAM test that said one of the 512s
| might be bad, so I replaced it, but get the same random crashes. PC just
| reboots without warning. I guess it could be another bad stick of RAM, or
is
| there something else I should check, like a setting? Thanks for any
advice.
_____

Your BIOS should run a simple memory test. Does that complete on all 1024
MBytes?
'Crucial', a memory module manufacturer that is part of the memory chip
fabricator 'Micron', has a memory selector at its web site. You should be
able to enter your Dell model number and see the suggested memory upgrades.
You don't need to BUY the new memory, just check if two 512 MByte sticks are
listed as a possibility. In addition, there is a lot of information on
memory and compatibility. The URL is
<http://www.crucial.com/> .

You might also try and find a memory test program that runs under DOS. It's
been a long time since I used one, so I won't recommend any, as I don't know
how trustworthy the possible sources are. Perhaps someone will have a
recommendation.

By the way, you most definitely have a hardware problem, not a Windows XP
problem, so posting to a hardware Usenet newsgroup might gather more help.

Phil Weldon

| Hello, group: Pentium 4, 1.6 MHz Dell with Windows XP SP2. Had two sticks
of
| 256 RAM for years with no problem (when I had ME). Replaced one of the
256s
| with a new stick of 512 for a new total of 768 -- worked flawlessly for
| months. But when I replaced that second 256 with another 512 for a new
total
| of 1024, I get random crashes. Ran a RAM test that said one of the 512s
| might be bad, so I replaced it, but get the same random crashes. PC just
| reboots without warning. I guess it could be another bad stick of RAM, or
is
| there something else I should check, like a setting? Thanks for any
advice.
| Joe Starin
|
|

 

[DanS]

Are the new modules also CL3 or do they have a different value?

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada

Another thing to check is that it is the right Logic RAM. Looking at teh
Dell page, it looks like there may be 2 different logic types, 64 x 64 & 64
x 72. It looks like a lot of the E-bay sellers also off a 64 x 4 (?).

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Hello, group: Pentium 4, 1.6 MHz Dell with Windows XP SP2. Had two sticks of
256 RAM for years with no problem (when I had ME). Replaced one of the 256s
with a new stick of 512 for a new total of 768 -- worked flawlessly for
months. But when I replaced that second 256 with another 512 for a new total
of 1024, I get random crashes. Ran a RAM test that said one of the 512s
might be bad, so I replaced it, but get the same random crashes. PC just
reboots without warning. I guess it could be another bad stick of RAM, or is
there something else I should check, like a setting? Thanks for any advice.
Joe Starin

It is absolutely essential that any new RAM module(s) be fully
compatible with both the motherboard and/or any other RAM module(s)
already in the system. Additionally, there are sometimes jumper
switches on older motherboards that need to be reset for new RAM
configurations. Consult your motherboard's manual or the manufacturer's
web site for specific instructions and compatibility requirements.

If you cannot lay your hands upon the computer's manual and the
manufacturer doesn't provide a support web site, Crucial Memory's web
site (www.crucial.com) has a database to help to find the right RAM for
your specific make and model computer and/or motherboard.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

 

[Joe Starin]

Ron, I pulled both 512s and checked -- no mention of CL anything on the
modules nor on the site where I bought the RAM. Thanks, Joe

 

[Joe Starin]

Thanks to all for the replies. I'm enjoying this discussion and actually
learning a lot about RAM. In case anyone is interested, here are some
findings:

I did vist the Crucial site as recommended by some of you who replied. The
site said my Dell 4300 would certainly handle 1024, and recommended two
different 512 modules. One was CL2 and the other CL3. Both were 64 meg x 64,
unbuffered, and non-parity (8 chips per module). (The original 256 modules
in my Dell was also of the non-parity, 8 chips type, so we're cool there.)

Now, on to my two 512 eBay purchases. Upon further inspection with a
magnifying glass, it appears that both modules may not be identical,
although they appear so, have identical numbers stamped on them, and have
identical PC133 SDRAM stickers on them. The one module bears the word
Elpida, and has chips made in China. The other module has no name, has
alternating chips made in both China and Malaysia, and has PC100 printed on
every chip, even though a sticker on the module says PC133 SDRAM. (Am I
getting duped here?)

Every known combination of my old Micron 256 modules and my new no-name 512
modules works EXCEPT when I install both 512s. The other generous advice
given in this thread is gratefully appreciated, and I will continue to
troubleshoot. Some of the advice is currently beyond my skill level, but I
can go one step at a time. Thanks for the great advice and interesting
discussion. Feel free to continue the thread.

Joe Starin

 

[Glen]

CAS latency will be shown by a CL2 or CL2.5 or CL3 something like that
either shown on the sticks which show their rating and\or shown on the
motherboard with how to set it. It may be shown in the advanced memory
timings section if the motherboard bios has one. Lower CL rating is faster
but requires better components. Generally higher CL rating (slower) give
better compatibility.
--
Please repost if you find the fault

Glen P
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for jumping in, Glen. I appreciate your time and suggestions.

Tested the 512x2 RAM for 3 hours (12 passes) using a Windows Memory
Diagnostic disk and it found no errors.

You need to try each stick on their own. If both are stable on their own
the problem may be with your motherboard/BIOS.

Yes, I need to pair the new 512 with a known-good 256 for a while and see
what happens

See if there is a BIOS update that addresses the issue.

I will, although the BIOS date below shows 06/27/2005, so maybe it's been
updated at some point? Contact Dell for this?

What motherboard do you have?

Belarc Advisor shows this info for the main circuit board (which is the
motherboad, right?)
Board: Dell Inc. 0X9238 Serial Number: .7MSTF81.CN1296158O6062.
Bus Clock: 133 megahertz
BIOS: Dell Inc. A07 06/27/2005

Do you only have two slots? Is the problem always with the memory in the
same slot? That is, does the fault follow a memory stick or a particular
slot? Looks like a slot fault as you say you took a stick back and swapped
it already.

Yes, that would seem logical. Just two two slots. I will keep track of
the slots as I further troubleshoot. Although both slots have been
working perfectly over the past four-five years with various RAM upgrades
every couple of years from 2x128 to 2x256 to 512+256. Never any RAM
problems problem until I added that second 512 stick.

Are the sticks both same type, make, speed rating and so on.

Yes, they appear to be exact. And I requested matching sticks when I made
the purchase. However, they are generic sticks from an eBay RAM vendor
(sells only RAM, from what I can see). He has an excellent feedback
rating covering some 16,000 items+ sold.

Make sure you are not overclocking in any way and double check CAS
latency.

As the original owner, I have never overclocked this PC. Not sure how to
double check CAS latency, but will try.

Glen P

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for the reply, Harry. I have not reran the memory diagnostic
yet -- will do. I returned the known-bad 512 stick to the supplier and
they replaced it with this new one, which is giving me the identical
crash problem. One new 512 stick has been good through it all,
regardless which RAM I pair it with. It's when I add the second 512
stick -- that's when the crashing occurs. BTW, the connections are
solid, dust-free box, and the system recognizes the full 1024. I was
wonderful if some settings needed to be changed on this older Dell
Dimension 4300 when I boosted the RAM, and could this be causing the
first bad RAM readings and this crashing. Joe Starin

Have you reran the memory diagnostic? Or have you removed the new stick
and see if the crashes still occur. If not try swapping in the new
stick and removing the old and see what happens. Also check to ensure
all connections are solid. Sometimes when working inside a box a cable
to a drive gets wiggled loose. That can cause problems too.

--

Harry Ohrn MS-MVP [Shell\User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp


Hello, group: Pentium 4, 1.6 MHz Dell with Windows XP SP2. Had two
sticks of 256 RAM for years with no problem (when I had ME). Replaced
one of the 256s with a new stick of 512 for a new total of 768 --
worked flawlessly for months. But when I replaced that second 256 with
another 512 for a new total of 1024, I get random crashes. Ran a RAM
test that said one of the 512s might be bad, so I replaced it, but get
the same random crashes. PC just reboots without warning. I guess it
could be another bad stick of RAM, or is there something else I should
check, like a setting? Thanks for any advice. Joe Starin